Player (36)
Joined: 9/11/2004
Posts: 2623
After the key. Because there was a statue in the room with the key (takes a full heart at a time), and there's a passage to the right without having to go north. (That was blocked by a sandtrap+wormthing, >.<) The arrows were very close to the path, (it even saved me ~5 frames coming back through that room), and I know I'll need arrows in Hyrule Castle. Dashing is 3 times faster than walking normally. Whereas, walking diagonally is only around 1.5 times faster. So ignoring the dash startup time, it's always faster to go as far as possible without overshooting and then go perpendicular. However, to be honest I didn't test the way with the diagonal. But the enemy shouldn't be that much of a problem, those guys are realitely easy to manipulate. I'll test it. I have a strong feeling it'll be slower, though. EDIT: I'm pretty sure I did, I think I remember it being slower because of a combination of the sword taking so long to charge and the fact that you walk slower with your sword out. But I can't be certain. I'll test that again too.
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Player (36)
Joined: 9/11/2004
Posts: 2623
Madzombie wrote:
I never knew you could skip killing the enemies in the Eastern Palace room with the 4 pink bubbles surrounding a pot.
Sorry, I missed this post, this would probably not be advisable in a console run because of how much health you lose and how exact the timing has to be. The only reason why I discovered it is because I was messing around with frame advance.
Build a man a fire, warm him for a day, Set a man on fire, warm him for the rest of his life.
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OmnipotentEntity wrote:
this would probably not be advisable in a console run because of how much health you lose and how exact the timing has to be. The only reason why I discovered it is because I was messing around with frame advance.
Maybe it's not good advice for a normal playthrough, but for someone speedrunning the game I think it's quite possible with a little practice; I've been able to do it several times in real-time (losing the same amount of hearts), and if you grab the heart container in the sanctuary then even if you completely mess up the timing you can still hit the switch and get away alive.
Truncated wrote:
The antlion can be killed with one arrow or one spinattack. Switching to arrows is slow, but did you try to spinattack it?
Well, I tried this, and... http://www.filespace.org/nitsuja/loz-spinkill.smv it's 1 whole frame faster! But, I didn't try very hard at all to optimize it, so I probably don't start charging or start swinging at the optimal times/places, although for some reason it still looks faster. If it can't be improved a decent amount more than that it's probably not worth it though, since who knows what would've been necessary to wait for luck manipulation purposes anyway.
Joined: 3/2/2005
Posts: 18
Sorry, I missed this post, this would probably not be advisable in a console run because of how much health you lose and how exact the timing has to be. The only reason why I discovered it is because I was messing around with frame advance.
Oh don't you worry, it is very possible on a console run :p. It means you take 3 hearts damage, rather than 2, but with the extra heart from sanctuary it's not too hard to do. Plus, it's only 10 minutes into the run, so messing it up and restarting isn't wasting much time. I manage it most of the times I try it, only messed up once since I got the hang of it.
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Another thing: in the big chest room, is it really faster to run up the stairs than to walk?
Player (36)
Joined: 9/11/2004
Posts: 2623
Yes, 2 frames.
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Player (36)
Joined: 9/11/2004
Posts: 2623
nitsuja wrote:
Well, I tried this, and... http://www.filespace.org/nitsuja/loz-spinkill.smv it's 1 whole frame faster! But, I didn't try very hard at all to optimize it, so I probably don't start charging or start swinging at the optimal times/places, although for some reason it still looks faster. If it can't be improved a decent amount more than that it's probably not worth it though, since who knows what would've been necessary to wait for luck manipulation purposes anyway.
I remember, I didn't test that because of the extra swing (to start the charge). I just discounted it. It's faster? Odd. I'll give it some work.
Madzombie wrote:
Oh don't you worry, it is very possible on a console run :p. It means you take 3 hearts damage, rather than 2, but with the extra heart from sanctuary it's not too hard to do. Plus, it's only 10 minutes into the run, so messing it up and restarting isn't wasting much time. I manage it most of the times I try it, only messed up once since I got the hang of it.
nitsuja wrote:
Maybe it's not good advice for a normal playthrough, but for someone speedrunning the game I think it's quite possible with a little practice; I've been able to do it several times in real-time (losing the same amount of hearts), and if you grab the heart container in the sanctuary then even if you completely mess up the timing you can still hit the switch and get away alive.
I've been owned. I guess I just suck at playing Zelda. ^_^
Build a man a fire, warm him for a day, Set a man on fire, warm him for the rest of his life.
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Okay, so check up on the antlion again, but if it's 1-2 frames or something, never mind. And the lighting of the beacons, or whatever they're called. Unless someone has more suggestions after that, I'd suggest continuing to the next dungeon.
TSA
Joined: 4/21/2004
Posts: 186
Heh, back in the day I actually routinely did the "lift the pot/step on switch" in East Palace without killing the foes... Heh...I need to do that...I seriously forgot all about that.
Joined: 3/2/2005
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And yet another 15 seconds gets knocked off the time. There's so many changes to the route now that I've lost track of how much time can be saved. Either way, it's a lot!
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OmnipotentEntity wrote:
I don't know if you can rapid fire arrows on this boss, but I'm pretty sure that the invincibility time is absolute. If I could somehow come up with a way to make them always come directly towards me, I might concievably kill them all in 2 sets. But so far, I haven't been able to sucessfully land two arrows on a single worm without sacrificing more hits than it's worth on another worm. I actually dread doing this boss again, because it's so difficult to do correctly. But if I can save even 30 frames, I'll be more than willing to do the second half of the dungeon over again.
Then you should definitely do at least the sandworm battle again. I just had some time to give it a shot, and it is actually quite possible to double-arrow each one every time. The time I got was 581 frames faster, and could probably be further improved a bit. See: http://nvdata.pilif.ch/loz-sandworms.smv (Everything before the frame it starts at is identical to in your movie.) The sword swing turned out to be unnecessary, but it would've sped up the battle by 1 arrow shot if I could've gotten a second swing in (which I think is possible using the wall somehow - edit: nevermind about the wall, but I'm pretty sure it's possible to hit that one twice after 2 arrows by using 2 really fast swings in a row at a better angle). Also, maybe it's worth mentioning that the worms have a much shorter invincibility time than they appear to, apparently just as short as all other regular enemies (the continued glowing is purely visual - the weird groaning sound is the most reliable cue for if the hit counts).
Player (36)
Joined: 9/11/2004
Posts: 2623
Back to the grind stone then. =D (Thanks so much)
Build a man a fire, warm him for a day, Set a man on fire, warm him for the rest of his life.
Joined: 3/2/2005
Posts: 18
How goes progress on your video? I'd imagine Death Mountain/Tower of Hera wouldn't be too hard.
Player (36)
Joined: 9/11/2004
Posts: 2623
I'm still redoing Dungeon 2. I managed to save 18 frames in the first half. But I lost 7 in one room of the second half. I'm trying to manipulate the enemies in that room to behave nicely and let me run into them. Also, doing the lamp lighting in Truncated's manner is exactly the same speed as doing it in mine. But I prefer Truncated's. And if I can get the Eyegore to behave I might be able to save a frame. I haven't worked on it since Monday, and I usually can only work on it on Sundays or Mondays. I plan to finish up Dungeon 2 then. And then if I have time do the overworld leading up to the Tower of Hera. Sorry for the complete and utter lack of progress.
Build a man a fire, warm him for a day, Set a man on fire, warm him for the rest of his life.
Joined: 3/2/2005
Posts: 18
In case you're interested I have a new run up on SDA. Hopefully you'll find something useful for your emulator in it, but you maybe know it all already. My video is at: http://speeddemosarchive.com/lttp.html
Joined: 11/22/2004
Posts: 1468
Location: Rotterdam, The Netherlands
Madzombie wrote:
In case you're interested I have a new run up on SDA. Hopefully you'll find something useful for your emulator in it, but you maybe know it all already. My video is at: http://speeddemosarchive.com/lttp.html
Wow, nice. :) I hadn't watched a Z: LttP speedrun yet, but I'll definitely get this one! EDIT: Also, heh, it's a new thing that you're thanking guys from the tool-assisted community, considering the fact CERTAIN speedrunners totally despise us. ;)
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Nice speedrun. I suppose now TSA is working on outdoing it? (I'm now sure that this time attack should easily be less than 90 minutes, considering that about 100 minutes time was achieved even with human error, bad luck, and without using restart sequences or glitches. By the way Omni, the overworld path to get the book of Mudora is 1.5 seconds faster than yours...)
Player (36)
Joined: 9/11/2004
Posts: 2623
Update, finally: http://www.nerdparadise.com/crap/LoZLttP-Omni-WIP.smv 15 seconds faster. (16:20) I made a few changes to the 2nd half of the dungeons, now Truncated's route is around 3 frames quicker. I also spanked the sandworms. The random sword swipe in the battle would be randomness manipulation. I'm moving on. You can post improvements if you see them, but I'll let whoever wants to do this game next take care of those. And I'll have to watch it later, but sounds like I'll have a faceplant moment.
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WOW. I didnt expect the sandworm battle to go that fast. Great job, can't wait for the rest.
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Yeah, wow, all sandworms dead in less than 5 seconds, with regular arrows. I wonder what other enemies that tactic works that well on... you'll probably need to manipulate a bunch of arrow drops at some point, since you're down to only 5 now.
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Those worms got pretty damn owned indeed. :P
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nitsuja wrote:
Yeah, wow, all sandworms dead in less than 5 seconds, with regular arrows. I wonder what other enemies that tactic works that well on... you'll probably need to manipulate a bunch of arrow drops at some point, since you're down to only 5 now.
Yeah, I really thought that nintsujas sandworms battle was already the fastest one, but this sandworms battle is just astounding ... Well, you won't need arrows until the dark world - as far as I remember, but I remembered another thing: I think you could also use the bow in the Tower of Hera against Moldorm, but I don't remember if it really was the case or just a humble attempt, because we never got it to work on the console ... It might be worth trying out ... (But before you collect alls the arrows, please try out with moldorm - as I said I'm not sure about that one ...) cu Fabian
TSA
Joined: 4/21/2004
Posts: 186
How plausible is this Lanmolas strategy for a human run...
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Dunno, but I have a feeling if anyone can answer us that TSA, its you :P
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Posts: 462
I think Madzombie's Armos strategy went a bit faster than yours (he pinned them against the top wall and I think yours pushes them to the left too much). That lanmolas battle was amazing though! I cant remember if it was 12 arrows or 9 but it just shows you how great point blank arrows are.
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