Joined: 8/26/2006
Posts: 1139
Location: United Kingdom
mwl wrote:
Also, are you going to be the one doing this or just are we just throwing out ideas for the future runner, whoever that may be?
I think it'll be good fun to plan and discuss even though it's unlikely that anyone will ever do it, count me in. Dragorn's run is very old. It was posted soon after the current any% which my modern TAS is well over an hour faster than so it'll be interesting to see just how fast a 100% run will be.
Also, can anyone upload a copy of Dragorn's route? I've been looking for it for a few days and can't find it. It's probably still the best starting point. Even though there are a lot of new tricks I don't think a new 100% route will be as fundamentally different as the new any% was. Mainly because the hover glitch skips so much that we'll be needing.
Petrie, since you mentioned any%, do you expect that the v2 route will be very different? The only real new discovery is the grotto glitch, but because warping to Deku Palace skips the bottle I'd be surprised if it saves any time at all. I plan to start recording at the start of June when my uni exams are done so I'd like to put pen to paper for the new any% route now if there is changes to be made.
The only major difference I can think of for the route is to get the beaver race bottle over the ranch bottle. Also I distinctly remember seeing a video on Youtube where someone glitches past one of the walls in the upper part of GBT, perhaps its possible to use that in order to skip the boss key. I think somewhere between 5-10 mins improvement is likely to be possible.
Joined: 8/26/2006
Posts: 1139
Location: United Kingdom
I'll try over the next few days to go through my movie and make a table of frame counts and save states to make testing and comparison easier. It's something I started a few months ago but never got very far...
I don't think I'll get as much as 5 -10 mins unless, of course, we can glitch into a boss chamber. This game is pretty maxed out and a sub 2:10 would surprise me.
Completed Bomber's Notebook?
Also, are you going to be the one doing this or just are we just throwing out ideas for the future runner, whoever that may be?
Every entry in the bomber's notebook gives you a mask or a heart piece or is a prereq to another entry that gives you a mask or a heart piece. So that set implies a completed bomber's notebook.
EDIT: Except, it seems, getting the bomber's notebook itself. Which is completely skippable.
Build a man a fire, warm him for a day,
Set a man on fire, warm him for the rest of his life.
Every entry in the bomber's notebook gives you a mask or a heart piece or is a prereq to another entry that gives you a mask or a heart piece. So that set implies a completed bomber's notebook.
Does Link not picking up the key to the Stock Pot Inn which Gorgon who has the same name as the player, get entered (under Anju I believe) into the log book? The only reward for that is 100 rupees IIRC, and has no effect on the rest of the Marriage quest. Can not recall any others though.
Every entry in the bomber's notebook gives you a mask or a heart piece or is a prereq to another entry that gives you a mask or a heart piece. So that set implies a completed bomber's notebook.
Does Link not picking up the key to the Stock Pot Inn which Gorgon who has the same name as the player, get entered (under Anju I believe) into the log book? The only reward for that is 100 rupees IIRC, and has no effect on the rest of the Marriage quest. Can not recall any others though.
No, it doesn't.
Build a man a fire, warm him for a day,
Set a man on fire, warm him for the rest of his life.
Completed Bomber's Notebook?
Also, are you going to be the one doing this or just are we just throwing out ideas for the future runner, whoever that may be?
Throwing out ideas. The 100% route will take a while to complete so it's best to start now. Once we have a good route, it shouldn't be too hard to find someone to do it. I'm not really planning on doing any TASing, though.
BTW, I wouldn't say completing the Bomber's Notebook would be necessary unless the game gives you some sort of message about it. You'd obviously have to get it as part of a 100% run, as it is an item, but I'm not sure about having to complete it. Although, since it doesn't reset when you go back in time, perhaps you should.
Tompa wrote:
Area maps, compasses and dungeon maps are not included.
Well, not at SDA, but there doesn't seem to be any precedent here at TASvideos. Besides, I think that the definition of 100% I gave is perfectly reasonable, and it happens to include them.
Mukki wrote:
Petrie, since you mentioned any%, do you expect that the v2 route will be very different? The only real new discovery is the grotto glitch, but because warping to Deku Palace skips the bottle I'd be surprised if it saves any time at all. I plan to start recording at the start of June when my uni exams are done so I'd like to put pen to paper for the new any% route now if there is changes to be made.
Actually, I was more talking about looking for places to optimize, and any new speed tricks. I don't really think the grotto glitch will be faster either, as it requires an enormous amount of bombchus and money is already quite tight in the current route. Plus, bypassing the witch's bottle, as you said, is less than desirable.
AKA wrote:
The only major difference I can think of for the route is to get the beaver race bottle over the ranch bottle.
Joined: 8/15/2005
Posts: 1941
Location: Mullsjö, Sweden
petrie911 wrote:
Tompa wrote:
Area maps, compasses and dungeon maps are not included.
Well, not at SDA, but there doesn't seem to be any precedent here at TASvideos. Besides, I think that the definition of 100% I gave is perfectly reasonable, and it happens to include them.
And the definition at SDA is actually superior when it comes to this. Collecting maps is just ass to do. There's a reason why, in for example Super Metroid, you only need to collect powerups in order to get 100%. Visiting the map stations is useless. Why should it be any different with Majora's Mask? Because you won't get any % in it? Why make a new 100% definition when there are good ones in other games and at SDA.
I'm pretty sure that you can get the notebook AFTER getting everything in it.
I remember being able to get the heart piece from the guy in the toilet on the first cycle (use the deed after getting the moons tear). I would wager that that would carry over to various other stuff as well, and stating the obvious, you'd need a reference to do the notebook, as I would doubt that you'd have the entire thing memorized (although I could be wrong).
Joined: 11/18/2006
Posts: 2426
Location: Back where I belong
jjbob1234 wrote:
i need help how do i get the mask in the bay:(
Play the song of healing next to the nearly dead Zora once you drag him to shore.
On another note, this isn't really a forum for game help and FAQs, it's for discussing TAS routes, tricks, and possibilities. Thanks for understanding.
ok
i know 1 u can put a mask on win ur on ur horse
u have to push R at a save staue and save the game whit a mask in ur <V> on the top
[EDIT BY moderator: Merged several posts into one. Please use the "Edit" button when applicable!]
Joined: 11/18/2006
Posts: 2426
Location: Back where I belong
A) Don't double/triple/quadruple post. Edit them together.
B) Read the FAQs[/b] to familiarize yourself with what we do here.
C) Don't post again until you've read the forum FAQs also.
...moving along
Anyways, on the subject of the 100% route, I've run into a bit of a snag. You see, it'd be nice to get the Goron Mask first, but it would be greatly preferrable to have a bottle when doing this. The problem is, the ideal bottle, Madame Aroma's, must be gotten on the third cycle if we wish to use a three cycle strategy (or it must be gotten with the Couple's Mask). Obviously, that makes it unavailable for Goron Mask first. The problem is, we can't get the All-Night Mask or the Couple's Mask if we're doing Goron Mask first, so if we do a three cycle strat, we can't use Goron Mask first.
So, that leaves the question of A) whether to do Goron Mask first, and B) Which bottle to get for it. I'm not sure about A, but for B...
Swamp- No. The whole point of GM first is to use it in the swamp.
Goron Race- No. Impossible.
Beaver Race- No. Too far away, and questionably possible.
Graveyard-No. Too far away.
Madame Aroma- Maybe. going through the trading quest three times is questionable, though.
Ranch- Now this is interesting. If we go for the Ranch bottle, we'll have to either get Epona or the Bunny Hood, but we can't get both (Bremen Mask is only available at night). The other we'll have to come back for. Still, we can do the dog track and defend the milk shipment, and if we get Epona we can do Gorman Track.
Once we get to the Mountains with a bottle, we go through the regular procedure for the Mask/lullaby and get the Don Gero's Mask, and play the SoT after hitting the Snowhead Owl Statue.
So, what do you guys think? Should we do Goron Mask first, and, if so, which bottle do we use for it?
Joined: 8/26/2006
Posts: 1139
Location: United Kingdom
I agree that it's definitely favourable to get the Goron Mask early.
Why would the K&A Quest have to be done three times? It's been a while since I've gone through it so I'm probably missing something but could we not get the Kafei Mask, Keaton Mask and Empty Bottle first then get the Postman's Hat and Couple's Mask second?
In either case I'd say the Ranch. I imagine that it'd probably be faster because, like you said, we could take out quite a few sidequests along the way.
I'd like to see how much of the route you have so far as it's quite difficult to visualise how well the above would work as opposed to Madame Aroma's bottle.
Well, if we do the Couple's Mask on the second cycle, we have to get the All-Night mask on the third, and surprise! we still need the heart pieces from Anju's grandmother, requiring an extra cycle. Similarly, if we leave the couple's mask to last, we have to take an extra cycle to break up the fight in Dotour's office.
I suppose we wouldn't have to go through it three times, but having an extra cycle like that where there's only one thing to do seems questionable, and it would look awful.
I'm still in the overall planning stages of the route. The bomber's notebook quests are the key, as they (except Shiro) are the ones that are very time-dependent. Everything else will be planned around them.
That being said, I have a lot of ideas for change-ups that should make the route VERY different from Dragorn's. With all the new tricks we have, I see no reason this can't go sub-6:00.
Oh, and BTW, I've done a bit of an about-face on the issue of maps and compasses. This is largely for the self-serving reason that Stone Tower works out far nicer if we don't have to get its map.
Collecting maps is just ass to do. There's a reason why, in for example Super Metroid, you only need to collect powerups in order to get 100%. Visiting the map stations is useless. Why should it be any different with Majora's Mask? Because you won't get any % in it? Why make a new 100% definition when there are good ones in other games and at SDA.
Well, I consider the maps and compasses and keys to be permanently collectible items. They enhance your ability to see where things are and to open doors. You have to do some actual questing to collect them, meaning that this makes a 100% run that much more distinguished and interesting. And hey, why should we be deprived of meeting Tingle?
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
I think 100% should be everything completed - All items, upgrades and collectables, completed Bombers' Notebook. And all temples completed of course. Maps are not necessary.
We should definitely hold off on getting the bombers notebook for as long as possible, as the time sunk into the bomber related quests dialogs would really not be good for a time trial.
I think, stylistically that we should do the couples mask prior to the Moon stuff, and we should probably look at getting Chateau Romani before heading up there, so we can pwn Majora w/ the Fierce Deity mask.
Also, I'm thinking that ISoT would be necessary throughout all of it to simply give you enough time to cram as much stuff into it. Yeah, it's kinda cheating, but it will definitely help getting as much stuff as we need.
Cycle 1 isn't going to be a complete waste now, and here's some additional stuff to do:
Get the North Clock town Piece of Heart (PoH) on the pillar (if possible)
Get the PoH from the Deku Arcade
Get the PoH from the dude in the WC
Get the PoH from the Clock Tower
Get the Blast Mask (if possible)
Get the Kafei Mask (if possible)
Bag of Magic Food wrote:
And hey, why should we be deprived of meeting Tingle?
Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
Wait, hang on, really? SDA has a 100% speedrun? I didn't know that!
SARCASM was used in this post. For more details, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarcasm.
