For those who played Moonstone, what goal combination would it make the most sense to TAS?
- Control 1 vs all 4 knights?
- any% or 100% (all gauntlets + dragon)
- 100% items or low%
The RNG aspect is of special concern to me, as item (key) location plays a huge role. And it's so hard to check for (one doesnt have a crystal ball at the beginning to quickly analyze the initial setup).
Would a less than ideal RNG roll be acceptable for sub?
Id really like to TAS this game but the complexity is so daunting
I would say that control 1 knight and any% makes most sense, because that is how most people play the game. Playing with 4 knights is comparable to making a cooperative TAS in Doom with 4 players. 4-player run is of course very interesting, but more rare and exotic? Maybe 100% run would make more sense as a 4-player run?
No, wait, maybe it is better to control 4 knights to complete the game faster? 4-players makes tasing easier because you don't need to manipulate enemy movements.
No, wait, maybe enemy knight can bring us some key item fast because their action scenes are skipped?
No, wait, maybe a 2-player run is the fastest? Oh, it is more complex than I thought...
I would say anything goes!
> Would a less than ideal RNG roll be acceptable for sub?
I think it is impossible to prove that some RNG setup is optimal, so I would say that anything goes. Maybe the Moonstone speedrunners can help find some good RNG?
> Id really like to TAS this game but the complexity is so daunting
Me too. The game is amazing, but out of my league technically. I think for any% the initial key item locations is the hardest part, so if you can figure it out the rest of the TAS will be relatively easy and can be done in sub 5 minutes.
I think 100%/low% items is not interesting because most items are meaningless. 100% kills makes more sense, i.e. clearing all lairs and killing the dragon and rival knights (unless we control all 4 knights which we probably do). I think the optimal initial RNG for 100% run is literally impossible to find, ever. The difference between the best and average RNG is probably not much timewise, anyway.
TL;DR Most sensical combination: Control any number of knights and any%.
Would a less than ideal RNG roll be acceptable for sub?
As far as I’m concerned, an otherwise visibly optimal run should be acceptable. No run should be rejected only because it’s suspected that better RNG might be possible.
If there is indeed a better RNG than what you submit, it would likely take a new movie to prove; otherwise the potential improvement is just theoretical and not something we’d reject for. In a case where a better RNG was possible, known, and known how to make happen, we’d obviously want the more optimal option.
Just make sure to mention in your submission notes as to what extent you tested RNG variations. That will both help a judge and other users who may want to try and better the run.
Bottom line; if the run looks optimal to a casual viewer, it’s up to a different author (or yourself) to prove your submission sub-optimal by submitting their own improved version. This is not the judge’s responsibility.
Thank you guys for your inputs, they helped quite a lot in deciding this. I managed to find out the right category and finished the TAS using the new Amiga core. I'll be submitting this as soon as the core becomes acceptable.
By popular demand (?)
Link to video
This is any%, controlling all 4 knights
I got GOD rng for the key placements and even the sword of sharpness. Moonstone phase RNG wasn't so good, but it was just a matter of waiting a few days.
The RNG looks better than what I thought was possible. The monster slaying looks flawless too.
Why not walk right with the blue knight to die faster?
yeah, I couldn't believe the RNG myself. Unfortunately I cannot manip blue knight since the joystick 2 is not currently supported in the emulator core.
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eien86 wrote:
alexheights1 wrote:
The RNG looks better than what I thought was possible. The monster slaying looks flawless too.
Why not walk right with the blue knight to die faster?
yeah, I couldn't believe the RNG myself. Unfortunately I cannot manip blue knight since the joystick 2 is not currently supported in the emulator core.
I wonder if it will desync if the core is rebuilt to allow changing the input device.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
The RNG looks better than what I thought was possible. The monster slaying looks flawless too.
Why not walk right with the blue knight to die faster?
yeah, I couldn't believe the RNG myself. Unfortunately I cannot manip blue knight since the joystick 2 is not currently supported in the emulator core.
I wonder if it will desync if the core is rebuilt to allow changing the input device.
By the way, could you please explain how you manipulated the RNG? The video itself does not reveal anything about it. It looks like you start the game and magically have perfect RNG, lol.
By the way, could you please explain how you manipulated the RNG? The video itself does not reveal anything about it. It looks like you start the game and magically have perfect RNG, lol.
Once in a lifetime you get so lucky it cannot be even explained. And, instead of using that luck in winning the lottery, I wasted it in this TAS
TLDR: I did nothing to manip the RNG
