Topic by Tompa

Posted: 9/24/2008 5:53 PM

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Tompa

Any

Editor, Expert player (2141)

Joined: 8/15/2005
Posts: 1934
Location: Mullsjö, Sweden

Last time we discussed that, we decided to not include the bomb and arrow upgrades in a 100% run. Just because it will take a very long time to collect, they aren't needed at all and are very boring to collect. I calculated before that you would need a totalt of 2120 rupees for everything in the game, and I might have done some wrong calculations as well.

Posted: 9/24/2008 7:05 PM

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Ferret_Warlord

Skilled player (1404)

Joined: 10/27/2004
Posts: 1976
Location: Making an escape

I remember one time, before I even made it to the sanctuary, I ended up with 999 rupees. The rats were *really* generous that time.

A hundred years from now, they will gaze upon my work and marvel at my skills but never know my name. And that will be good enough for me.

Posted: 9/24/2008 10:00 PM

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Derakon

Joined: 7/2/2007
Posts: 3960

Are there even 50 rats before you get to Sanctuary? Because they don't drop more than 20 rupees apiece, and I don't remember any rupee chests that don't require special gear to get. Even if the rest of the creatures gave you 100, that'd be 40 rats to get perfect drops from...

Pyrel - an open-source rewrite of the Angband roguelike game in Python.

Posted: 9/25/2008 3:18 AM

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franpa

Joined: 2/25/2006
Posts: 407

and I don't remember any rupee chests that don't require special gear to get.

There are 2 IIRC, it is just the lack of bombs that stop you getting them ;)

Ryzen 3700X, ASUS Crosshair VIII Hero (WiFi) Motherboard, 32GB 3600MHz RAM, MSI Geforce 1070Ti 8GB, Windows 10 Pro x64 http://tasvideos.org/Nach/FranpaAlert.html

Posted: 9/25/2008 3:41 PM

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Derakon

Joined: 7/2/2007
Posts: 3960

Bombs count as special gear. You can't get them until you get to the overworld.

Pyrel - an open-source rewrite of the Angband roguelike game in Python.

Posted: 9/26/2008 1:49 PM
(Edited: 9/26/2008 1:54 PM)

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flagitious

Player (200)

Joined: 7/6/2004
Posts: 511

Derakon wrote:

Bombs count as special gear. You can't get them until you get to the overworld.

Bombs do not count as special gear, just none of the monsters before sanctuary have bombs in their drop sequence. Hmm maybe I am wrong though, I can't remember purple guards drop sequence, although it is listed farther back in this thread somewhere. Edit: nm sequence is here http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8622&highlight=#8622 Tompa I have not checked out the WIP yet, but it sounds like you are doing a good job. I'll try to be helpful, but it has been so long since I played and my knowledge of the game is so out of date that it won't be much, not that you need it. Is erokky see around? He had made some good progress, possibly more than he shared in WIPs, which could be of useful reference/comparison/tricks.

g,o,p,i=1e4,a[10001];main(x){for(;p?g=g/x*p+a[p]*i+2*!o: 53^(printf("%.4d",o+g/i),p=i,o=g%i);a[p--]=g%x)x=p*2-1;}

Posted: 9/26/2008 1:54 PM

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erokky

Former player

Joined: 4/6/2006
Posts: 462

I never progressed any further after the second dungeon. I'm not interested in ALTTP anymore but my enthusiasm of a new TAS of it still lingers. I've been helping Tompa with what I can on #nesvideos. It's also good to see you again flagitious. I'm very grateful for your help on the FF6 and ALTTP runs I worked on.

Posted: 9/26/2008 3:52 PM

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Derakon

Joined: 7/2/2007
Posts: 3960

What I meant by "bombs count as special gear" is that you can't get bombs before getting to Sanctuary. I'm fully cognizant of the fact that bombs drop naturally from many enemies and you don't need bomb bags or anything like that in this game. I'm just saying that a bombable wall is effectively a normal wall until you've reached Sanctuary.

Pyrel - an open-source rewrite of the Angband roguelike game in Python.

Posted: 10/6/2008 4:11 AM

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dezbeast

Former player

Joined: 3/10/2006
Posts: 347
Location: Maryland, United States

I regret ever abandoning TASing, but now I'm back. There was no harm done, erokky. I quit ALttP more due to the lack of interest everyone seemed to show. Tompa, that is one awesome WIP. However, I noticed in the sewers that you had to walk down and around a snake. Did you see the WIP that Omni posted before flag discovered the wobble trick? IIrc, there weren't any snakes in his way. Also, further back in the castle where you kill the first knight, i think it's 2 frames faster to charge to the left.

Posted: 10/6/2008 10:20 AM

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Tompa

Any

Editor, Expert player (2141)

Joined: 8/15/2005
Posts: 1934
Location: Mullsjö, Sweden

Thanks for some feeback, Dez. I believe I know which snake you mean, and I tried to get them all to not be in the way, but I wasn't able to do it. And I presume I've never seen that WIP before.. Is it somewhere in the topic? Is the guard boosted further to the door if you charge to the left? I guess I should have tried that as well :/. I could possibly redo the castle - Sewers part and hex it in later if I manage to save time in there. Right now I'm in the room before the first boss, but I'm having some problems... http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/956512620/ALttPAny%25Improvement%20-%20Kopia.smv The second cyclop, the one to the left, is supposed to walk down after I shot it. So the arrow will hit it earlier and I'll be able to pick up the 5 arrows it will drop. It did this in Erokky's version, but for some reason I can't get him to move the same for me. I've tried to enter the room later, used a lot of different positions, slashes the sword before shooting the arrows etc. Nothing works... If you are able to help me with this, I would be a happy man. Meanwhile I'll just continue with my DKC TAS instead, I just can't stand that room anymore.

Posted: 10/6/2008 12:12 PM

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dezbeast

Former player

Joined: 3/10/2006
Posts: 347
Location: Maryland, United States

This is where Omni posted his WIP. http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=227&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=420 The main thing I remember about the room with the guard is I didn't have to pause at all to grab the key. Can't remember if the guard was hit closer to the door though. I wouldn't worry about fixing those errors since you're that far in the game. Even if you do fix them, you only save about 5 frames. About that room before the boss, if I'm not mistaken, you have to delay frames before triggering the cyclops to open up its eyes. Then it'll start moving down sooner so you don't have to go out of the way to grab the arrows. Unless erokky figured out a different way to manipulate this without me knowing about, he was just fortunate to be at the right frame where the cyclops would move down at the desired spot. Overall your WIP really surprised me, with a few extra glitches I never knew about. I beg you to continue this run. You already teased me with this small masterpiece. I know I abandoned OoS. But I can resume it if you'd like. Just please don't abandon this run.

Posted: 10/6/2008 12:26 PM

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Tompa

Any

Editor, Expert player (2141)

Joined: 8/15/2005
Posts: 1934
Location: Mullsjö, Sweden

I won't stop doing this run, not if I have a good reason for it. I'm just taking a break for a few days. I'm trying to get Arne's motivation back as well. I've tried to delay, and it works at least but loses way too much time... I just can't come up with any other solutions. Will watch the WIP later. Edit: Can't access the smv anyway...

Posted: 10/6/2008 2:13 PM

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dezbeast

Former player

Joined: 3/10/2006
Posts: 347
Location: Maryland, United States

I just downloaded it again. You have to right click and choose 'save target as'. Now that I've seen it again, I don't think you'll be able to get the same set up he had. It was most likely a fluke. He just missed getting hit by a snake that happened to move out of the way before he could pass the wall. How many frames did you delay before the cyclops moved down at the right spot?

Posted: 10/6/2008 2:32 PM

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Tompa

Any

Editor, Expert player (2141)

Joined: 8/15/2005
Posts: 1934
Location: Mullsjö, Sweden

When I made him go down I was just upset because of the room so I held fast forward for a long time and when I tried, he went down. But I've delayed them to open their eyes for 9 frames, but he is still walking down at the same frame, no matter what. I haven't tried to delay the entrance to the room by more than 2 frames however.

Posted: 10/6/2008 3:33 PM

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dezbeast

Former player

Joined: 3/10/2006
Posts: 347
Location: Maryland, United States

If you notice, although the cyclops starts moving down at the same frame, as you delay frames, it starts moving down closer and closer to the desired spot. In this situation you just happened to get bad randomness that I don't think you can avoid. If I were you I would sacrifice the few frames and not worry about it.

Posted: 10/6/2008 3:43 PM

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Tompa

Any

Editor, Expert player (2141)

Joined: 8/15/2005
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Location: Mullsjö, Sweden

"The few frames" I don't even know how many I have to sacrifice... Has to be at least 10, which is way too much.

Posted: 10/6/2008 3:50 PM

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dezbeast

Former player

Joined: 3/10/2006
Posts: 347
Location: Maryland, United States

I don't think there's any way around it. Of course in this particular case it might be faster to do what flag did in the published run but do it more precisely. I don't know for sure though.

Posted: 10/6/2008 5:19 PM

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Tompa

Any

Editor, Expert player (2141)

Joined: 8/15/2005
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Location: Mullsjö, Sweden

Took me 13 shitty frames until it was nice for me... Only solution, as I see it, is to improve the previous room with another frame and I might, but most likely not, get better manipulation. I've tried that room a lot and I haven't managed to do it... Even though the manipulation there isn't perfect either, stupid skeletons. I guess I'll continue with the boss anyway.

Posted: 10/6/2008 7:40 PM

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dezbeast

Former player

Joined: 3/10/2006
Posts: 347
Location: Maryland, United States

Hmm, I didn't think it would be that many. I was messing around with your WIP and I thought only 8 or 9 frames was needed. What you should do is test to see how many more frames it takes for the cyclops to walk the desired path again. If it's 13 you know you only need to save a frame before that part. If it's 14 you need to save 2 frames.

Posted: 10/6/2008 7:42 PM

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Tompa

Any

Editor, Expert player (2141)

Joined: 8/15/2005
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Location: Mullsjö, Sweden

So I only need to save one frame then... *SIGH* Let's see what I can do :/.

Posted: 10/6/2008 9:57 PM

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dezbeast

Former player

Joined: 3/10/2006
Posts: 347
Location: Maryland, United States

Wow, so it turned out to be 13 after all? What are the odds of that? This would require you to manipulate some rooms over again but I'm pretty sure that it's a couple frames faster to not grab the key under the pot with the boomerang. I wouldn't go that far back though because there's a chance the setups later won't be as good, leaving you where you started.

Posted: 10/7/2008 4:23 PM

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Tompa

Any

Editor, Expert player (2141)

Joined: 8/15/2005
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Location: Mullsjö, Sweden

When I tried that room I forgot to walk down before I could grab the key... So I didn't think it would be faster, but it saved 3 frames apparently. I'm going to redo from there and in case I end up losing everything, I have backups ready. Edit: Hmm, but because of the 4 frames damage rule, I'm not sure that I'll actually save something here... Stupid game

Posted: 10/7/2008 5:14 PM

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