Topic by Pasky13

Posted: 7/1/2013 10:50 PM

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Pasky13

Former player

Joined: 5/4/2005
Posts: 502
Location: Onett, Eagleland

Well, here's what I have so far, it may be helpful and I'm not sure if I'll continue it or not. http://pastebin.com/Zp3hDjmd Some boxes dont show, like some enemy projectiles, one of the beam blasts from an enemy mech in the 1st stage doesn't show up, didn't find that. There's an array of pointers at 0x83136E, every 2 bytes points to the base address of an active object structure (non projectile it seems). I didn't have time to play with the object structures but the first byte (possibly the first 2) appears to be the objects properties (can be hit, can be pushed, is alived, etc...). I believe they are bitwise properties (i.e. 0000 0001 == enemy is vulnerable, 0000 1001 == enemy is vulnerable and touching it hurts you, these are not real values). Anyways hope this helps. I didn't test past stage 1. If you need a bizhawk version let me know.

I think.....therefore I am not Barry Burton

Posted: 7/1/2013 11:48 PM

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Omnigamer

Player (33)

Joined: 2/16/2012
Posts: 282

I played through the whole game with the script, it does work in every stage and for the bosses. It even shows (some) of the loading zones for stage completion, so that's good to know too. There are some oddities due to shuffling hitboxes when you get out of/in a new mech, but pretty much anything that we'd care about shows up. Thanks! Now I can play around a bit more with the triggers in a few stages and see if any other animations can force clipping inside of objects. EDIT: I tried digging in to find the exact victory conditions for clearing Stage 4, but I wasn't able to find much. I was able to find the address that determines when you've "cleared" a stage though: 0x001FB3 : if set to 01, the stage has been beaten and it will begin the process to the load the next stage.

Posted: 7/2/2013 2:55 PM

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Dooty

Expert player (2584)

Joined: 6/2/2009
Posts: 1182
Location: Teresópolis - Rio de Janeiro - Brazil

Omnigamer wrote:

I can provide you with my notes on the spawn locations and ordering if you think that would help.

I think you killed less enemies on your real time run than I did, so it will help me determine which ones I need to kill, so yes, I need it.

Pasky13 wrote:

If you need a bizhawk version let me know.

Well, I do :) My programming skills can be divided by zero thus I think everything related to porting things is complicated, so, if it's too much trouble for you, don't worry, I can restart the run on Snes9x 1.51 no problem.

I am old enough to know better, but not enough to do it.

Posted: 7/2/2013 4:05 PM
(Edited: 7/2/2013 5:54 PM)

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Pasky13

Former player

Joined: 5/4/2005
Posts: 502
Location: Onett, Eagleland

Dooty wrote:

I think you killed less enemies on your real time run than I did, so it will help me determine which ones I need to kill, so yes, I need it. Well, I do :) My programming skills can be divided by zero thus I think everything related to porting things is complicated, so, if it's too much trouble for you, don't worry, I can restart the run on Snes9x 1.51 no problem.

EDIT: Added an HP display for the enemy's. You can toggle it to FALSE at the top of the script http://pastebin.com/af8tzQcB

I think.....therefore I am not Barry Burton

Posted: 7/2/2013 5:34 PM

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Dooty

Expert player (2584)

Joined: 6/2/2009
Posts: 1182
Location: Teresópolis - Rio de Janeiro - Brazil

Hey, that was fast! Thanks a lot, Pasky13. I'm still fiddling with stage 4, but I'm also testing stage 5 with Ballista, I can reach the "boss" a lot faster with it, but I need to switch to Havoc to finish the stage.

I am old enough to know better, but not enough to do it.

Posted: 7/2/2013 5:51 PM

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Pasky13

Former player

Joined: 5/4/2005
Posts: 502
Location: Onett, Eagleland

I added an hp display for enemies, please use the updated version for bizhawk EDIT: Doh! Didn't realize enemy health was 2 bytes. Fixed: http://pastebin.com/af8tzQcB

I think.....therefore I am not Barry Burton

Posted: 7/2/2013 5:56 PM

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Omnigamer

Player (33)

Joined: 2/16/2012
Posts: 282

Interesting... I'm curious to see which path you take with Ballistic to get to the right side of the stage. Having to use the Havoc at that point doesn't surprise me though. Do you have to wait for the elevator or are you able to climb up without it? I will paste through my notes on the spawn points when I get home tonight. Below is what I have from memory though: -2 enemies are spawned at the start of the stage, one on the left and one on the right. Killing either will cause more enemies to spawn on the other side. -The 2nd "wave" has one enemy spawn on the left, one on the right, and 2 in the middle. They are not active until you reach that particular area. -After this point things get messy and I don't know the exact conditions for enemies to appear. My strategy is as follows: --Stay just left of the bridge and use aerial mines to kill as many of the units as possible. One will spawn on the left and one will spawn in the middle in the air. Then another will spawn just left of the bridge and another will come from the left. --After, proceed right and two more will spawn from above. Take them out with mines and continue right. --As you go down the second slope a unit should come towards you from the right. Kill it, then turn around and go back toward the bridge. Two more units will spawn from above. --Wait to the left of the bridge; two more units will spawn from the left. I usually kill one of them and start moving back right and the other one will chase me. --Move all the way back to the right and down the 2nd slope. If you're quick enough you can get underneath a mech that spawns in the sky and then moves to the right where you can't hit him. --Move back a little to the left and just wait for another 6-7 units to spawn. They should all appear in range. After the last grouping, head left and you should find one more unit. The last unit to spawn always appears from the sky just to the left of the bridge. I will try to flesh it out a bit more when I get home; I think it's mostly correct, but I may be off by a mech or two. Sorry I can't be more helpful with the amounts or trigger conditions.

Posted: 7/2/2013 8:25 PM

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Dooty

Expert player (2584)

Joined: 6/2/2009
Posts: 1182
Location: Teresópolis - Rio de Janeiro - Brazil

Thank you, I'll test it too at home. about the stage 5; The auto cannon below the bridge open the path to me; it shoots on the bridge and on the thin ice. I have to backtrack a little, but surprisingly, there are no enemies on my way. edit: I was wrong about switching to Havoc; it is possible to reach the boss and kill it with Ballistic!!! I’m still working on stage 4, so it’s not optimized, but it’s roughly 1000 frames faster than Nitro; http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/7673380551225240 and about Pasky13's script; It works pretty well, but if you ever have interest in working on it again; - A feature that I’d like to see in your script; a pilot's speedometer display. Unlike the mech’s speed address, the pilot’s address changes all the time, so it’s hard to keep searching for memory addresses every time I need to get out of the mech to press a switch or finish a stage that requires the pilot alone.

I am old enough to know better, but not enough to do it.

Posted: 7/3/2013 2:31 PM

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Omnigamer

Player (33)

Joined: 2/16/2012
Posts: 282

Sounds great Dooty! I can't wait to see it tonight. I'm not sure if you already use this or not, but you can clip through the first small barrier (before the ON switch) with a Ballistic charge. I haven't done it but it was in one of the trick videos. The setup was just going to the far right on the ledge and then doing the charge. I guess you have enough speed that it just doesn't collide with the laser tube thing. Could save a couple of seconds.

Posted: 7/3/2013 3:34 PM
(Edited: 7/8/2013 5:53 PM)

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Dooty

Expert player (2584)

Joined: 6/2/2009
Posts: 1182
Location: Teresópolis - Rio de Janeiro - Brazil

Yes, it is there, but one thing I tryed without success is passing through the green barrier, it would save a huge amount of time... edit; More notes about what’s needed to complete stage 4; - 24 enemies must be killed to finish the stage Some enemies will flee when shot, hence my pseudo 20 kills - There are checkpoints you must reach to spawn them No matter how long you wait in one spot, they won’t spawn - If you spawn more than 24 enemies you must kill them too That’s why I’ve killed 27 in my last wip to finish the stage Talking about mistakes, these are the real shared addresses;

HP  : from 0X00422/0X004A2 to 0X00D22/0X00DA2
Hpos: from 0X0040C/0X0048C to 0X00D0C/0X00D8C
Vpos: from 0X0040E/0X0048E to 0X00D0E/0X00D8E
Hspd: from 0x0041A/0x0049A to 0x00D1A/0x00D9A
Vspd: from 0x00418/0x00498 to 0x00D18/0x00D98

Hspd/Vspd (horizontal/vertical speed) working with all enemies now. It's on my new Lua script, but it's ugly, lots of "gui.text()"... anyways, still no new Stage 4, sorry about it, I'm working on other stages before Stage 4 pisses me off, I'll try it again after that.

I am old enough to know better, but not enough to do it.

Posted: 7/4/2013 4:13 PM

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Omnigamer

Player (33)

Joined: 2/16/2012
Posts: 282

Sorry I can't be of more help on stage 4 :-/ I have a lot of frustrations with it in real-time runs as well. I tried to dig in and find some addresses related to the directions bombs push you in, but I still came up blank. I might have found a clue though: I can manipulate the direction of the first bomb in stage 5 by dropping down at the start and forcing one of the infantry to spawn. I'll keep checking, but for now it may be something related to the order that enemies spawn in. I also tried to dig around and find any sort of flag or otherwise that lets you clip through the beam barriers. Couldn't find much, but I have a feeling it's related to the bomb directions. For example, it might be some overall mechanic of just saying "for explosions, you will be pushed down and to the right" for a given object or timeframe. If that property carries over to the barriers, it makes sense that getting boosted to the right would still hold for the barriers, and they would essentially be pushing you through them. I still don't have any evidence to support this though.

Posted: 7/9/2013 4:26 PM

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Dooty

Expert player (2584)

Joined: 6/2/2009
Posts: 1182
Location: Teresópolis - Rio de Janeiro - Brazil

Thank you for your effort, Omnigamer, but you are wrong about one thing;

Omnigamer wrote:

Sorry I can't be of more help on stage 4 :-/

You already gave me a faster solution for Stage 4 some time ago;

Omnigamer wrote:

If you get out and fly around...

Since going up didn't work I thought it wouldn't help, I was wrong! With the new discoveries of checkpoints and the need to kill just 24 enemies, and since the pilot can reach them 2 or 3 times faster than the Mech, this strategy is working like a charm! New Stage 4 soon...

I am old enough to know better, but not enough to do it.

Posted: 7/9/2013 9:49 PM

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Omnigamer

Player (33)

Joined: 2/16/2012
Posts: 282

You have probably noticed, but you can also sometimes force enemies to push your empty mech around much faster than it can walk. I'm not sure what you've come up with, but it might be useful somewhere along the way. I've only done it once or twice by accident, but having you on one side and an enemy on the other will sometimes cause the enemy to just chase after you without firing.

Posted: 7/11/2013 2:25 PM

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Dooty

Expert player (2584)

Joined: 6/2/2009
Posts: 1182
Location: Teresópolis - Rio de Janeiro - Brazil

Yeah, that happen with the first enemy on my new try, but... although I can kill the first ten or so enemies faster than my first try, I'm still killing more than 24 enemies, thus finishng the stage at, and I'm not kidding nor lying, the same time :( I was so excited with the new strategy that I was not taking into account the time needed to exit/enter the Mech...

I am old enough to know better, but not enough to do it.

Posted: 7/11/2013 8:08 PM

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Omnigamer

Player (33)

Joined: 2/16/2012
Posts: 282

Could you elaborate on the "checkpoints" a bit more? It sounds like you have to trigger a certain number of enemies for a checkpoint to be available, and then triggering it will move into the next phase. Are you tracking it based on experience or some memory addresses?

Posted: 7/13/2013 5:11 PM

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Dooty

Expert player (2584)

Joined: 6/2/2009
Posts: 1182
Location: Teresópolis - Rio de Janeiro - Brazil

Sorry for the delay... I call it checkpoint, but don't know if it's the correct way to call it; sometimes when you stay at the center of the stage, the enemies won't appear, no matter how long you wait. going a few steps to the right or to the left causes them to appear again, so there may be some kind of checkpoint system on this stage. anyway, I gave up the stage 4 for now, I'm already working on stage 6. but I must redo some previous stages, I found a more optimized way to control the pilot around. edit: http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/7945970220117717

I am old enough to know better, but not enough to do it.

Posted: 7/15/2013 10:05 PM

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Omnigamer

Player (33)

Joined: 2/16/2012
Posts: 282

The WIP looks awesome! Very clever to not take Spider all the way through. The remaining stages should be fairly cut-and-dry unless you find something radically new with them. There just aren't many ways to get through unless you can clip through the moving platforms. I do think you can get a larger boost from the missiles in the middle of 6-1 though; the speed boost you get should continue regardless of if your sprite is stuck on the cannons. Also, your rockets will occasionally fly right over the cannons and go all the way to the breakable blocks behind them.

Posted: 7/17/2013 4:36 PM

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Dooty

Expert player (2584)

Joined: 6/2/2009
Posts: 1182
Location: Teresópolis - Rio de Janeiro - Brazil

Yeah, the rockets can boost the Mech up to 20 (in the wip it's only 10), but I found it slower to wait for more rockets. (I'll make sure to try a better manipulation on the v2 of this run though) edit: a little update, I mean, lack of update :( stage 7 is my new nemesis; it's really easy to make mistakes there, so it will take some time...

I am old enough to know better, but not enough to do it.

Posted: 7/29/2013 6:35 AM

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Omnigamer

Player (33)

Joined: 2/16/2012
Posts: 282

Stage 7 can be pretty messy, yeah. There are a number of routes through the level, but it's hard to say which is optimal with the tools you have available. You may be able to proceed much quicker with booster than with rockets, but I don't know how you'd get through the second wall without dropping down to pick up the rockets.

Posted: 7/30/2013 1:41 PM

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Dooty

Expert player (2584)

Joined: 6/2/2009
Posts: 1182
Location: Teresópolis - Rio de Janeiro - Brazil

A painful stage indeed, but finally some progress: http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/8273137775208706 and here's a "desired" screenshot:

Omnigamer wrote:

Stage 8 -Again, being able to clip in to the wall somewhere around 1500 horizontal would allow you to zip all the way to the top of the stage.

The wip ends near that spot, so I'll try to make it happen, wish me luck... edit: It didn't happen... but the stage went pretty smoothly, and I'm now working on the Final Mission.

I am old enough to know better, but not enough to do it.

Posted: 8/1/2013 4:24 AM

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Omnigamer

Player (33)

Joined: 2/16/2012
Posts: 282

Sorry to hear that :-/ I checked as many places as possible, but I didn't see a good way to set it up either. Oh well. 9-1 should be pretty straightforward, but 9-2 is pretty dumb. Taking out the boss quickly is pretty important, but most of the time is lost while waiting on the moving walls. Then again, if you can find some way to clip in and get to the top of the map, you can skip the boss entirely. Good luck.

Posted: 8/1/2013 2:46 PM

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Dooty

Expert player (2584)

Joined: 6/2/2009
Posts: 1182
Location: Teresópolis - Rio de Janeiro - Brazil

Thank you! The run is almost complete, and I guess it will be under 15 minutes! (or so I hope) Here's another mistake to be fixed in the v2 of this run, but too late to fix now: I noticed that you skipped some of the text in your run faster than I did in my run, but it took me a lot of time to realize that you changed your pilot’s name to “K”! (can save ~3 seconds in the long run)

I am old enough to know better, but not enough to do it.

Posted: 8/1/2013 3:03 PM

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Omnigamer

Player (33)

Joined: 2/16/2012
Posts: 282

I was not sure if changing the name is faster in a TAS setting. It takes one extra frame per character in the name, but to set it up at the beginning takes an additional 70ish frames. I didn't count the number of times the name is used, but I felt that the time spent to change the letters was more than the potential savings. If it does save time though, then it is something to try out.

Posted: 8/1/2013 4:02 PM

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Dooty

Expert player (2584)

Joined: 6/2/2009
Posts: 1182
Location: Teresópolis - Rio de Janeiro - Brazil

Some of the texts are drastically reduced in your run, for example, at the end of stage 9's first part, the text stops after your pilot's name, but in my run it takes 60 frames for me to be able to skip it after "Stone". The guy says something about an underground base which it's not shown in your run.

I am old enough to know better, but not enough to do it.

Posted: 8/1/2013 5:57 PM

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Omnigamer

Player (33)

Joined: 2/16/2012
Posts: 282

That may explain some of the strange bugs I've encountered, then. In stage 2 for example it occasionally gets stuck in the "text-writing" sequence when it writes out the (one-character) name and just keeps repeating that character for as long as B is pressed. It eventually overflows the text box and continues a ways before the screen goes black and the music eventually stops. Some other known bugs are in stage 3 and 8, where exiting a dialogue box before the music changes will cause the game to softlock. This happens specifically on the dialog box when you approach the enemy ship (stage 3) and during the boss speech (stage 8). I've also had a few occasions where the game didn't softlock but the music was very messed up or frozen until I finished the stage and it loaded a new track.