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Aye.
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*gives in* oh, alright.
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This is great news. It shouldn't be too hard to get some more MK64 experts intrested in this, I bet they would have some ideas for improvement. Anyone posting the videos on the MK64 forums?
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Already got it covered. (the topic was originally something different, and I changed it, so my real 150cc progress doesn't start until halfway on the first page, and officially on the 2nd page.) So yes, I already go there for ideas, and post my videos for them to see as well. I'm TASing this for two audiences :-p When it comes down to it, my main MK64 helpers are Fried and Weatherton. Occasionally another Karter at the other site will make a suggestion, as was for the original Luigi Raceway route, but I keep open to all ideas from anyone. And pretty much all the kart experts at that site are interested in this :-p edit: weatherton is currently encoding the flower cup test run. edit: Flower Cup test Run
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Post subject: Re: Flower Cup Test Run present
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comicalflop wrote:
When it comes down to it, my main MK64 helpers are Fried and Weatherton. ... Flower Cup test Run
Dear Comicalflop and friends, Please stop breaking my favourite childhood games. Honestly, the nightmares are keeping me up at night. Thanks. (good job btw)
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As a percentage, how far through the game are you now?
do not forget to *ENJOY THE SAUCE*
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12.8%. Give or take. Of course, that's based on the number of laps in the game total. The laps themselves will all vary in terms of time, so it's hard to accurately say.
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Post subject: Re: Flower Cup Test Run present
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comicalflop wrote:
edit: Flower Cup test Run
LOL @ Toad on Choco raceway: "AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHH'm the best!!"
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A couple of notes: I am writing a commentary for the test run, hopefully that is done tomorrow. Also, I encoded it but the audio desynced. So, I think I will try different settings later. In the mean time, enjoy.
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Was the SC you took on CM optimized? (Talking about the one where you jump the wall and land on the other part of the track.) You got a great jump, but after you landed you kinda hugged the right wall, don't know if that was slower or not.
Post subject: Flower Cup Test Commentary
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Flower Cup test run by Drew Weatherton, done first week of April, 2007: Comments: Once again, I chose Toad so that I could get the maximum hops off of cpu players in case it was necessary (and CM shows that it probably is). In general this test run has sub-optimal MT's and some avoidable wall-hits, this sort of thing (obviously) would not be present in the final product. The goal of this test run was just to go through the levels and try out several strategies as a proof-of-concept. Toad's Turnpike: Used the regular Time Trials SC strat, this uses the "Lakitu Effect" to be able to jump off the overpass. The Lakitu Effect occurs in the moments after Lakitu puts you down when you can drive on polygons that Lakitu normally considers out of bounds, I get placed about as far away from the overpass as I can before the effect would wear off. Please keep in mind that for the 2nd and 3rd SC's to work, I need to be sure not to cut this first jump too much and end up going over the water. If that happens, for some reason the later SC's will not work properly and you will be placed back right where you jumped off. Item usage: I made sure that every item I picked up was a ghost and then manipulated a shroom with that ghost. From my testing, you can only manipulate items you could usually get in first place and what item you get depends on button input. When you press Z the random item generator is seeded and gives a result. In one spot in this race I had a difficult time manipulating a shroom and was in a tight spot, so I gave up (this is a test run after all and I made the whole thing in a couple days). Also, please note that it is likely not possible to receive two items during a single pit stop area. There is less than 30 frames between the first box and the last so it seems unlikely one could manipulate a shroom from the first, use it and then grab the last one (at least not at top speed). Frappe Snowland: Unfortunately, no shrooms = slower than the WR no matter what we do. I used the standard 3-lap strategy with "going left." I have since discovered that the fastest way to turn around is actually: 127 left or right and 120 down (as opposed to 127 for both). So, this is one place to save time. Also, I should have let go of B as soon as I was on the snow and the shroom had worn off. I didn't spend much time with it but I think my spin out may have been faster than going around the section of snow that Lakitu would normally grab you on. Also, on the second part of lap 2, I use the tree to bump me over for a shorter path. I go to a different spot on this lap so that I can be placed in front of the bridge. This should be compared to ensure that it is faster but I just wanted to demonstrate that it was possible. I'd bet there is over .5 seconds to be saved on the final product but it will never break the WR. By the way, the flap strategy would be slower to use in a three lap even in a TAS; the setup takes too long. Besides, it would require a shroom. Choco Mountain: Now this is a fun level. So many options, instead of describing what I did, I will describe what I think the optimum path will be. Start off the first lap as normal, manipulate a shroom and as soon as you exit the tunnel, run into the wall on the left (or possibly right). AB spin and shroom back into the tunnel at a heavyweight (DK or Wario might work but it may end up requiring Bowser). May need to do a left facing slide when shrooming to get the right angle and enough speed. Nail a huge jump similar to what I do on lap 3 in the test run but after passing the finish line (must be a few kart lengths inside of the pole) get stuck up on a polygon that tricks Lakitu into putting you down below the finish line in the tunnel (there are several of these a bit beyond where I hit in lap 3). From tunnel, do race as normal, do perfect regular SC (probably have to do it without a shroom so that the last lap can be done) and follow the same strat as my lap 2 to finish lap and end up in the tunnel underneath. AB spin shroom back into the tunnel at a heavyweight character to finish similarly to how I did in the test run (hopefully a cpu is nearby to do this). Of course, the strat will depend heavily on where the heavyweight cpus are. It may be possible to get up to the road with a middleweight but, based on my experiences, I doubt a lightweight would be sufficient. If only a lightweight is accessible, it may be possible to hit the polygon to the left as you exit the tunnel that would cause Lakitu to put you up near the finish line. Of course, Lakitu warps waste a lot of time if they can be skipped. Mario Raceway: This course was completely experimental, no laps used the fastest strategy. However, I captured several potential pieces to the puzzle. To start things off, the cpu jump over the wall was something I had planned for some time now. However, I had not thought about where the item boxes are in this level until I got to it and cleared the wall. Turns out, clearing the wall like this means skipping the first set of item boxes. It also, as a result, means I don’t have a shroom to perform the main SC. No matter, I managed to do what many thought impossible and cleared the wall (on the faster side of the T) shroomless. The problem here is that, without a shroom, the trip across the grass takes a while. I decided to go for the item boxes and grab a shroom but, as it turns out, that was probably not worth it. So, lap 1 on Mario Raceway actually ends up being significantly slower than the next two laps. This should not happen on this course as the shroom boost at the start lets players cut the first corner better than on the next two laps, usually resulting in the fastest lap in a Time Trials 3lap. It may be that going for the item box after the start killed a lot of time. I don’t know, but it also might mean that the regular SC strategy (and picking up the item box on the first turn) is faster. More testing will be needed. Also, please note, a SC like lap 3 of LR is likely possible on this course. Whether this is faster will depend on cpu positioning as it does not appear to be possible on lap 1. Laps 2 and 3 were uneventful compared to the regular SC strategy (and, in fact were quite sub-optimally executed but remember this is intended as a strategy search, not a submission). The only notable part was on lap 2, on the last corner, I use the shroom and manage to capture a “sticky shroom” on .m64. The cause of this has been a mystery to the Mario Kart 64 community until now. As you can see, it results from bumping off of the steep polygon near the corner and staying closer to the ground as a result. Of course, Michael Fried, upon watching this .m64, says that the turn he makes in his Time Trials TAS is faster. Still, perhaps more experimentation is warranted.
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Nice explanations, and good job on taking the time to have explored all these and record it into one play through of flower cup. I just heavily tested the star strat that was suggested. It is FAR slower. I was a good 3 seconds behind most of the time, and really lost out at the end... I got a star to last all the way to the 4th set of item boxes, but at that exact time, I had, using mushrooms, completed the 1st lap. I also have some good news: The Special cup test run is also pretty much complete, and is just as amazing as the flower cup one. This means that almost every cup has a test run already made, so that less time has to be spent in mapping out certain routes and ideas. Star cup is the only one without a concrete full run through test run yet, but that has some very difficult courses with many routes and ballsy, untested strats. Also, KD is pretty much mapped out, but KTB is still one massive question mark, but MMF progress is I'm delighted and miffed to say is back to being worked on diligently, but still is way behind schedule since the 1 month per course benchmark was passed 10 days ago. Edit: 3 frames saved in MMF, and most likely many more, as I completed the lap without the shroom, and was only 0.08 seconds behind the version I posted where I did use the shroom. So it looks like progress on this seems to speed up the more I work on this, and also with the less projects I have to worry about. This is a good sign I can tell.
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Post subject: Re: Flower Cup Test Commentary
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Weatherton wrote:
Lakitu warps waste a lot of time if they can be skipped.
so if they can't be skipped then they don't waste a lot of time? :p
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Weatherton wrote: Lakitu warps waste a lot of time if they can be skipped. so if they can't be skipped then they don't waste a lot of time? :p
While both those statements are a bit strange I believe they are both still correct. It depends on your definition of waste. If they can’t be skipped then aren’t wasting time as the time must be spent this way; they are merely using time.
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OK, quoting from the IRC channel:
<NesVideoAgent> New reply by Spider-Waffle (N64gam: Mario Kart 64): http://tasvideos.org/forum/p/126221 [...] <NesVideoAgent> Post edited by Spider-Waffle (N64gam: Mario Kart 64): http://tasvideos.org/forum/p/126221#126221 <NesVideoAgent> Post edited by Spider-Waffle (N64gam: Mario Kart 64): http://tasvideos.org/forum/p/126221#126221 <NesVideoAgent> Post edited by Spider-Waffle (N64gam: Mario Kart 64): http://tasvideos.org/forum/p/126221#126221
I have X-Chat configured to alert me to new posts and edits in the forum. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE use the minor edit function!!!
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Deep Loner wrote:
OK, quoting from the IRC channel:
<tt><NesVideoAgent> New reply by Spider-Waffle (N64gam: Mario Kart 64): http://tasvideos.org/forum/p/126221 [...] <NesVideoAgent> Post edited by Spider-Waffle (N64gam: Mario Kart 64): http://tasvideos.org/forum/p/126221#126221 <NesVideoAgent> Post edited by Spider-Waffle (N64gam: Mario Kart 64): http://tasvideos.org/forum/p/126221#126221 <NesVideoAgent> Post edited by Spider-Waffle (N64gam: Mario Kart 64): http://tasvideos.org/forum/p/126221#126221</tt>
I have X-Chat configured to alert me to new posts and edits in the forum. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE use the minor edit function!!!
I can't help but wonder WHAT was being edited in that post, it seems so simple... Did it used to be longer than three sentences? Note to all, you may want to check the workbench later on tonight...
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Weatherton wrote:
Note to all, you may want to check the workbench later on tonight...
WOOHOO!! I knew you were going behind Comicalflop's back and making your own MK64 run to submit before he has his perfected ;)
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mmbossman wrote:
Weatherton wrote:
Note to all, you may want to check the workbench later on tonight...
WOOHOO!! I knew you were going behind Comicalflop's back and making your own MK64 run to submit before he has his perfected ;)
Ugh, that's A) not what happened, and B) something that actually makes me INCREDIBLY aggravated. Expect a lengthy, opinionated article as soon as said thing becomes submitted.
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Ummm guess I should have put a winky face or something cuz I was totally joking. I really have no idea what Weatherton was working on/submitting. And it would be a pretty dick thing to do if he had done that, which I don't expect anyone on this board to do. Sorry if I pushed some wrong buttons. EDIT: When I said it would be a dick move, I was thinking if Weatherton were submitting a full 100% run. That wouldn't have been cool. However, his completed movie, while somewhat controversial, is totally within his right IMO.
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My problem is 0% to do with weatherton and 100% to do with what he plans on submitting. you'll see when it comes.
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Oh, ok, I thought your opinionated article of aggravation would be aimed at me. Just misinterpreted some things.
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you thought you was said to become submitted?
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Any progress chemocal flop? what you started with was amazing, wondering if you are planning to continue.
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