Topic by millys

Posted: 9/29/2005 1:59 PM

Post subject: Metal Warriors

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millys

Joined: 3/29/2005
Posts: 14

Metal Warriors is one of my favorite SNES games so after I watched a lot of the speed runs on this site (especially megaman and metroid ones) I thought a run of this game would be pretty fun and quick to watch I've beaten the game a few times so I know a thing or two about it. I started the speed run and completed the first level, with only a few hundred rerecords (just as a test mostly). but I did it without taking damage even though it's definitely faster (not a whoooole lot) to take damage, but the problem with that (for me) is that you have to pretty much run directly into any bad guys holding shoot until they die. and that doesn't look so cool another problem with the game I'm having is with the 3rd level where you must defend a ship against a number of bad guys that attack you, but they all around you, far away and off screen. you have a gun which can hit them from any distance but.. I don't know how to figure out when and where they all spawn and shoot them perfectly! But I'm just wondering what everyone thinks http://www.vgmuseum.com/images/snes01/01/Metal%20Warrior%20-%20Ingame.gif (for screenshot of game if you don't know it)

Posted: 9/29/2005 2:42 PM

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nesrocks

He/Him

Player (241)

Joined: 5/1/2004
Posts: 4096
Location: Rio, Brazil

Yea thought about it, and i think this game is very complex for a timeattack, which is good and bad. I'd like to see parts of flying without the robot ("naked") to more easily get through stuff.

aka Nesrocks http://www.youtube.com/user/UoBtExFODA https://nesrocks.com https://twitter.com/bitinkstudios

Posted: 12/11/2007 7:32 PM
(Edited: 3/6/2008 6:06 PM)

Post subject: Metal Warriors

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Soulrivers

Former player

Joined: 12/27/2006
Posts: 532
Location: Göteborg, Sweden

While I realize there's a thread for this game already, it felt stupid reviving at 2 year old topic. For those unfamiliar with the game, in Metal Warriors you use your robot suit that you wear to fly, shoot and collect power ups (these contain things such as missiles, though they are all temporary). ~~http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1419588516/Metal%20Warriors%20%28US%29.smv~~ Small WIP, containing only a fragment of the first level, though made to show what the game is about. Is anyone interested? Any feedback or information is appreciated. NEW WIP OF FIRST LEVEL: http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1669160637/Metal%20Warriors%20%28US%29.smv And youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNeRUEEdtFc

My published movies [03:45:05] <Naohiro19> Soulrivers: ... [03:45:19] <Soulrivers> ? [03:46:35] <Naohiro19> <Soulrivers> No! <Naohiro19> So? <Soulrivers> Yes! [03:46:48] <Naohiro19> joke

Posted: 12/11/2007 7:38 PM

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Tompa

Any

Editor, Expert player (2142)

Joined: 8/15/2005
Posts: 1934
Location: Mullsjö, Sweden

I suggested this idea as I have had plans on doing this my own... I've never beaten the game, only played up to the third level. And I know hardly any tricks or such that are useful in a run. So that was one of the reasons I didn't continue. But hopefully there are some people that kick cucumbers in this game. Or else I'll have to be one ^^.

Posted: 12/11/2007 8:29 PM

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Sabikage

Joined: 7/28/2004
Posts: 57

It's been strongly suggested that this game uses the the same basic engine as Front Mission 2: Gun Hazard. Having played both, I'm inclined to agree that there is a strong similarity of 'feel' in the way the mechs control, although the engines are different enough in minor ways that I don't think that any glitches found in one game would necessarily correspond to the other. However, for the most part, it's worth saying that if you can do a good run on Metal Warriors, the next step is to do a run on Gun Hazard, which is a longer, more detailed and involved game. The WIP looks good so far, although it's unfortunately brief. I'll reserve further judgement until a WIP of the completed first level is posted.

Posted: 12/12/2007 9:05 AM

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Dromiceius

Joined: 10/3/2005
Posts: 1332

Sabikage wrote:

However, for the most part, it's worth saying that if you can do a good run on Metal Warriors, the next step is to do a run on Gun Hazard, which is a longer, more detailed and involved game.

Cybernator is another good choice, but I don't know if that succeeded Metal Warriors, or if it's the other way around.

Soulrivers wrote:

Small WIP, containing only a fragment of the first level, though made to show what the game is about. Is anyone interested? Any feedback or information is appreciated.

You make it look surprisingly fast and easy, even for a TAS. I hope to see giant robots dancing to funky music in the near future. ;)

Posted: 12/23/2007 9:58 PM

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Soulrivers

Former player

Joined: 12/27/2006
Posts: 532
Location: Göteborg, Sweden

http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/163481539/Metal%20Warriors%20%28US%29.smv First level completed. At first I chose to manipulate the haste item, but I quickly realised this was a mistake, and redid with rockets instead.

My published movies [03:45:05] <Naohiro19> Soulrivers: ... [03:45:19] <Soulrivers> ? [03:46:35] <Naohiro19> <Soulrivers> No! <Naohiro19> So? <Soulrivers> Yes! [03:46:48] <Naohiro19> joke

Posted: 1/12/2008 6:44 AM

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gia

Player (109)

Joined: 5/3/2006
Posts: 223

I cant believe that picking the last rocket launcher wouldn't speed the ending. I mean it is just letting you fall and then rising a level, but you don't have to wait for the enemies to clear the path and then take them down with the beam sabre. I stopped your movie and tried (non tasing, with mistakes) and I finish the level from there in 22-24 seconds, and you take only 18... so whatever. I have done two playthroughs in the past, showing what I think are good "routes" or plan or whatever you call it when attempting non tas plays. ie. On the first level, at the beginning I wanted to get pushed by the cannon robot but since I stopped flying I triggered the other guy and had to go from below instead without push, meh. Then we chose to do different things at the greenhouse area I go up you stay at the middle. And near the end you keep going while I pick a new rocket launcher. Still, these show routes so you might find them useful. Remember that you would do them faster with no mistakes. http://www.youtube.com/my_playlists?p=1033A03D2F53C7B4 Btw, the floating mines can give a huge bonus to speed if they hit you in the right way, to me its luck, but perhaps it is possible for you to manipulate that to get extra time and make something more out of going that path full of mines on level 1.

Posted: 1/12/2008 11:59 AM

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Soulrivers

Former player

Joined: 12/27/2006
Posts: 532
Location: Göteborg, Sweden

gia wrote:

I cant believe that picking the last rocket launcher wouldn't speed the ending. I mean it is just letting you fall and then rising a level, but you don't have to wait for the enemies to clear the path and then take them down with the beam sabre. I stopped your movie and tried (non tasing, with mistakes) and I finish the level from there in 22-24 seconds, and you take only 18... so whatever. I have done two playthroughs in the past, showing what I think are good "routes" or plan or whatever you call it when attempting non tas plays. ie. On the first level, at the beginning I wanted to get pushed by the cannon robot but since I stopped flying I triggered the other guy and had to go from below instead without push, meh. Then we chose to do different things at the greenhouse area I go up you stay at the middle. And near the end you keep going while I pick a new rocket launcher. Still, these show routes so you might find them useful. Remember that you would do them faster with no mistakes. http://www.youtube.com/my_playlists?p=1033A03D2F53C7B4 Btw, the floating mines can give a huge bonus to speed if they hit you in the right way, to me its luck, but perhaps it is possible for you to manipulate that to get extra time and make something more out of going that path full of mines on level 1.

I don't have permission to view the playlist on YouTube. :(

My published movies [03:45:05] <Naohiro19> Soulrivers: ... [03:45:19] <Soulrivers> ? [03:46:35] <Naohiro19> <Soulrivers> No! <Naohiro19> So? <Soulrivers> Yes! [03:46:48] <Naohiro19> joke

Posted: 1/12/2008 5:18 PM

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gia

Player (109)

Joined: 5/3/2006
Posts: 223

lol wrong url, it's the "admin edit" link. Here: http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=1033A03D2F53C7B4

Posted: 1/12/2008 5:22 PM

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Tompa

Any

Editor, Expert player (2142)

Joined: 8/15/2005
Posts: 1934
Location: Mullsjö, Sweden

I've already showed him that link actually. So he has seen it already.

Posted: 1/12/2008 6:24 PM
(Edited: 1/13/2008 1:24 AM)

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gia

Player (109)

Joined: 5/3/2006
Posts: 223

Ah, cool then, plus the new ones I added this year? They are not SO different but have a couple things, they are at the end of the list, they also have comments on possible improvements I thought later. Also I was playing level 5 with Nitro and fell on top of a Havok, sharing hitboxes. And it used its melee attack while I was boosting out of him and I went hyperspeed in the direction I was trying to go, I mean it was very fast and the boost lasted long I skipped like 1.5 mountains in one second, even with that I couldn't do that level faster than the way I already use, but still, its something to look for in other levels. On level 5 the first explosion triggers the shield generator's power core destruction, you have to wait until the whole animation plays, you can get out of the mech and jump in a way the explosion almost kills you, activate the switch then go back to your mech and keep going without losing time there. Hah found a faster way to destroy the cannon on level 5, get on top of the cannon then you will fall inside and from there you can attack without getting damage. Havok's route is pretty easy to pull off. Nitro would be the fastest now (I have like 50% success, edit: wait just made it again and again and much better, it is 100%). There's a Havok on a platform on the way, you could get him to give you a push by shooting the platform so he falls on top of you and hopefully do its melee attack while you boost, I obviously haven't been able to do that. Now, Havok does about the same time, Nitro disposes of the cannon faster, but Havok gets there sooner. On my runs Havok is one second slower, you would have to test which can do it faster... I can't tell if getting the rocket launcher speeds things, because when I pick it I can't pull off the same stuff. However I doubt falling, destroying the turret to get the RL and raising again will end up being faster because the cannon goes down very fast already with the beam sabre. Level 7 Worm Bosses die much faster if you use the forward strike. I even have managed to kill them in two iterations: 3-3, although the usual is 2-3-2. Getting out and in of the suit to evade their attack first is extremely hard to do and second is slower than flying while shooting. I redid level 8, adding some path change and manipulation on the last Havok (so he falls and you don't have to destroy it). Uploaded along with the new level 5 to the playlist. On level 9, leaving Nitro as soon as you destroy the cannon is faster. At the second section where you have to climb moving things, I wasn't able to climb to the top in the first iteration, always come close but can't and have to wait. The second climbing part, this time with enemies, Havok has enough power to climb a whole level without having to use the "left" side. There are three possible weapons to bring to the final boss, RL, the accelerator and antigravity. I find with both Havok and Prometheus antigravity makes the battle faster. Just use it when the boss goes to spawn those flying turrets, and the boss will receive all damage. Of the two I always end the battle earlier with Prometheus even though Havok has cannon 4. With Havok staying under the boss when it is spawning turrets and firing tends to lock the boss in place. Jumping at certain time when the boss is raising can make the boss give you a push so you meet its level. With Prometheus something funny happened, the boss lowered when I was under it and Prometheus got stuck/locked under the boss even if it moved and of course all shots (cannon, aerial mines) were hits. This happened while the boss still had those pipes under it. To speed the ending just beat Akmon to the initial door and he won't be a problem.

Posted: 1/13/2008 1:21 AM

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millys

Joined: 3/29/2005
Posts: 14

The fastest way to do damage in this game is to do a reverse-rocket. Just press up against an enemy, then look in the opposite direction and fire away. It does something like 6x damage, don't think there is anything that even comes close to that. I know it works on the big cannon. And I don't think this would help with anything but if you press the shield button and then let go over and over you get hit for almost no damage. It works best with drache and his dive.

Posted: 1/13/2008 10:06 AM

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Soulrivers

Former player

Joined: 12/27/2006
Posts: 532
Location: Göteborg, Sweden

Wow, you guys are close to encyclopedias. I feel very tempted to pick up this game again with so much new information.

My published movies [03:45:05] <Naohiro19> Soulrivers: ... [03:45:19] <Soulrivers> ? [03:46:35] <Naohiro19> <Soulrivers> No! <Naohiro19> So? <Soulrivers> Yes! [03:46:48] <Naohiro19> joke

Posted: 1/14/2008 8:53 PM

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gia

Player (109)

Joined: 5/3/2006
Posts: 223

On the final level, the second climbing part (with enemies), the antigravity you are given at the entrance is faster than carrying RL, using it you can skip the climbing... Allow L+R and fire while holding R, then hold L and you will be able to go backwards while firing forward, useful against the final boss, specially on its first form which requires you to stay away from him (or it goes into another state, invincible one). It could also help against the third worm boss to "enter" while firing. I want to make a speed run of this game, so getting you to make the tas would really help me on the "optimal path" ;o

Posted: 3/4/2008 10:15 PM

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Soulrivers

Former player

Joined: 12/27/2006
Posts: 532
Location: Göteborg, Sweden

Now that I have finished Tiny Toons, I figured I'd pick this project back up. With more motivation to do it, I managed to save over 300 frames (~90 thanks to Tompa). The movie is around the same length as the previous one, however I go to the options and remove cutscenes, which will save me time in the long run. I also made som stylistic choices like not taking damage when I could avoid it, which I to be honest didn't bother with before. Without further ado, here is the WIP for level 1. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1669160637/Metal%20Warriors%20%28US%29.smv

My published movies [03:45:05] <Naohiro19> Soulrivers: ... [03:45:19] <Soulrivers> ? [03:46:35] <Naohiro19> <Soulrivers> No! <Naohiro19> So? <Soulrivers> Yes! [03:46:48] <Naohiro19> joke

Posted: 3/9/2008 11:11 AM

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Soulrivers

Former player

Joined: 12/27/2006
Posts: 532
Location: Göteborg, Sweden

Sorry for the double post - I added a youtube link for the WIP. Youtube

My published movies [03:45:05] <Naohiro19> Soulrivers: ... [03:45:19] <Soulrivers> ? [03:46:35] <Naohiro19> <Soulrivers> No! <Naohiro19> So? <Soulrivers> Yes! [03:46:48] <Naohiro19> joke

Posted: 3/9/2008 10:05 PM

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Tompa

Any

Editor, Expert player (2142)

Joined: 8/15/2005
Posts: 1934
Location: Mullsjö, Sweden

It's looking quite good so far. I hope that more can care about this run. The game is awesome!

Posted: 3/10/2008 3:23 PM

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ZeXr0

Joined: 8/27/2006
Posts: 883

I'm following it :P I used to play it when I was young.

Posted: 3/21/2008 4:40 PM

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gia

Player (109)

Joined: 5/3/2006
Posts: 223

cool, have you tried going through the middle section with mines instead of taking the upper path?, last time I got pushed forward by the mines gaining a lot of speed

Posted: 3/22/2008 3:13 AM

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Soulrivers

Former player

Joined: 12/27/2006
Posts: 532
Location: Göteborg, Sweden

gia wrote:

cool, have you tried going through the middle section with mines instead of taking the upper path?, last time I got pushed forward by the mines gaining a lot of speed

I did just that in my last WIP very optimised, however when I compared my new strategy to the old one, I found it was around 20 frames faster.

My published movies [03:45:05] <Naohiro19> Soulrivers: ... [03:45:19] <Soulrivers> ? [03:46:35] <Naohiro19> <Soulrivers> No! <Naohiro19> So? <Soulrivers> Yes! [03:46:48] <Naohiro19> joke

Posted: 3/23/2008 5:12 AM

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gia

Player (109)

Joined: 5/3/2006
Posts: 223

ah, wait so the upper part is faster or the middle one on level 3, I destroy the attacking force (protect the generators objective), but in tas you can turn your back as soon as the transmission ends and finish the level without caring about that objective, you just have to claim the ship before the "explosion" animation ends a question, I found that random crates set their item when they enter the "screen", but i tried entering at different times (from a starting position) and the item was always the same. Trying different things it seemed like the b button was the one that changed the item. Do you know anything about the rng? i'd like to manipulate it if possible or at least increase my chances of rockets on mission 6-2 (i practically never get rockets specifically on that level and tend to get antigravity/hp there so it must be something i always do before loading the crate).

Posted: 3/30/2008 2:51 PM

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Soulrivers

Former player

Joined: 12/27/2006
Posts: 532
Location: Göteborg, Sweden

I'm far from the TASer who watches the RNG. Though I have found that any actions at all changes what item comes out of a box. If you hold right for one frame longer, another item may come out.

My published movies [03:45:05] <Naohiro19> Soulrivers: ... [03:45:19] <Soulrivers> ? [03:46:35] <Naohiro19> <Soulrivers> No! <Naohiro19> So? <Soulrivers> Yes! [03:46:48] <Naohiro19> joke

Posted: 4/7/2009 1:59 AM

Post subject: Metal Warriors

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themidnightbum

Joined: 12/24/2008
Posts: 37

well i had a thread the other day to see what would be the easiest game to start tasing on and i found, out of all of the games they told me to try, i love this one. so im goin to try and tas it for my first video theres only one http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=1804FF0535BA14F5 speedrun i could find but its not a tas is there anymore tricks other than whats in this i should know about or videos?

Posted: 4/8/2009 2:40 PM

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gia

Player (109)

Joined: 5/3/2006
Posts: 223

<3 The IL is better: http://speeddemosarchive.com/MetalWarriors.html#IL keep in mind nitro's "normal" velocity (mech speed holding "b") is non optimal when going through halls and the like, if its your first tas you shouldnt be forced to keep it optimal, but you should give a try to keep it as high as possible (dont hit obstacles, release the gas for some frames, thats's what i got from soulrivers wip topic) trick 1: reverse rocket, hit with a rocket as you fire it, so you must hit with your back, see my 7-1 I reverse rocket a havok, at 6-2 i hit the boss with a reverse rocket once. It does a lot more damage. the boss at 6-2 would be faster if you tas every rocket hit to be a reverse rocket trick 2: backwards walking. Press left + right and you can move facing backwards so you can shoot behind you. I think it will help vs the final boss and can help with "entertainment". trick 3: invulnerability. Leave your suit (select) and enter it again. if you do it right you cant be damaged. Although you cant move either. trick 4: mine boost. Be inside a mine when it explodes so that it launches you. Its hard to be in control of the trick realtime, but tasing you could manipulate it. Mines you can boost from at 1, 3, 5, 8, 9-1, there are also at other levels but I dont recall being boosted favorably from those. trick 5: mega boost. This I got on a fluke. Didn't record it. Somehow get inside an enemy while they use a pushing attack and boost in that direction (I was falling and fell into a havok that was meleeing and then I jumped), if the timing is right you'll be launched at incredible speed. trick 6: get locked in the final boss. The first two or three forms of the boss have a hole in the lower part of the suit where your mech can fit. If you get in there you get locked and can hit non stop speeding those forms. But maybe isn't faster depending on how it plays. trick 7: 7-1 improvement. I leave my suit on the lower floor. You can leave the suit on the elevator. But it usually falls from it. Sometimes it stays onthe elavator. I dont know whats the rule, but I assume you have to exit the suit when you have 0 vertical speed.