Patashu
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chiptune95 wrote:
Hello. I thought it would be interesting to do a "small only" run of Super Mario Bros. 3. What do you think?
Would it be warps, warpless or all levels?
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Warps. I've already started the run, but I quickly dropped xD (already we can't take the flute who's in the castle of world 1, because we must steal, so we have to go to world 2, to take the flute kept by fire bro, and after, go to the world 3 to take the cloud, because we can't do the castle of world 8 as small mario, so we must pass with the cloud)
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It's impossible to beat the game without the B button. For a warped run you can beat the game if you use B to use items with from the inventory. Though no way to beat it warpless. There was an old TAS who started and ended all levels as small Mario, though upgrades were allowed to be taken within the level. A warped run can be done if you get the second flute in World 2. Though warpless is impossible because of 7-Fort 1.
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Yes, so a "small only" TAS of SMB 3 is possible
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Where is it first impossible to beat the game without the B button? Is there a jump in a particular level or something that cannot be cleared? Also, if a warped run is possible using only B to open the inventory, then it might be a better idea to do a warped B-less run on SMA4 (GBA), where L opens the inventory. This would just be to make the run definition absolutely clear as "never presses B at all" instead of "only presses B outside of levels" which is a tad arbitrary.
Tompa
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The levels you can't be finished without B are: 2-Pyramid: Have to destroy the blocks which requires either B for the tail of B to carry a shell, can't glitch through. 6-5: Though not needed to beat, it can't be finished without flying and use B. 7-Fort 1: Can be skipped with a cloud, impossible ti beat without flying. 7-9: Can be skipped with cloud. Need to pick up blocks or glitch through wall. *7-F2. Doable, but you'll need a leaf. And you an skip it with a cloud. I don't think I've missed any at least. So the only level you can't get past is the Pyramid, as there are no clouds up to world 2.
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Tompa wrote:
The levels you can't be finished without B are: 2-Pyramid: Have to destroy the blocks which requires either B for the tail of B to carry a shell, can't glitch through. 6-5: Though not needed to beat, it can't be finished without flying and use B. 7-Fort 1: Can be skipped with a cloud, impossible ti beat without flying. 7-9: Can be skipped with cloud. Need to pick up blocks or glitch through wall. *7-F2. Doable, but you'll need a leaf. And you an skip it with a cloud. I don't think I've missed any at least. So the only level you can't get past is the Pyramid, as there are no clouds up to world 2.
And you need B to use clouds, I think.
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I'm assuming we're referring to using B inside of levels. And if not, then in SMA4 you use L to open the inventory, so we could just go with that. You can fly with the P-Wing without B. What's so special about the corners in the Pyramid that make them impossible to glitch through? I'm interested.
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I also want to know why you can't get through those walls. I haven't been able to at least, but I would love to see it being done.
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I read an article about this. It's actually because the level has slopes in it. All levels with slopes in them have different terrain detection. The first difference is that you get ejected upwards instead of to the right, and you get ejected upwards VERY FAST. This stops you from glitching through slopes. The check for Mario landing is only performed when his vertical velocity is downwards, so Mario cannot land if he is still rising from a jump. If Mario were to rise slower than a slope, he would go into the slope, so to correct this, the game ejects Mario upwards. (It also prevents Mario running from a flat portion of ground into the body of an upward slope for more than 1 frame) The second difference is about standing on the corners of blocks. Mario can stand on the corner of a block if and only if he is in a level without slopes. Normally, Mario can stand in such a way that his center is off the side of the block and only the very edge of his graphic is touching the block, allowing him to seemingly stand in midair sometimes. However, in levels with slopes, Mario's center has to be on the block, and we get a few less pixels of extra movement. This has to do with the fact that it allows Mario to run from a flat portion of ground, to a downward slope seamlessly without running off the edge into the air, and falling onto the slope. Without the ability to stand on the very edge of a block, we lose the ability to do a walljump. With the ejection upwards instead of to the right, we lose the ability to fall through blocks (because it will push you upwards, back on top of the block.) Reference: "Programming M.C. Kids" (Under: Terrain) http://games.greggman.com/game/programming_m_c__kids/ This article describes terrain detection from a programmer's point of view and makes several references to Mario 3.
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Very interesting; I had no idea. It makes perfect sense now though. I have a question though: Do the special physics only apply to the slopes/terrain themselves, or do they also apply to bricks and stuff in the level? For example, I get that it is impossible to make a walljump off of any of the "slope-like" terrain, that is, the terrain that appears to be made up of those checkered triangles. However, if there were say a large structure made of breakable bricks in the level, would it be possible to walljump off that structure?
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andymac wrote:
It's actually because the level has slopes in it. All levels with slopes in them have different terrain detection.
As stated, that would mean that a level with slopes uses different rules for collision detection regardless of whether or not slopes are actually involved. Which actually isn't implausible -- slopes can interact with other objects in weird ways, so it's not unreasonable to require special handling for all collisions even if a slope isn't obviously involved.
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I'm asking because of the scenarios in the below image: At left, Mario is able to stand on the very edge of a floor in a normal level. This is what enables walljumps. In a sloped level, Mario cannot do this; instead his center must be on a floor to stand on it. This is so Mario can properly run from a flat floor onto a downhill slope without seemingly floating in midair for a fraction of a second in between. However, doesn't this also mean that on a flat "cliff" as seen to the right, Mario will fall through the edge of the floor once his center is no longer on the flat top?
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Zowaix: yes, that's exactly what it means. You either get one or two less pixels to stand on. The terrain detection for all tiles in a level with slopes (not just the sloes themselves) are changed. I think I checked this at one point actually. I could be wrong though...
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Is it possible in a sloped level to get partially into a ceiling and get ejected upwards through it?
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There is a place in Mario adventure where that happens, and it's in the movie. I think this should definitely be tested. However, I have a hunch that Mario will need his feet in the ceiling in order to get ejected upwards.
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andymac wrote:
Zowaix: yes, that's exactly what it means. You either get one or two less pixels to stand on. The terrain detection for all tiles in a level with slopes (not just the sloes themselves) are changed. I think I checked this at one point actually. I could be wrong though...
I have noticed that this behavior only applies to the level terrain. Blocks and pipes still have the old clipping behavior, even in levels with slopes.
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What kind of blocks? If blocks still had the old clipping behavior, surely, you could wall clip through 2-P instead of having to destroy the blocks. If a pipe is next to a wall in a level with a slope, then we may be able to see some interesting clipping behavior. (try clipping into the pipe near the end of P-2, near the upward slope, or just after the last wall.)
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Glitchman: Are you still working on the run? Haven't heard anything about it lately... Not sure if he'll even read this, but hey =).
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GlitchMan, I want your runs of this game and MM6! HEY
Patashu
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An innovative fastest 99 lives TAS :) Link to video
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That's not the fastest method, nor was it intended to be. That run was made primarily as a joke to poke fun at someone who made a similar run a few months ago and said it was probably the fastest way to get 99 lives, only to have someone else make a 99 lives run the next day using a much faster method.
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Patashu wrote:
An innovative fastest 99 lives TAS :) Link to video
It might not be fastest, but I've always admired the way Genisto gets 99 lives in the SMB 3 playaround at world 6. Speaking of which, I've remembered some user posting a bunch of new tricks and glitches to this thread. Maybe someone can make a new playaround featuring them?
Tompa
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ProDucks just found this glitch: http://www.mediafire.com/download/8eaii2wfdmwvw4b/Super_Mario_Bros_3_glitch.bkm Hasn't really got a use but it could be use for fun in autoscrollers =).
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Wow, that's a pretty crazy coincidence...I've been working on the SMB3 walkathon again and independently discovered the same glitch a week or two ago. When the glitch activates, Mario can run/jump on air for a certain time, then he falls no matter where he is...I think somehow Mario's y position gets overwritten by that of a wrench. Sadly, no obvious use apart from entertainment...I also encountered this on the ship, haven't tried on other auto's.

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