Joined: 4/20/2005
Posts: 2160
Location: Norrköping, Sweden
There are two things that I still have to have in the run everyday, no matter what theme the day is, and that is that I have to get a perfect delivery every day (in order to get the best ending), and that I have to have top speed throughout the whole day (to achieve fastest time). So slowing down or breaking a subscriber's window, no matter how tempting, is not possible. :P
I'll go for "Wrecking day", mainly because I started doing that today, and I don't want to redo the first part again, but also because I want to viewer to get caught in the movie as soon as possible. If the first level they see seems "boring" (aka Lawful day), without too much happening, they might stop watching after Monday, thinking that the movie looks boring.
I like you arrangement idea for the days, but you could also look at it the other way, that the paperboy gains experience the more he delivers, and in the end is very calm and proffessional. :)
In any case, I'm working on Monday right now. For some reason I had some misfortune with the paper refills somehow, which is weird because they appeared on different places in the first WIP. :S It would be nice to understand that random factos. This doesn't affect the speed or anything, it's just that I have to spare my papers for deliveies, so I can't destroy as many things...
I'll see if I can have the new Monday up sometime today or tomorrow.
It would be even more interesting if he rode on the other side of the street on "Lawful day". It would also make some sense, since they always tell you in school not to ride against the flow of traffic (or maybe that was just my parents; I dunno).
I like your idea Randil, starting on "Wrecking day" and going from there, making it seem as if the Paperboy gets better with experience. It's going to be really cool.
I watched your last WIP (the one you put up before starting over again, you took it to Thursday and stopped) and it was great, I love how you just ride over people's lawns and stuff. I can't wait to see what you do with "Wrecking day" hehe.
Oh, and thanks. It's great to be back. :)
Guybrush: "I'm selling these fine leather jackets."
Wally: "Really?"
Guybrush: "No. I 'm lying."
Wally: "In that case, I don't want one!"
Currently working on:
Nothing at the moment.
Joined: 8/1/2004
Posts: 2687
Location: Seattle, WA
I can't believe I never noticed this thread was alive again. I blame the IRC room for not mentioning it to me.
I'm very excited to see your work so far, Randil.
Joined: 4/20/2005
Posts: 2160
Location: Norrköping, Sweden
Monday is done now.
There isn't much to comment. When there weren't any red houses to throw papers at between the refills, I threw more than one paper to each subscriber, instead of not throwing any at all. Other than that, I tried to keep this entertaining, and destroyed as many things as I could without breaking the perfect delivery goal.
Since I have 7 days to play, but only have 5 playing strategies, I think I'll do the week like this:
Monday: Wrecking day
Tuesday: Wrecking day
Wednesday: Window crashing day
Thursday: Window crashing day
Friday: Daredevil day
Saturday: Assaulting day
Sunday: Lawful day.
I chose this because the strategies will get "nicer", and less mean... So that it looks like paperboy really knows his job by the end of the run. :)
All comments are of course welcome. If you have a new playing strategy I could use, please tell me. It would be nice to have 2 more strategies, that way I can have one per day.
Unless someone protests, I'll play Tuesday as a Wrecking day too. Next WIP should be up in a few days.
Wow very nice. I love how despite the fact that you break their windows and stuff they still resubscribe lol. Great job man.
Your strategy seems good to me.
Tailz wrote:
It would be even more interesting if he rode on the other side of the street on "Lawful day". It would also make some sense, since they always tell you in school not to ride against the flow of traffic (or maybe that was just my parents; I dunno).
That was before I realized that there is no other side of the street! D'OH!
Guybrush: "I'm selling these fine leather jackets."
Wally: "Really?"
Guybrush: "No. I 'm lying."
Wally: "In that case, I don't want one!"
Currently working on:
Nothing at the moment.
Joined: 4/20/2005
Posts: 2160
Location: Norrköping, Sweden
Tuesday is done now.
Another "Wrecking day". I had some "bad luck" at one place on this day, I got two refills too close to each other, so I couldn't use up all my papers for that refill. Besides that, there isn't much to comment on. Just enjoy the show. :)
All comments and questions are very welcome, and if there aren't any, I'll just continue on with "Window crashing day".
This is good. I can see that the majority will probably find it entertaining to some extent. Although, I feel there will be some harsh critics that would prefer something else. Like different goals or all together another paperboy game like number 2 or one from another console. Have you considered the other paperboy games?
I'd like to apologize for not saying this stuff sooner and that I support really any paperboy run.
Joined: 4/20/2005
Posts: 2160
Location: Norrköping, Sweden
Thanks for you comments, VANDAL. I can see your point, and let me comment on what I think about this subject. :P
I think that timewise, this run is very,very close to frameperfect, and will stay that way. There is a possibility that I've encountered small amounts of lag, but that probably sums up to only about 10 frames at most. Unless someone finds a big glitch or some other weird timesaver, this is as fast as this game can be completed.
Speaking of fastest completion, do you think it's a good idea to play the training course at the end of Sunday? It would add time to the run, but in some way, I think it could be entertaining to at least play through the training course once. What are your opinions on this?
Should the mejority disagree with the goals for this run, I think that they would want a maximum score instead. But as I discussed with adelikat earlier, that perhaps a maximum score run wouldn't be very interesting. It would just mean throwing 3 papers at a time to every mailbox. In any case, if most people want a maximum score run, I'll just make one of those instead. TASing this game doesn't take too long time, really, so it would be allright. :)
And if they demand a TAS of another Paperboy game, I'll look into making one. Though I think that most people will prefer this one, due to it being "the original", kind of like why the SMB-games for NES are preferred over the ones from Super Mario All-stars.
If anyone reads this, and has something against my idea with playing every stage differently, please let me know! I would feel silly if I submit this and it gets immediately rejected for havign bad goals.
In any case, if anyone who disagrees with the goals I have reads this, please, do say so! I would feel silly to submit a run that gets rejected for having bad goals. Especially when I've posted WIPs in the thread so that people can see and say what they think. I think that by having the goals I have, I make this run more interesting. And besides, I do aim for "fastest completion time" anyway, so my main goal is still in the spirit of speedrunning. :D
Since this run is pretty much as fast as possible, I think that doing the training course on Sunday would be inconsistent. If you were doing it on each day then it would make more sense.
But because you have different goals for each day, the run also would be deemed inconsistent, in that sense. So maybe you should, for the hell of it, do the training course on Sunday.
It's your run, you do what you feel is best because there will probably be a revision after seeing everyone's reactions when it's done and submitted.
Because you have reasoning for your goals, I think everyone could see it your way, otherwise what else can be done in this run?
A little bit of encouragement:
You're doing great justice to this game with your run so please do keep it up, I'm enjoying it every step of the way :)
Emulator Coder, Site Developer, Site Owner, Expert player
(3599)
Joined: 11/3/2004
Posts: 4739
Location: Tennessee
I like this new run much better. I think this will turn out to be a publishable run (though pretty average).
1) What is up with holding up+down? does that do anything? Also, are you putting up on auto-hold? That would probably make the TAS process a lot easier
2) DEFINATELY BEYOND A SHADOW OF A DOUBT do the training course on sunday. This is %50 of the game and it would be a shame to not represent it at all. by putting it on sunday it become kind of a bonus scene or something. You COULD have ended input by now but you want to show off one more thing.
3) I like that you play with death more and show off things like running over the dog house. In the later days, focus on destroying a more variety of things. Anything that can be destroyed or hit should be hit at least once at some point. Smack the grim reaper with a paper with a paper even though it doesn't "hurt" him or give you any points :)
4) Good, luck
Joined: 4/25/2004
Posts: 615
Location: The Netherlands
Well, the traininggounds really is just a detour. Aiming for the fastest time should be just that, aiming for the fastest time. But that's just my humble oppinion :)
Btw, at the end of each day it seems as if you died. Are you really just dying to avoid the extra course? (I seem to remember days are ended with a crosscountrycourse)
If you really die to avoid these I vote to include these courses.
The run looks good and since I'm not very familiar with game mechanics I won't bother asking why not all of the papers are used before a refill is gotten.
Joined: 4/20/2005
Posts: 2160
Location: Norrköping, Sweden
Up+down makes me go forward without my wheels turning. This is just a visual glitch, and it doesn't affect my speed in any way. I do have this put on autohold too, so it makes recording a lot easier. :)
I think I'll play the training course once, on Sunday. It will probably be fun to show off on that course at least once.
About destroying a more variety of things, I personally think I did a pretty good job destroying things on Monday and Tuesday. On "Assaulting day" I'll make sure I hit all those skateboarders and reapers, don't you worry! :D
qFox wrote:
Well, the traininggounds really is just a detour. Aiming for the fastest time should be just that, aiming for the fastest time.
qFox wrote:
Btw, at the end of each day it seems as if you died. Are you really just dying to avoid the extra course? (I seem to remember days are ended with a crosscountrycourse)
If you really die to avoid these I vote to include these courses.
Hmm, I seem to get mixed messages here... Do you want me to play the training grounds or not? You are right that I die to avoid playing the training ground after each day. As you realize, this saves loads of time, many seconds per day. So if I should aim for "fastest time" I should really skip these. The reason why I'm thinking about playing it on sunday is to, like adelikat stated in his post, at least show of once how to play the training ground flawlessly. And besides, the game is basically beaten by the time I do play the training ground, I just who this off to show the audience one last thing before I end input. Should people really dislike this choise, I could just redo the very end of the movie and die like the other days instead.
And thanks for the encouragement guys, I'll see if I can do Wednesday tomorrow or so. :)
Joined: 4/25/2004
Posts: 615
Location: The Netherlands
I understand the mixed message. Let me try to clarify.
Dying is "not done" in tas. There are quite some (popular) games in which dying to save time is a highly debated topic.
If you could skip the bonus without dying then go for it, but I'll prefer a run without dying over a run that does feature death any time...
The deaths do not count, it's as if he failed the training course so it does not affect the number of lives. It's considered much faster to fail the training course (as you've stated) otherwise we'd see it done a multiple number of times. I actually find it kind of funny, him running into the curb like a dumbass (the paperboy that is). This probably doesn't change your mind about that though.
Emulator Coder, Site Developer, Site Owner, Expert player
(3599)
Joined: 11/3/2004
Posts: 4739
Location: Tennessee
qFox wrote:
Dying is "not done" in tas. There are quite some (popular) games in which dying to save time is a highly debated topic.
Dying is quite common in the TASes on this site. And those who disagree with it are for the most part in the minority.
Personally, I am entertained by a creative use of death to save time.
In this case he does not die, and he loses no lives.
Joined: 4/25/2004
Posts: 615
Location: The Netherlands
I like being the minority :(
But the topic is always debated, in any game. Even in Paperboy, I mean, Paperboy! :p
Well, it was just my two cents. The run looks fine, it's just the death that looked odd to me.
Joined: 4/20/2005
Posts: 2160
Location: Norrköping, Sweden
Wednesday is done now!
This was a "Window crashing day", which means that I focus on crashing windows more than other objects. Overall, I think it turned out fine. Oh, one thing that I should comment. On frame 13561 I throw a paper that hits an invisible wall of some kind. I only throw this to show this little weird bug. Besides that, There shouldn't be anything weird on this day. I had good luck on paper refills, so I could use up a lot of papers. Enjoy!
qFox: I don't believe I answered your question about why I don't use up all my papers sometimes... The reason I don't always use them all up, are because there isn't anything to throw them at, basically. Sometimes two paper refills just come too close to each other, so I don't hve time to use up all the papers. As stated previously in this thread, it's not possible to manipulate where there refills appear without wasting time.
Joined: 4/20/2005
Posts: 2160
Location: Norrköping, Sweden
qFox wrote:
Left/right, different targets, doesnt help for manipulation?
Nope... The only thing that affects paper refills, as far as I know, is the frames you start the game (the frame you press start on the startmenu). I've tested all kinds of things to manipulate luck, different inputs, hitting different targets, all kinds of things, but no luck...
I like this run so far =)
That's good when you decided to make different days. Still waiting next days. Good luck with your run =)
I'm just wondering if you can manipulate luck by crashing end of the level in different frame (you stop pressing up -button frame(s) before collision)
That's only guessing
Joined: 4/20/2005
Posts: 2160
Location: Norrköping, Sweden
Creatus wrote:
I'm just wondering if you can manipulate luck by crashing end of the level in different frame (you stop pressing up -button frame(s) before collision)
Hmm, I don't know... It's possible, but it would waste time to slow down before crashing, which would oppose the "fastest time" goal, so I don't think it's really an option... and getting better paper drops doesn't save time either. Good idea though. :) I'm glad you like it so far!
