Topic by Phil

Posted: 5/31/2007 12:25 AM

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Phil

Active player (410)

Joined: 3/16/2004
Posts: 2623
Location: America, Québec

but if the game is paused, it shouldn't lag. Is it different in SMB3 ?

Posted: 5/31/2007 2:27 AM

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Hina98

Joined: 3/15/2007
Posts: 131

Phil wrote:

but if the game is paused, it shouldn't lag. Is it different in SMB3 ?

No, he means that if on that frame you can't pause, then that frame is lagging. It's a good idea, theoretically, but I wonder if pausing the game would eliminate some of the lag that would otherwise be experienced normally?

Posted: 5/31/2007 2:41 AM

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Chamale

He/Him

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Joined: 10/20/2006
Posts: 1352
Location: Canada

No, I just mean he would find a way to eliminate that lag. I.E., kill all the enemies on screen or something like that.

Posted: 5/31/2007 3:12 AM

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Phil

Active player (410)

Joined: 3/16/2004
Posts: 2623
Location: America, Québec

Sorry, I misred :s. After reading again, it looks evident it's not when it is paused. I was busy TASing a game and read too quickly.

Posted: 5/31/2007 4:05 AM

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nitsuja

Emulator Coder, Skilled player (1300)

Joined: 12/21/2004
Posts: 2687

Chamale wrote:

In theory, if you press start on every single frame and it doesn't pause on some of those frames, it means that frame is lagging.

I can already see it lagging when Mario stays in the same place for two frames. Mostly it's that screen with the four koopas, especially when Mario jumps there, but the lag there is different depending on what happened earlier in the level. The clues I have left are:

falling through a block at full speed seems to give a slight boost forward, enough to save about a frame
the jump over the pirahna plant at the start could be faster by about a frame
scrolling the screen more seems to cause more lag
spending more time in the air might increase lag
covering up the P-meter sound effect with other sound effects might decrease lag
enemies seem to start in slightly different positions when the game lags
in theory I could let the P-meter go empty after getting the mushroom and reaching full speed, then use the same trick as in 1-2 to get to the goal without slowing down, but I didn't notice any lag frames after the mushroom
getting the mushroom optimally is extremely difficult and I think it must be possible to do better there. However, what I did there was somehow faster than what Genisto did, and I have not been able to repeat it.
jump height can controlled with extreme precision by releasing A before the height of the jump and then pressing A again within the next 4 or 5 frames, to jump higher than holding A for X frames and lower than holding A for X+1 frames.
Super Metroid style short-charge works in this game to charge the P-meter to full while moving a shorter distance than normal. But skidding sound effects might contribute to lag.

Posted: 5/31/2007 6:24 AM

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Kyrsimys

Former player

Joined: 4/16/2004
Posts: 1286
Location: Finland

nitsuja wrote:

Super Metroid style short-charge works in this game to charge the P-meter to full while moving a shorter distance than normal.

Wow, really? Is the distance radically shorter or just a little bit?

Posted: 5/31/2007 7:31 AM

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nitsuja

Emulator Coder, Skilled player (1300)

Joined: 12/21/2004
Posts: 2687

Only a little (between 4% and 7% less distance depending on when you start measuring), but it could be enough to make a difference somewhere. It's not quite enough to get a full P-meter before having to jump over the goomba at the start of 1-1, unfortunately. EDIT: demonstration

Posted: 6/2/2007 9:09 AM

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MikeRS

Joined: 1/21/2006
Posts: 117

Hey I just had a thought, and I couldn't find anything about it on the last few pages of this thread (actually it surprises me). Would anyone want a 100% SMB3 completion video? Though defining "100%" itself in this game would have to be thought about. We could take the New Super Mario Bros. way and count all warp pipes (on the map) for it, but that would be far too boring and imo pointless. Besides all the numbered levels, how much of the rest of the game should be done? Include the warp-whistle in World 2 or not, or even several optional non-numbered stages (the pihrana plant thing in World 7 comes to mind . . .).

Posted: 6/2/2007 10:17 AM

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alden

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Joined: 2/11/2007
Posts: 1522

Plus all the treasure ships, the canoe in world 3, and make it two player and play every vs game :)

I make a comic with no image files and you should read it. While there is a lower class, I am in it, and while there is a criminal element I am of it, and while there is a soul in prison, I am not free. -Eugene Debs

Posted: 6/2/2007 12:28 PM

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Chamale

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Joined: 10/20/2006
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Well, it is an interesting thought... Suppose some guy knows a bug in SMB to accelerate Mario to double speed. Now, his favourite level in SMB3 is 1-4, for example. He looks around for a published run that beats it. If he finds it, he'll register and post, and eventually make a comment in SMB along the lines of "You know this, right?" But if he DOESN'T find the video, maybe he won't register and we'll lose a great trick. Plus there's the sheer WTF value of doing everything in the game faster than most people can win with warps.

Posted: 6/2/2007 6:46 PM

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MikeRS

Joined: 1/21/2006
Posts: 117

Well, I doubt many people take over 50 minutes to beat the game with warps, maybe they'd take around half and hour, but still... For a 100% run, we should probably discuss what we need to play. Obviously all the numbered levels are included, but after that it's unclear what should be done, especially since the game doesn't have a in-game percentage to base it on (does the SNES version have one? The GBA version has something almost like it..). I wouldn't do any of the mini-games that pop up based on your playing (treasure ship, N-Spade game, etc), and not any of the silly stuff like the three rows of spinning pictures; avoid things like hammer bros (on the map). Besides a 100% run, we can use nitsuja's trick to improve both runs on this site. Let's see if we can get a sub-10 min run :)

Posted: 6/2/2007 7:01 PM

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Kyrsimys

Former player

Joined: 4/16/2004
Posts: 1286
Location: Finland

MikeRS wrote:

Besides a 100% run, we can use nitsuja's trick to improve both runs on this site. Let's see if we can get a sub-10 min run :)

You shouldn't reply to a thread unless you have read it. Even with the tricks he listed, nitsuja hasn't found a way to really improve Genisto's movie at all. How do you suggest we cut 34 seconds off? As for a 100% run, IMO all Hammer Bros. and Piranha Plant levels etc should be completed. Anything with monsters/pits/anything that can kill you should be considered a level. Toad houses, spades and memory games should of course be skipped.

Posted: 6/2/2007 7:14 PM

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Chamale

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Joined: 10/20/2006
Posts: 1352
Location: Canada

I consider a mini game to be a "level" in a way. I mean, the 16 star Mario 64 run is called "16 star", not "14 star, 1 Toad freebie and 1 Bowser red coin" mario 64 run, right? A minigame completed amazingly fast is very entertaining, and doesn't slow down a run much.

Posted: 6/2/2007 7:42 PM

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MikeRS

Joined: 1/21/2006
Posts: 117

Kyrsimys wrote:

You shouldn't reply to a thread unless you have read it. Even with the tricks he listed, nitsuja hasn't found a way to really improve Genisto's movie at all. How do you suggest we cut 34 seconds off?

Excuse me for not having read this thread since its first post, but I haven't seen anything in the past few pages to the extent of "Despite finding faster methods in the game, it still ends up being exactly as fast as Genisto's run". Besides, I didn't mean I thought that sub-10m was possible, but it would be pretty cool.

As for a 100% run, IMO all Hammer Bros. and Piranha Plant levels etc should be completed. Anything with monsters/pits/anything that can kill you should be considered a level. Toad houses, spades and memory games should of course be skipped.

Makes sense. That will probably be how it'll go -- World 1 should be fairly straight forward, but in most of the other worlds, an optimal map-route should probably be planned out. Maybe I should watch the warpless run for some ideas :)

Posted: 6/2/2007 7:43 PM

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Bag_of_Magic_Food

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Joined: 5/29/2004
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Only do a minigame if you need the item you get from it. That's what I say.

put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude

Posted: 6/3/2007 9:16 PM

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MikeRS

Joined: 1/21/2006
Posts: 117

Ugh, is it possible to get a full P-meter after the first pipe in 1-2 as small Mario? He seems to lose speed faster than Super Mario when travelling up hill. :/ I figured it'd be faster to go through 1-1 the nitsuja way without power-ups, go through 1-2 without them either. Then I either run through 1-3 without powerups and get a mushroom in 1-4 (auto-scroller), or a mushroom in 1-3 then get raccoon Mario in 1-4 (I like the first option better since it'd probably be quicker). Or maybe it would be faster entirely to just get the power-up in 1-1 and avoid the whole mess :x

Posted: 6/3/2007 10:09 PM

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nitsuja

Emulator Coder, Skilled player (1300)

Joined: 12/21/2004
Posts: 2687

MikeRS wrote:

Ugh, is it possible to get a full P-meter after the first pipe in 1-2 as small Mario? He seems to lose speed faster than Super Mario when travelling up hill. :/

I haven't tested it on slopes, but I don't think small Mario is slower than Super Mario. But getting a full P-meter in 1-2 is a waste of time anyway.

Posted: 6/3/2007 10:25 PM

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AngerFist

Active player (432)

Joined: 4/21/2004
Posts: 3517
Location: Stockholm, Sweden

nitsuja wrote:

I haven't tested it on slopes, but I don't think small Mario is slower than Super Mario. But getting a full P-meter in 1-2 is a waste of time anyway.

How is it going by the way? Did you find that frame you really wanted to somehow find? Your WIP was excellent.

Nitrogenesis wrote:

Guys I come from the DidyKnogRacist communite, and you are all wrong, tihs is the run of the mileniun and everyone who says otherwise dosnt know any bater! I found this run vary ease to masturbate too!!!! Don't fuck with me, I know this game so that mean I'm always right!StupedfackincommunityTASVideoz!!!!!!

Arc wrote:

I enjoyed this movie in which hands firmly gripping a shaft lead to balls deep in multiple holes.

natt wrote:

I don't want to get involved in this discussion, but as a point of fact C# is literally the first goddamn thing on that fucking page you linked did you even fucking read it

Cooljay wrote:

Mayor Haggar and Cody are such nice people for the community. Metro City's hospitals reached an all time new record of incoming patients due to their great efforts :P

Posted: 6/3/2007 10:50 PM

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MikeRS

Joined: 1/21/2006
Posts: 117

http://www.sendspace.com/file/ins10p (Microstorage not working atm) Through 1-2, and copied nitsuja's 1-1 opening. I really don't like how 1-2 is played, especially the slow beginning. Some experimentation and I couldn't really see if I can apply the same opening 1-1 trick to 1-2, but it seems to work best on flat ground. I'm going to try re-doing World 1-1 with obtaining a mushroom, and that'll probably let me finish 1-2 much quicker. This is far too slow compared to Genisto's run to be acceptable.

Posted: 6/4/2007 12:39 AM

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nitsuja

Emulator Coder, Skilled player (1300)

Joined: 12/21/2004
Posts: 2687

AngerFist wrote:

Did you find that frame you really wanted to somehow find?

No, not yet.

MikeRS wrote:

Through 1-2, and copied nitsuja's 1-1 opening. I really don't like how 1-2 is played, especially the slow beginning.

Your WIP has a lot of problems: - The 1-1 opening you copied was a demonstration not aiming for speed. - The hammer bros movement costs you too much time on the map screen. - Your 1-2 was extremely slow, try the method I posted here instead. Also, I don't know why you're blaming not having a mushroom for not being able to go as fast as Genisto did.

Posted: 6/4/2007 12:50 AM

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MikeRS

Joined: 1/21/2006
Posts: 117

Thanks, I'll have to play around a bit more. I'm still getting used to how this game works, in the sense of controlling it in a TAS (I've been playing it for years... <_<)

Posted: 6/4/2007 1:15 AM

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nitsuja

Emulator Coder, Skilled player (1300)

Joined: 12/21/2004
Posts: 2687

You'll want to use FCEU 0.98.16 and use memory watch on these addresses too. It will make your life a lot easier to know exactly how fast you're going and understand what makes the P-meter go up instead of guessing all the time. off topic: The post I just linked to is not at the top of its page. I wish more people would realize they can do this instead of linking to something several posts before the post they are talking about.

Posted: 6/4/2007 1:18 AM

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NrgSpoon

Joined: 6/14/2004
Posts: 646

I just beat Mario 3 on my NES a few minutes ago. Without a Game Genie. Just thought you all might like to know.

I like my "thank you"s in monetary form.

Posted: 6/4/2007 1:31 AM

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MikeRS

Joined: 1/21/2006
Posts: 117

Umm.... good for you? I've never even had a Game Genie, and I've beaten the game several times.

Posted: 6/5/2007 7:21 PM

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HHS

Active player (282)

Joined: 10/8/2006
Posts: 356

I remember a time when I went down the pipe in 5-3 with the shoes on, and somehow I went down through the right side of the pipe and didn't come out on the screen below, but could move horizontally. When the time was up the game froze. I wonder how that happened.