Joined: 8/26/2006
Posts: 1139
Location: United Kingdom
I'll reveal the technique when I finish this WIP. If I can get to the second cycle without any desyncs then I will be convinced that it works. I've used it in West Clock Town and through Scarecrow song in the trading post and there have not been any desyncs. All I've gathered so far is that it definitely reduces the desync rate.
Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
There was a newly made Spiderman song that was featured in the blooper reel of Spiderman 2... OT but that Blooper reel was one of the funniest I have ever seen for any movie.
I should probably in my spare time find the correct settings to play MM correctly and whatnot.... does it always have to play in full screen?
Seriously, just play the Bolero of Fire. That should be a familiar tune for most of us, and since all notes are of equal length, playing it fast doesn't affect its recognizability.
Be sure to play the notes as fast as possible in front of the scarecrow. If you leave any unnecessary spaces in between them, you'll get the delays every time you play back the song later in the run.
wait... i havent played the hole game in a long time but how necasarry are the lens of truth? Cause when your up in the graveyard area, you are able to just play the song of healing without talking to him. The thing is I dont know if you have to have him visible with the lens of truth or not. some one want to test it? Because this way you can get the goron a lot faster and maybe roll to the lens of truth if you still need it later in the game. I pretty sure this will be possible. This could save some time... Check out the ssa site, i think they have some good ideas there maybe... worth a look.
wait... i havent played the hole game in a long time but how necasarry are the lens of truth? Cause when your up in the graveyard area, you are able to just play the song of healing without talking to him. The thing is I dont know if you have to have him visible with the lens of truth or not. some one want to test it? Because this way you can get the goron a lot faster and maybe roll to the lens of truth if you still need it later in the game. I pretty sure this will be possible. This could save some time... Check out the ssa site, i think they have some good ideas there maybe... worth a look.
wait... i havent played the hole game in a long time but how necasarry are the lens of truth? Cause when your up in the graveyard area, you are able to just play the song of healing without talking to him. The thing is I dont know if you have to have him visible with the lens of truth or not. some one want to test it? Because this way you can get the goron a lot faster and maybe roll to the lens of truth if you still need it later in the game. I pretty sure this will be possible. This could save some time... Check out the ssa site, i think they have some good ideas there maybe... worth a look.
You need to have the Lens of Truth in the Goron Graveyard. Otherwise, playing the SoH has no effect.
I've confirmed that it doesn't matter if you talk to Darmani and/or equip your Lens to see him in the Goron Village or at any point along the route to Mountain Village. He will always show up in the Graveyard, but at that point you need to equip the Lens before you can heal him.
Yeah, that's definitely true. Just soar straight out of the lens cave.
Also, to prevent repitition of notes, you can play the tune I suggested like this:
C>, Z+Cv, v+C<C>, C<, Z+C^, ^+R+C<, ^+C^
Oh, right. Sorry, I was thinking of a different route there for a second.
Also, after checking, it seems the scarecrow's song does NOT take sharps/flats, so looks like we're stuck with 5 notes to make a song with.
Incidentally, those notes are D, F, A, B, and D (one octave higher).
I've used it in West Clock Town and through Scarecrow song in the trading post and there have not been any desyncs. All I've gathered so far is that it definitely reduces the desync rate.
So you've already set your Scarecrow's Song...in cycle two? Am I reading this right?
The Scarecrow's Song should be left for the third (main) cycle, since it doesn't carry over across three-day cycles. You'll be starting over from South Clock Town after getting the Goron Mask per the route I posted, since pyh's suggestion to Goron roll all the way to Southern Swamp isn't any faster. (I timed it -- it takes about 1'06", and besides, you'll be missing the crucial Adult Wallet upgrade.)
petrie911 wrote:
Also, after checking, it seems the scarecrow's song does NOT take sharps/flats, so looks like we're stuck with 5 notes to make a song with. Incidentally, those notes are D, F, A, B, and D (one octave higher).
As I said, the BoF works just fine, and is a tribute to this game's prequel. Not to mention that it'll be skipped over in all proper OoT runs. If you don't remember it, it's C-Down A C-Down A C-Right C-Down C-Right C-Down.
Joined: 8/26/2006
Posts: 1139
Location: United Kingdom
It works...kind of...allow me to explain...
I recall a while back in this thread I suggested that the grotesque desync rate of this game was caused by the Mupen's inability to handle the expansion pack. Then L4yer came along and said that had nothing to do with it, he said it was all down to bad save states and over the last week or so I have looked into this and I'm pretty sure he's right.
If, in a run, you want to get from point A to point B. You create several save states in between these points while you TAS it for rerecording purposes and testing purposes etc. Now, given the idea that the Mupen has a bug that means occasionally when a save state is made a certain number of frames are not taken into account (for example, 4 frames are lost, in MM that would probably mean losing an input frame of movement sending Link into a wall). One could argue that the more save states that are made between point A and point B the higher the chances of one being dodgy and sending the movie out of sync.
What I have been doing to evade desync is really very very simple, primitive and rudimentary at best (while we wait for Mupen upgrades).
I create a base save state in slot 1 (for example) at point A. I then proceed as I normally would to TAS up until point B, however, as I do so I write down on a piece of paper the optimal frames in which each keypress is to be made. I use as many states and rerecords as I need for it to be perfect.
Once I am satisfied I then load state 1 at point A and using frame advance I input all keypresses between point A and B in a single rerecord. As long as the save state at point A is good then it should work perfectly.
I've not had a chance to thoroughly test this technique out yet. I am sure there are instances where it may not work out properly for whatever reason. However, I have been using this technique through West Clock Town, Trading Post, West Clock Town, South Clock Town to East Clock Town and have had only one desync, in that case my save state at point A was bad.
I apologise if everyone was expecting a high-tech solution to the problem, but it really is that simple. It doesn't completely solve desync problems but so far I have experienced one desync whereas AKA had gone through God knows how many.
So, like I said, not a complete solution, but at least it makes N64 TASing more bearable.
As regards to the next WIP the process I am following is very time consuming (at the moment I am spending 1-2 hours optimising each screen). I have taken down the input from East Clock Town into the Stock Pot Inn (where I will get the money) and from there it is get the magic, deposit rupees and then get skull kid. I can't quite say how long it will be but I'll try and get the next WIP along as soon as possible.
Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
Same.
I think that it's a style to get used to- I TAS with many savestates between A and B testing all sorts of stuff, it'd take me a while to start playing like that but that does sound like a good temporary solution until the emulator can be upgraded.
Most importantly, it's how you play and seems to work with MM, so this game can be worked on which is good because it is IMO as good of a TAS as OoT is.
That makes sence all though my TAS notes e.g comparisons are literally filled with number in all forms of directions, if I was using this method then I could defintley get used to it although there is a lot of extremley complex input in parts of the game, using that method would require a lot of extra paper and careful noting down.
BTW when you finish the first cycle and head for Snow Mountain. You can activate the sword glitch with a navi text, which is faster and more resourceful than a bomb.
EDIT: You've probally already seen it but here's my AVI of the post Scarecrow section http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=267&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=200
I wonder if its possible to skip the text before the magic, Mukki when scrolling through text are you holding B where apropiate e.g. Grandma text.
You are skipping Epona, right? I mean, it makes sense because it'll be faster, but it sort of confuses the storyline. The Skull Kid steals your horse and then you just forget about it and never get it back.
Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
right, but Epona wasn't exactly used in Oot either...
since Epona slows the game down, and both games have faster travel than Epona running than yeah.
Skipping semi-important goals became the name of the game when it was shown how much is skippable in OoT, this game is no different.
I never liked that horse too much anyways... all those carrots that were downed, the Arrogant Worms would be furious after their song was such a hit.
The poor vegetables!
Anyway, in OOT you didn't have to rescue Epona. In fact, in that game anyone who just watched the movie and never played the game wouldn't even know about Epona. But in Majora's Mask, it's obvious that you're supposed to rescue Epona.
