Posted: 8/14/2005 4:57 PM
Post subject: Mario's Picross
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ventuz
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Player (125)
Joined: 10/4/2004
Posts: 940
I have started making TAS for this few days ago. I had been thinking to try keep this as secret project and submit it as a surprise, making this TAS is so simple for me (compared to Mega Man 5 that I have tried). But I'm afraid that some of you might get bored at this TAS if I finish this TAS because it probly have 192 problems to solve (long to watch, probly, 30 min?). So I'm writing this to show my progress if everyone's interest in it, or stop making if this is boring to many. So far I have Easy Picross Lvl 1 (all)and Level 2 (just A) done - http://ventuz.homestead.com/files/mariopicross_tas.zip Rom is Mario's Picross (UE) {S} {!} What do you think? Should I continue? *edit, whoop, missed a http to a link*
Posted: 8/16/2005 3:07 AM
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Sketchie
Joined: 5/6/2005
Posts: 141
I watched your short run and I must say that I am interested in seeing a complete run. IMO, doing a complete speedrun of the game shouldn't take you so long, since you can just look at puzzle solutions on the web (GameFAQs pops into mind), so why not just go and complete it? :)
Posted: 2/19/2006 6:31 PM
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qqwref
Player (138)
Joined: 8/27/2004
Posts: 165
Are you planning to continue this? I can if you won't.
Posted: 2/19/2006 11:58 PM
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ventuz
He/Him
Player (125)
Joined: 10/4/2004
Posts: 940
You can pick it up, I lost the interest to continue because not enough supports. You have my support if you do.
Posted: 2/20/2006 2:41 AM
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Boco
Former player
Joined: 3/30/2004
Posts: 1354
Location: Heather's imagination
Umm... wouldn't a speedrun of Picross just be filling in the solution as fast as possible?
someone is out there who will like you. take off your mask so they can find you faster. I support the new Nekketsu Kouha Kunio-kun.
Posted: 2/20/2006 2:43 AM
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MattyXB
Player (25)
Joined: 4/23/2005
Posts: 435
Location: Germany
Yes, I think this is to boring to watch. And no problem to make it as fast as possible. So the TAS is not interesting to make for me. Maybe to watch it one time. But its impossible to make it entertainment enough I think.
Last TAS finished: Final Fantasy Adventure (4.0 Warp Glitch Run) WIP in the moment: Tail Gator (GB) Matty
Posted: 2/20/2006 5:31 AM
Post subject: 95
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Acmlm
Active player (493)
Joined: 11/14/2004
Posts: 169
Location: Mirabel, Québec, Canada
There's Mario Picross on SNES, too (Picross NP Vol. 1 (J) (NP).smc, up to 8), and Oekaki Logic (1 and 2) with the same gameplay ... But I also think filling up every single image within seconds each would get repetitive long before you're done, since about 90% of the run would be the images being revealed after you solve each ... It's funny for a short time though, since it goes so much faster than anyone would ever be able to do (even knowing the solution) ... I tried it just once before, and did a 10x10 in 2 seconds.
Posted: 2/20/2006 3:54 PM
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qqwref
Player (138)
Joined: 8/27/2004
Posts: 165
Also, there's Picross 2 for the GBC. :-) You forgot that one. You are right, though, there is a limit on how entertaining a game like this can be. This is more of a "sit back and play for countless hours" game. Anyone here ever played Denki Blocks? I'd like to make a WIP for that just because it's so darn hard to beat. It wouldn't be a speedrun so much as a (really fast) level solution guide.
Posted: 2/20/2006 6:13 PM
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SXL
Joined: 2/7/2005
Posts: 571
if it's just filling each row as fast as possible, yeah it'd be quickly boring. but what about a logic solution ? like a human... step after step. and even, programming a bot playing like a human isn't that hard.
I never sleep, 'cause sleep is the cousin of death - NAS
Posted: 2/20/2006 10:04 PM
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qqwref
Player (138)
Joined: 8/27/2004
Posts: 165
You couldn't do a logic solution. It would be way too fast to follow anyway, so it wouldn't matter (and it would be very slow anyway, with all of the moving around). That would be just as boring because, even on one of the largest puzzles, you'd still be trying to figure out what the first logical step was when the puzzle was finished (in, say, 3 or 4 seconds).
Posted: 3/26/2011 5:06 PM
Post subject: Mario's Picross
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Patryk1023
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Joined: 3/1/2011
Posts: 288
Location: Inside out house.
Hey! Now, I've downloaded Mario's Picross. This game is somewhere hard, but I wanna to TAS it. Is it a good idea?
<Nach> scrimpy is fretty with her sunglasses on I'm here. never visible.
Posted: 3/26/2011 6:35 PM
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samurai_goroh
Editor, Player (54)
Joined: 12/25/2004
Posts: 634
Location: Aguascalientes, Mexico
Maybe not, but I would like to see it anyways :)
I'm the best in the Universe! Remember that!
Posted: 3/26/2011 7:22 PM
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Patryk1023
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Joined: 3/1/2011
Posts: 288
Location: Inside out house.
For now I've maked ONLY 2 minutes! 0_o
<Nach> scrimpy is fretty with her sunglasses on I'm here. never visible.
Posted: 3/26/2011 9:38 PM
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Patryk1023
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Joined: 3/1/2011
Posts: 288
Location: Inside out house.
Tomorrow will be my 2 minutes WIP of that game.
<Nach> scrimpy is fretty with her sunglasses on I'm here. never visible.
Posted: 3/26/2011 11:31 PM
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ventuz
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Player (125)
Joined: 10/4/2004
Posts: 940
http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2721&highlight=
Posted: 3/27/2011 9:56 AM
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Patryk1023
He/Him
Joined: 3/1/2011
Posts: 288
Location: Inside out house.
ventuz, you started tasing this same game in 2005, but never published, yeah? I'm going only to get all Picross (not easy). Kinokio and Star? This will be a small project to end in next months. :)
<Nach> scrimpy is fretty with her sunglasses on I'm here. never visible.
Posted: 3/27/2011 10:28 AM
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Patryk1023
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Joined: 3/1/2011
Posts: 288
Location: Inside out house.
Some thing freak up microstorage, so I've encoded that: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BIm9Enr4nG8
<Nach> scrimpy is fretty with her sunglasses on I'm here. never visible.
Posted: 3/27/2011 3:50 PM
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Kuwaga
Joined: 10/20/2006
Posts: 1248
This should be faster. Might still be improvable.
Posted: 3/27/2011 4:36 PM
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Patryk1023
He/Him
Joined: 3/1/2011
Posts: 288
Location: Inside out house.
1-A to improve, rest is good? Ok, I'll make that movie again. xD
<Nach> scrimpy is fretty with her sunglasses on I'm here. never visible.
Posted: 3/27/2011 6:11 PM
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ALAKTORN
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Former player
Joined: 10/19/2009
Posts: 2527
Location: Italy
DS TAS of 2012
Kuwaga wrote:
This should be faster. Might still be improvable. http://www.abload.de/img/picrossklxm.png
I don't think it's worth the trouble
Posted: 3/28/2011 5:59 AM
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Zanoab
Joined: 12/31/2009
Posts: 174
I remember playing this as a kid before the GBC came out. If anybody is interested, I could write a python script to search (or more like bruteforce) for the fastest moveset (I will have it make sure there is an unmarked cell in the direction to filter pointless moves). A script could also be used to read the solutions from gamefaqs and if you want, output the solutions into a cleaner format so reading for the search script would be easier. I would be more interested in making an ai to solve the puzzles but something short and sweet like this would be fine. I will also include the option of setting the maximum amount of moves to speed things up so the work already done doesn't go to waste. If you want a specific output format for the moves, feel free to tell.
Posted: 3/28/2011 8:29 AM
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thommy3
Joined: 12/10/2006
Posts: 118
It is pretty boring to watch unfortunately. I wouldn't put too much work into it.
Posted: 8/1/2020 12:29 AM
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RetroEdit
Any
Editor, Reviewer, Player (169)
Joined: 8/8/2019
Posts: 152
Arcade TAS of 2023
Since Jigwally's submission, I've been working on my own movie. This movie has all the puzzles solved: User movie #65083085390942935 It's actually slower than my previous movie, because the puzzle solves were entirely generated from scratch. There's actually a bit of subtlety to how fast a puzzle solve is, so it may be a little while before I'm satisfied with the level of optimization and end up submitting. EDIT: Here's a level-by-level comparison:
Easy
  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0
  0  0  0  0 -1  0  0  0
  0  0  0  0  0 -8  0  0
  0  0  0  0  0 -1  0  0
  0  0  0  8  0 -7  0  0
  0  2 -2  0  0  0  0  0
  0  0  0  0  0  0 -1  0
  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  0

Kinoko
  3  0  0  0  0  0  0  0
  0 -1  0  0  8  0  0  0
  0 -8  0  0  0  0  0  0
 -1  0  8 -2  0 -5  0  0
  0  0  0 -2  0 -3  0  1
  2  0  0  0  1  3  0  0
 -6  0  0  6  0  0 -6  0
 -2  0 -2  2  4 -2  0 -2

Star
  0 -1 -4  0  0  2 -2  0
  9 -1  0  0  0  0  0  0
  0  0  0  1  0  0  0  0
  0  0  0 -1  0  5  0  0
 -1  2 -6  6  5  0  0  0
  1  0  0  0 -2 -1  3 -2
 -1  4  2  0  3 -1  0  0
  2  0  0  1  6  5  6  0

Gains: -85, losses: +111, net: +26
The differences in level times comes down to (at least) three factors: whether the first two A-presses are adjacent, timer lag, and the time it takes to chisel the final square. The third factor is the most significant, making a difference of up to 7 frames in the final product (at least from this comparison.) All the solutions are optimal. Also, all differences could be accounted for by in-level comparisons, so each level can probably be treated individually without worrying too much about later consequences. The most I expect to save over my most recent WIP movie upload at this point is 00:38.58, and that's a pretty optimistic projection (assumes saving 9 frames on each level).
Posted: 8/10/2020 5:39 PM
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RetroEdit
Any
Editor, Reviewer, Player (169)
Joined: 8/8/2019
Posts: 152
Arcade TAS of 2023
I've done some more investigation. Essentially, most of the time differences come down to the hammer's animation logic. By delaying frames differently, or rerouting so non-chisel movements will occur at a different time, the hammer animation cycle will be at a different point by the time the end is reached. The hammer animation timer is also probably related to avoiding timer lag. There are at least four important variables for understanding the hammer animation timer: $D81E-$D821 (a few variables after that have some relevance). $D820 and $D821 are indexes, while $D81E and $D81F probably more directly relate to the hammer's current state (they are also indexes of sorts). So far, I've analyzed two levels. In Easy 3F, the huge 8-frame time difference basically comes down to a sort of framerule from saving one frame early on through adjacent A inputs. In Easy 2E, the altered timing for the non-chisel movement mid-solve are what result in a single frame being saved in the ending animation. I'll probably come back once I understand the exact logic for how the hammer animation cycles work.