I'm going to get back to work on this pretty soon, but I'm planning to do a reset to skip the cutscenes after playing the Song of Time. If the new Mupen is available within the next two months or so, I'll wait for that. Otherwise, I'm using antids. I don't care if it "resets the emulator and not the ROM." I'm not intentionally wasting over a minute when I know I can skip it by resetting.
Places where a reset saves time.
1. As soon as I enter SCT for the first time, reset. This skips the SCT introduction scene.
2. As soon as I play the SoT after getting the OoT back. This skips the flashback scene, and the subsequent scene in SCT, allowing me to go directly into the Clock Tower after the second cycle starts.
3. After learning the Song of Healing, I could equip the OoT inside the Clock Tower, save, and reset. This might skip Tatl's dialogue when I return to SCT. (Haven't tested this yet, so it might not be faster. If it is faster, the run will have 4 cycles instead of 3, but the second one will be really short.)
4. After playing the SoT at the end of the second (third, assuming point 3 is faster) cycle. Might not be faster, but it'll skip the "going back in time" scene. I'll test both to see which is faster.
EDIT: I've tested point 3 and it doesn't work. The SoT doesn't work inside the Clock Tower.
Also, I'm thinking of naming him "SL". This would cost about a second overall, throughout the run. I think it's worth it.
As I posted in the comments, we still need the Sonata to get into Woodfall. So NCT->Woodfall doesn't seem more attractive than Termina Field->Palace Garden. And NCT->Woodfall also bypasses the bottle.
That being said, Woodfall->Snowhead is intriguing, especially when you consider where it puts you. But you'd need the Goron Mask first, and once you have that, you're already in Mountain Village. Would make skipping the Goron Mask somewhat easier...perhaps.
South Bay->Ikana is a maybe, but you'd have to refill explosives somehow, as you won't have enough to climb Stone Tower.
we have to test this trick a lot
I have a idea to reduce the number of needed explosives a little bit for all the wrong warp things.
it should be also possible to hover from NCT to Snowhead etc. with 30 explosives, what is not that much.
in order to get the bottle from twinrova, we could travel from ikana via the river to southern swamp, what is actually pretty convenient ;)
but then there's still that stupid song.....
I said that Woodfall->Snowhead is unappealing because we bypass the Goron Mask. Well, the thought occurs...how necessary is the Goron Mask? Here's a prospective route for GM-less any%
Blah Blah first cycle stuff
Song of Double Time
Get ECT chest
Buy Bomb Bag and 20c
Go to Swamp (non-warping method)
Get witches' bottle
Use non-Goron Mask boat skip
Get Sonata
Go to Woodfall
Hit statue
Get Bow
Leave, warp to CT
Go to Ranch
Hover into Ranch
Get Ranch Bottle
Warp back to CT
Buy 10 more chus
Get Zora Mask
Get Hookshot+2 Zora Eggs
Deposit Eggs
Go back for the other 2
Deposit them
Get 2 Eggs from Pinnacle Rock
Go back for the last egg from Pinnacle Rock
Get NWBN
Go to South Bay
Do GBT
Warp to CT
Buy 20 chus
Warp to Woodfall
Complete Woodfall
Go to Woodfall's Fairy Shrine
Wrong Warp to Snowhead
Do Snowhead
Warp to CT
Buy 20 chus
Head to Stone Tower
Climb up Stone Tower
Warp to CT, 20 more chus
Complete Stone Tower
Warp to CT
Moon
Note that WW to Snowhead can be done with just 15 chus.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nHAvF3ZdImk
Time Lost
-Extra trip to Pinnacle Rock
-No Goron Rolling through Swamp
-Some Snowhead rooms go slower
-Any time lost from not having Goron Rolling
Time Gained
-Don't have to get Goron Mask
-Don't have to do Goron Race
-No extra SoT
I'm thinking this actually works out in favor of skipping the Goron mask. Please tell me if I missed anything.
If it's faster, than yes. However, skipping items at the cost of time is only reserved for low% runs.
But of course. However, I think this will be faster. After looking at previous runs, getting the Goron Mask takes 6 minutes. The Goron Race takes 2 minutes, and the extra trip to Pinnacle Rock takes 3 minutes. So, unless the other time lost adds up to more than 5 minutes, it looks like this should be faster.
Joined: 8/26/2006
Posts: 1139
Location: United Kingdom
Interesting glitch. I'm surprised it hasn't been found until now since the open void behind the fairy fountains seems much more obvious to hover through than the grottos. Shame on us, good job Mr Grunz!
I think that you're onto something with skipping the goron mask. Also, the extra toll a gm-less run would take on link's bomb bag should be taken into account in the time lost. For example, superslides would need to be more common in places that would otherwise be rolled i.e to milk road. Also, we no longer have a goron bomb jump, therefore the ikana and gb fences have to be hovered over (not to mention the seam walk). There's probably others so it will need some fairly solid planning, but I think you're right that it won't add up to as much as 5 minutes.
But of course. However, I think this will be faster. After looking at previous runs, getting the Goron Mask takes 6 minutes. The Goron Race takes 2 minutes, and the extra trip to Pinnacle Rock takes 3 minutes. So, unless the other time lost adds up to more than 5 minutes, it looks like this should be faster.
But throughout the run wouldn't there be many many many many seconds lost due to lack of goron rolling? Or is this compensated by infinite super slides?
I think that you're onto something with skipping the goron mask. Also, the extra toll a gm-less run would take on link's bomb bag should be taken into account in the time lost. For example, superslides would need to be more common in places that would otherwise be rolled i.e to milk road. Also, we no longer have a goron bomb jump, therefore the ikana and gb fences have to be hovered over (not to mention the seam walk). There's probably others so it will need some fairly solid planning, but I think you're right that it won't add up to as much as 5 minutes.
Well, there are plenty of places to refill bombs in the game, and bomb drops can be manipulated if need be. The Ikana fences can be cleared with a single hover, so we can either use the Bubbles as our damage source or ESS to let a bomb fuse run out. The seamwalk can also use bubble hovering, although that may not work as well. The GB fence will probably need chus, as there's no way to lure a leever over there, but we'll have 10 at that point, and any extras will be used in GBT.
As for time lost from not having Goron Rolling, I think not switching masks will make up for a lot of it, the exception being the early Swamp. However, as far as I can tell, this route also uses fewer SoSes, which will save 25 seconds per use. And as you said, ESS reduces the time lost.
And yes, I have no idea how we missed using the fairy fountains. I even saw their scene file while looking for the grottos' one, and I still didn't put it together that we could use it there.
I was pretty shocked, that nobody's found it yet, because it was the first thing I did, when I entered the fairy fountain ;)
I don't know, if you've seen my MM run. a recoil flip can speed ikana early also up a bit, if you don't have goron mask for rolling over the seam
Would it be possible to get into the graveyard bottle area through the purple void?
If so, is it faster to get the graveyard bottle over the ranch bottle? Assuming you can even get in there early, that is.
you mean the dampe bottle right?
dampe is only there on the night of the final day even if you enter the cave early ;)
but it could be still faster in any%, I think
Woodfall Temple Boss Key Skip:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJ-sAxLlj3Y
the whole temple needs about 30 explosives now, so this allows us to beat the temple in one trip and to skip the whole gecko battle + the way over from the Boss key Chest to the Boss Room!
Swordless will have to get even more rupees now ;)
edit:
I totally forgot, that beating woodfall not as the first temple skips a long cutscence. thanks petrie for telling me about that.
we'll have to compare gecko with the boss key skip now. I'm positiv, that boss key skip is faster, but it requieres another trip to the bomb shop, what should make it slower in the end.
maybe we'll find a route, in which the boss key skip is faster, but I doubt it
I'm not exactly sure where said rupees will be coming from. Fighting Gekko incurs a at least a minute of time loss, though, so a simple Zora Pots game could probably make up for it. That or we leave Woodfall until after STT and just Light Arrow a few things. That could work. So, let's see here. Assuming we skip Goron Mask, which, to me, seems time-favorable, we have...
First cycle stuff (get ~270r)
Double Time
Hit CT Owl
buy bomb bag, 20c (140r) (20c)
Off to swamp (11c)
Get bottle, all that stuff
Sonata
Song of Soaring
Hit Woodfall Owl
Woodfall up to Bow (8c)
Warp to CT
Head to Ranch
Get in early (5c)
Get Ranch Bottle
*Double Time again when morning comes*
Warp to CT
Buy 10c (100r) (15c)
Head to GB
Hover over fence (13c)
Get Zora Mask
Hit Owl Statue
Go get Hookshot + 2 eggs (9c)
Get rest of eggs
Zora Pots game (190r)
Do GBT (0c)
Warp to CT, buy 20c (110r) (20c)
Warp to Woodfall, go to Fairy Fountain
WW to Snowhead (5c)
Complete Snowhead (0c)
Warp to CT
Get 50r from chest (160r)
Buy 20c (80r) (20c)
Climb Stone Tower (0c)
Buy 20c (0r) (20c)***
Complete Stone Tower, get rupees inside (100r)
Buy 20c (20r) (20c)
Use Boss key skip to complete Woodfall (0c)
Moon
Note that the 270r can be reduced by however many incidental rupees are obtained before the rupee count hits 0 (the triple starred point). Those 100r from Snowhead can be obtained by Light Arrowing 2 enemies. The Blue bubbles outside Gomess' room will do nicely.
We lose 1 SoS with this route, as well as the time it takes to buy bombchus. it's not clear whether it works out to be time-favorable, though. Of course, since the route is exactly the same up to that point, it can be tested when we come to it.
So, thoughts?
