using Toad/Koopa for the 5 courses, because I am 95% certain that either of those two drivers will save a significant amount of time compared to Bowser, because of better turning (DP1) and much faster, and longer long boosts..
Is it proven that Koopa/Toad have better long boosts ? I just checked the NTSC World Records list, and the fastest laps are driven with Bowser/Donkey/Mario. F-laps in GP are usually a longboost fest, so you'd think players would use Koopa/Toad if there was a potential gain.
using Toad/Koopa for the 5 courses, because I am 95% certain that either of those two drivers will save a significant amount of time compared to Bowser, because of better turning (DP1) and much faster, and longer long boosts..
Is it proven that Koopa/Toad have better long boosts ? I just checked the NTSC World Records list, and the fastest laps are driven with Bowser/Donkey/Mario. F-laps in GP are usually a longboost fest, so you'd think players would use Koopa/Toad if there was a potential gain.
I was thinking princess or yoshi because they have better accell and better top speed than toad and koopa. They do turn slower though, but there aren't very demanding turns in mushroom cup. The acceleration would be great for MC2 after the grass lap skip.
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
In NTSC, the Long Boosts study hasnt been made yet. But it seems that yea the other characters dont show any benefits , so we keep playing with bowser/dk as they have the fastest normal speed.
In PAL, El Nico (registered in the PAL version of the GP site) , has made some studies about the Long boosts.
And it appeared that we could have Super Long boosts , with some special timing and with special characters.
Basically mario/luigi and koopa/toad are the characters that can have the fastest/longest Long Boosts. And as mario/luigi have a fastest normal speed than koopa/toad , we prefer to use them (as you can see with the pal champion records , florent lecoanet).
Of course its an advantage to use them only for course where there are a lot of Long boosts.
If the course is harder , then we can prefer koopa/toad also
But basically Mario/luigi are the best.
Only bowser/dk stay the best where there arent a lot of Long boosts and if the course is not too hard.
To get super long boosts , you have to trigger the shroom (or take an arrow) when your speed is in the red area.
Its also better to be quite far from the wall before jumping and hitting it (then releasing gas and keep pressing R) if you want to have a good long boost.
You need to have your speed increasing when you do that.
And also hitting direction while shrooming may damage the Long boost. So its better to push direction again only after you hit the wall.
hexediting in over Bowser Castle 1 (using Zefiris's tashex) makes it desync :(
It does the first lap of Mario Circuit 2 perfectly (even getting a mushroom), but it gets a bananaskin on the second lap and it all goes downhill from there.
Still, an advantage of using resets in this TAS is that I'm almost certain I could hex edit freely to/from them and the start/end of the TAS - in other words I'm pretty sure it would sync up fine if I redid Bowser Castle 1 AND Mario Circuit 2.
I think I'll complete everything first though, then maybe redo the first cup (maybe as mario).
Edit:
Wow, I've just been shown some unbelievable new tricks.
I believe this is from a Japanese TAS of match race mode
Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
I'm pretty sure those are vs. only tricks. I remember reading an article where the battle and vs. modes are glitchier than GP, and such things like this occur in those modes, but not gp.
If your going to do a rerun, here's some things I was thinking about.
For KB, you use a shroom by itself, no long boost to do a huge corner cut over a large section of water. Then the next lap you do a long boost and it ends a bit after that huge corner cut. I was wondering if you could use the long boost a bit later to include that corner cut a second time? That would be really neat if you could.
Then at the very end of KB you don't do the final corner cut over the little part of deep water, I know this corner cut saves lots of time, I'm suprised it wasn't used here. I was thinking the angles might have been too weird, but then if you redid the section before, perhaps with the long boosts idea above, to plan for that corner cut you could have a better angle.
In BC3 I’m sure everyone noticed you jump into the stone wall after making the big shortcut, twice. It seems very avoidable, so I think it must have been done for the feather. But then I wonder if you could do a smaller delay than that as there’s so many ways you could delay the progress up to that point. Such as, taking a slightly wider turn, or letting go of gas for a frame or two at some point before, perhaps well before so you’ll still be at top speed when you hit the question mark.
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
If your going to do a rerun, here's some things I was thinking about.
For KB, you use a shroom by itself, no long boost to do a huge corner cut over a large section of water. Then the next lap you do a long boost and it ends a bit after that huge corner cut. I was wondering if you could use the long boost a bit later to include that corner cut a second time? That would be really neat if you could.
Then at the very end of KB you don't do the final corner cut over the little part of deep water, I know this corner cut saves lots of time, I'm suprised it wasn't used here. I was thinking the angles might have been too weird, but then if you redid the section before, perhaps with the long boosts idea above, to plan for that corner cut you could have a better angle.
In BC3 I’m sure everyone noticed you jump into the stone wall after making the big shortcut, twice. It seems very avoidable, so I think it must have been done for the feather. But then I wonder if you could do a smaller delay than that as there’s so many ways you could delay the progress up to that point. Such as, taking a slightly wider turn, or letting go of gas for a frame or two at some point before, perhaps well before so you’ll still be at top speed when you hit the question mark.
It was to get the feather. I had to delay myself over 1.5 seconds on one lap.
I doubt moving at top speed at that point would have been preferable anyway, as it's immediately followed by a tough corner.
Kles wrote:
Can you link to the index page for this? I'd like to see more.
I don't know if there even is an index page.
You could try asking about it on the Super Mario Kart forum
So what do you think about my KB ideas?
Wow, 45 frames, that's a big delay, what crappy luck. So is the item just dependent on the frame count/race time? I wonder if through some small optimizations you could get to the feather sooner and save over 1.5 seconds. There could be big time to save with this sort of scenario.
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
So what do you think about my KB ideas?
Wow, 45 frames, that's a big delay, what crappy luck. So is the item just dependent on the frame count/race time? I wonder if through some small optimizations you could get to the feather sooner and save over 1.5 seconds. There could be big time to save with this sort of scenario.
well over 90 frames, actually (it's 60 fps), and I'd have to get to the feather over a second faster to get to the one before, and I just couldn't see how that was possible. I think improvements may be possible by better figuring out the pseudo-random number generator.
Hmm.. if you draw me a picture of what you mean on koopa beach, I think I'd be able to figure it out better.
(track maps are here: http://membres.lycos.fr/bunga/track-maps.html)
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
Yes, I see what you mean. On lap 5 I went around that bit of deep water as I had insufficient speed.
If I'd waited a bit longer before using my long-boost (or made the long boost last longer somehow), I could have skipped it like I did in laps 3 and 4.
I should keep a note of these possible improvements somewhere...
*EDIT* tested, and this works if you go wide enough, I hade to do a skip off the water but made it across fine.
Here's a wip:
http://students.washington.edu/blakep/other/KBsc.smv
Anyone know why when I try to set 7E0D71 to C0 it always sets it to 0 instead?
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
i used the 2nd controller exploit to start a 1 player race in 7th place rather than 8th. should this be acceptable for a TAS?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJUqbKlk83c
same deal as with the controller 2 stuff in megaman 3; people won't want to approve a run of it with that method unless you can make a run that does really cool-looking stuff (i.e. not just saving 2 frames or whatever) and loses a lot from being unable to use controller 2 (entertainment value here, mm3 runs lose a lot of time without controller 2 but everyone finds runs with it boring so they don't care)
The bust of least useful / most misleading topic (thread title) of day goes to…
Hint: What game? What console? Why is it in General forum? Is the use of glitches in TASes in general being questioned? What? Where? Why?
Joined: 8/1/2004
Posts: 2687
Location: Seattle, WA
It's for Super Mario Kart. When you play Grand Prix with one player, you start in 8th place (of 8). When you play Grand Prix with two players, first player starts in 7th, while second player starts in last. That gives 1p a few feet of bonus distance, but that's about it.
It's not a cheat or a glitch, it's just a tasteless workaround to saving a few frames each race.
well, controller 2 starts one place ahead as well as on the side of the track nearest the first turn, so you can have a tighter turn. it might save around .25 seconds.
And it appeared that we could have Super Long boosts , with some special timing and with special characters.
Basically mario/luigi and koopa/toad are the characters that can have the fastest/longest Long Boosts. And as mario/luigi have a fastest normal speed than koopa/toad , we prefer to use them (as you can see with the pal champion records , florent lecoanet).
Of course its an advantage to use them only for course where there are a lot of Long boosts.
If the course is harder , then we can prefer koopa/toad also
But basically Mario/luigi are the best.
Only bowser/dk stay the best where there arent a lot of Long boosts and if the course is not too hard.
To get super long boosts , you have to trigger the shroom (or take an arrow) when your speed is in the red area.
Its also better to be quite far from the wall before jumping and hitting it (then releasing gas and keep pressing R) if you want to have a good long boost.
You need to have your speed increasing when you do that.
And also hitting direction while shrooming may damage the Long boost. So its better to push direction again only after you hit the wall.
