Topic by Comicalflop

Posted: 11/22/2006 7:11 AM

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Comicalflop

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Maybe I start Terran campaign instead, Protoss is very hard and I don;t have motivation to finish mission 1 on Protoss due to frustrations with Zeratul not acting like a good speedrunner... Plus I'll start the mission by going in menu and increasing speed, see if that does anything. If desynchs continue, or if something as simple as Terran Mission 1 proves to be too difficult, then bummer. The thing that scares me the most about this is not just how many different options/strategies there are, but on finding the fastest possible moment to rush and end the mission, or even just mircro/macro managing. I'll switch campaigns and see what happens.

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Posted: 11/22/2006 7:51 AM

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asteron

Joined: 2/16/2005
Posts: 462

Please dont get discouraged! I know a lot of people would just love to see this run happen :) myself included. We are all rooting for you!

This signature is much better than its previous version.

Posted: 11/22/2006 4:43 PM

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Comicalflop

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I'll start Terran, and maybe try out the mouse plugin that was suggested in Command and Conquer. Although how it would work in frame advance is beyond me. I think just the biggest problem is that units have no focus when moving somewhere, they see an enemy in range they attack, even if you're pressing move every other frame.

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Posted: 11/22/2006 10:21 PM

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Kitsune

Joined: 4/29/2005
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I'd love to see a Zerg run. They are my favorite race. Just because they're big bad alien bugs that regenerate health and spit acid. :3 Well, some of them spit acid. ;3

Posted: 11/23/2006 12:05 AM

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Comicalflop

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My brother reminded me that Zerg is the fastest race but they do have 10 missions. Protoss are indeed quite slow, so hopefully strategy wise Terrans will work better for me, and maybe next I'll do Zerg and simply leave Protoss alone. This is of course all assuming desynchs don't rear their ugly heads. and if this game doesn't scare me away.

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Posted: 11/27/2006 4:26 AM

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captainobvious

Joined: 7/1/2005
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Location: Central Pennsylvania, USA

Starting with Terran(campaign1) is probably a good idea. The missions are simple, fairly quick, and will let you get used to the ordinary game. AND it's the first campaign, so you can go through in 'chronological' order =). Or any order, if you choose.

That's what she said!

Posted: 11/27/2006 4:46 AM

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Comicalflop

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Nono, Terran Brood War was what I was thinking... although maybe Terran vanilla would be a good start. Oh wait, the Terran vanilla has many starting missions with "fastest strategy is lead units past enemies" (if I recall correctly) so actually that's a no go. I think after reviewing the BW campaigns on SDA that Terran has the least missions with "bring _____ to location)" so that I can avoid those headaches. Protoss BW: 3 missions to bring 1 unit to location Terran BW: 2 missions, last one doesn't count because medics can be air lifted to their destination as in SDA run Zerg BW: 1 mission to bring 1 unit to 4 locations I'm assuming missions with "so-and-so must survive" don't count, those I'm not trying to run past enemies but to protect So overall, I'm guessing that Terran BW is first, Zerg BW 2nd, and Protoss BW last (or not at all.) plus Protoss are the slowest race and, despite being the first campaign in BW is the hardest to control on the N64. I have of course not yet looked at the vanilla 3 campaigns, but I should probably give those a looksie as well, and see if any there are easier/better to do, especially since it was the first/easier game and really only 6 units less of the 3 races. My final goal is to have all 6 campaigns complete as 6 seperate submissions, not nescissarily completed in order but in preference. But let's see if I can get one out before that happens.

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Posted: 11/27/2006 9:15 AM

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Truncated

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>Oh wait, the Terran vanilla has many starting missions with "fastest strategy is lead units past enemies" (if I recall correctly) so actually that's a no go. If all those missions are a no go, then pretty much any campaign is a no go. Many missions, not just the escort ones, rely on "run past enemies to reach beacon / kill unit / raze building". Until you figure out how to bypass enemies, there's not much sense in trying any campaign.

Posted: 11/27/2006 1:10 PM

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Comicalflop

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Air Transport Units do not stop to attack, they go straight to their destination without pausing, as do all other units that do not physically attack. I'm pretty sure that there is a vast majority of "destroy all enemy structures" missions where you build up forces at your base, occassionally an enemy will come that you have to destroy, but in the end you send massive waves of units and at that point you just let the units destroy everything they see, and occassionally tell them to target new structures/enemies. And the game is too good to let alone, so I'll try to work around this little problem.

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Posted: 1/3/2007 6:30 AM

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Comicalflop

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did some more noodling with this, here's some thoughts: like JFG and a few other N64 games (Majora's Mask, Command and Conquer), it keeps save data in a .fla file in the mupen save file directory. I think this is what was causing me to desynch, but I'm not 100% sure. it could still be a desynching game, which would be frustrating for everyone, but I only found out about this game having a .fla file later on after I abandoned this. going into the menu and selecting fastest speed is a must. it does not get the truest speed that is attainable on the PC, but maximum 100% speed is doable in the game, and should be done. To get around the "stop to attack enemies" problem: for the very patient TASers (for anyone who wants to try this, I highly recommend it as the end result would be very good) there is a mostly successful way around this: when a unit moves along beside an enemy, it will stop to attack, pressing 'move' (one of the c-buttons) every other frame has a moderate chance of it working, sometimes the unit will pause for 5ish frames, then keep going to his destination. HOWEVER: by not pressing the c button every other frame, and waiting, and within a 10 frame range- 5 before the exact frame that the unit stops, and 5 after- pressing the c button on one of those ten frames, the unit will actually skip by. it'd be frustrating finding that exact frame to tell the unit to move and ignore the enemy, but it is there. Sometimes, a unit will just walk too closely to an enemy and will be overwhelmed; if a moderate distance is kept, and finding the exact frame to press 'move' to make the unit ignore his/her urge, it should work.

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Posted: 1/3/2007 12:59 PM

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kirbymuncher

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Just a random and probably completely stupid thought, couldn't you go to the diplomacy menu and make the enemies your allies so that your guys won't attack them?

Posted: 1/3/2007 3:37 PM

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Comicalflop

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not in campaigns I don't think (that'd ruin the experience wouldn't it?). In multiplayer you probably can.

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Posted: 3/12/2007 3:45 PM

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meepers

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Joined: 12/18/2005
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I've got dibs on this! Probably shouldn't, since I've got 3 other projects but meh. =( This game is too fun. I'll try my best with the graphical errors though. x.x I didn't have any problem moving Zeratul in real-time past enemies.... My only question is going campaign by campaign (one race at a time reg OR BW), story-mode (sequential order), or do-whatever-I/you-want-mode. :S

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Posted: 3/12/2007 5:48 PM

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Comicalflop

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Ok. time for some scolding, some praise, and then as much advice as I can provide. Scold: no!!!!!!! stick with Starfox 64 and Sin and Punishment! This game I found will be really frustrating... it desynchs (since it is one of the 4 N64 games that heavily relies on the Exp Pak in order to include the BW campaigns), and will require many many many many many many many rerecords in order to find the optimal time to end a mission with one final attack. Also, before recording remember to delete the .fla file in the mupen save file directroy before recording, then whenever attempting to watch from the very beginning, delete the file before watching. this will minimize non-exp pak desynchs. Praise: This would look sooooo cool if done. (but will require a lot of motivation, dedication, and time/effort.) A full run would be all 6 campaigns. I think that, at the moment, due to the difficulties and that we don't know how long it will take to do all 6, we should only do one, and see what happens. You can do any campaign in any order, and based on my initial problems with it and lots of thinking/planning, concluded that BW Zerg and BW Terran would be the best campaigns to TAS first. (if you're going to end up doing them in order, then do them in order- I don't recommend it- but individually, BWTerran and BWZerg are the best, trust me. either one.) I love your work, and know full well that you're a starcraft fan/player, so I know you'd do a wonderful job on this. Advice: I'd say do whatever you want mode. BW Zerg or BW Terran. Once you get to the very first mission, pause the game, go to options, and increase the speed to max. Go to SDA; they have PC speedruns of every single mission. (they are incredibly fun to watch as well. if you are going to do this, I might just redownload the campaign you're doing.) Linkie for Vanilla Campaigns Linkie for Brood war campaigns read through this entire thread. there is an improvements route by Flagitious of how to improve the SDA times, as well as one discovered strat that saves minutes on some Terran mission, I forget which one. Also within this thread is a list of all the command shortcuts, most of which will be very useful. Such as quickly selecting a building to make, selecting certain types of units, making a map "savestate" with the D-Pad that you can use to monitor different bases/attack zones (very helpful). make sure you know them all. and finally, I have a Link to the most comprehensive Starcraft site ever. This has complete advanced/basic strats, has many members who'd love to become a mentor/guru or give information, and lots of other goodies. "It will be done!" Good luck!

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Posted: 3/14/2007 9:44 AM

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Kitsune

Joined: 4/29/2005
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Well, the starting Terran Campaign actually has a 30 minute stage. But it flies by like nothing de to constant Zerg attacks. Each attack force being bigger than the last. For that Level, I found blocking off the roads with Bunkers full of four Infantry each do the job well. All you have to remember is to repair the Bunkers damaged after each onslaught. I don't know if there are any other levels like that one. But otherwise, I think all of the levels are fairly short. When playing as the Zerg however, the biggest thing you have to worry about are those big ass Siege Tanks the Terran have. The Protoss are fairly easy, even with their Energy Shielding. Yes, you hit a PC game I have knowledge of somewhat, which has no real difference from the Playstation or N64 versions. xD You should at the most 6-10 Drones or whatever are used, to mine Minerals, and at least 3-6 mining Gases. Hydralisks are the only creatures you really have to look out for when going against the Zerg with the Protoss or the Terran. Otherwise they are all fairly weak, even the flyers. As the terran, your best bet is to combine Firebats with the Marines, and Snipers when you are able to get them. I don't have a lot of experience with the Protoss, except that Dragoons are well adapted at fighting just about anything, they will be good attack forces in large groups. That is all I have at the moment. ;3

Posted: 3/14/2007 11:43 PM

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RT-55J

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Kitsune wrote:

Well, the starting Terran Campaign actually has a 30 minute stage. But it flies by like nothing de to constant Zerg attacks. Each attack force being bigger than the last. For that Level, I found blocking off the roads with Bunkers full of four Infantry each do the job well. All you have to remember is to repair the Bunkers damaged after each onslaught.

You could always leave the base and attack the Zerg before they attack you. It's easily possible to destroy every single enemy unit in the time allotted, but even then the level doesn't actually end until the time is up, so you would just end up doing nothing for 20 minutes IIRC. I think it would be much more entertaining to try to end the level with the whole base, expect for one unit, destroyed.

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Posted: 3/14/2007 11:45 PM

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Comicalflop

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Nah, spend the 30 minutes making the Zerg's efforts in vain, by toying with them, counterattacking, and making all their rushes fruitless.

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Posted: 3/15/2007 8:38 AM

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Kitsune

Joined: 4/29/2005
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If you leave the whole base defenseless, be prepared to lose the level. Near the end of the thirty minutes, all of the Zerg Forces will attack in one final strike. I think in the PC version even if you beat all of the current forces, there were still about a hundred of them waiting to attack and lay waste to your base. It's been a while since I played though. I personally find it funny to watch the whole horde of them attacking a bunch of bunkers only to get mowed down by the Marines hiding in them, hehe. :3 Well. I don't have anything else to add really. ;3

Posted: 3/15/2007 3:29 PM

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meepers

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Joined: 12/18/2005
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Micromanagement in this game is serious business. ... and an extreme pain in the arse. *will upload a WIP of Z01 sometime* It's not that hard to run the zergling throughout the whole map, but the whole BC issue next mission will be something else. I figure this could be like, a concept demo with a description of "ZERG RUSH KEKEKEKEKE ^_^" or something. =] Edit: Needless to say, I'm doing zerg first, not terran. =/ Also, is there any way to check time during a game, or do you just have to hope for the best and redo if you don't get it?

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Posted: 3/15/2007 3:36 PM
(Edited: 3/25/2007 11:08 PM)

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Comicalflop

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Micro management is a pain. however, just wait until you have to macro as well. Concept demo? nah, it should fit in the N64 section. one campaign will, for the time being, count as a game completion, as you get to end credits and all. it should move to the concept if at a later time all 6 missions are completed. In-game time is checked at the end, when it shows the stats of the mission i.e. how many units killed, points, buildings razed, etc. How's the desynch situation?

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Posted: 3/15/2007 3:38 PM

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meepers

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Sorry, I meant time BEFORE a mission is completed.

Vidar wrote:

Also, is there any way to check time during a game before the mission is over, or do you just have to hope for the best and redo if you don't get it?

So yeah. Question stands still. =[

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Posted: 3/15/2007 3:40 PM
(Edited: 4/24/2007 4:13 AM)

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Comicalflop

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use the frame counter and calculate. Or use a stop watch during read-only mode.

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Posted: 3/15/2007 6:16 PM

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OmnipotentEntity

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Kitsune wrote:

If you leave the whole base defenseless, be prepared to lose the level. Near the end of the thirty minutes, all of the Zerg Forces will attack in one final strike. I think in the PC version even if you beat all of the current forces, there were still about a hundred of them waiting to attack and lay waste to your base. It's been a while since I played though. I personally find it funny to watch the whole horde of them attacking a bunch of bunkers only to get mowed down by the Marines hiding in them, hehe. :3 Well. I don't have anything else to add really. ;3

If you can take out the base in about 10 minutes, just use the other 20 to build up, and then find the spawning point for the last wave and camp it Maybe even build walls around it. "Like shooting fish in a barrel."

Build a man a fire, warm him for a day, Set a man on fire, warm him for the rest of his life.

Posted: 3/15/2007 6:24 PM

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JSmith

Joined: 8/1/2006
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I'd like to see an entire wave annihilated by 1 or 2 Vultures' worth of well-placed mines. EDIT:Even better, just mine the spawn point and watch them appear and get instantly blown up.

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Posted: 3/16/2007 7:59 PM

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Bp_

Joined: 11/30/2005
Posts: 81
Location: Quebec

when you will actualy starting to do a run, tell it and I will unlock the mission in mine so I can help find some start ^- ^ I'm pretty sure PC and n64 version are same? for the mission?