Topic by dave_dfwm

Posted: 10/23/2008 7:12 PM

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dave_dfwm

Active player (250)

Joined: 7/30/2006
Posts: 207
Location: Alefgard, USA

That works -- thanks a lot.

Posted: 10/26/2008 12:21 PM

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Tompa

Any

Editor, Expert player (2142)

Joined: 8/15/2005
Posts: 1934
Location: Mullsjö, Sweden

To dungeon 3 When I'm leaving the cave with the old man I slash my sword, this may look odd but it allows me to do a pixelport in the exit. I can't change direction there so I had to charge the sword. 3 frames faster that way.

Posted: 10/27/2008 10:58 PM

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dave_dfwm

Active player (250)

Joined: 7/30/2006
Posts: 207
Location: Alefgard, USA

Just wanted to pop in and say that your WIP up to the last light world dungeon looks good. Are you going to use the same route as the previous movie? (sorry if this has been discussed already)...

Posted: 10/27/2008 11:06 PM

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Tompa

Any

Editor, Expert player (2142)

Joined: 8/15/2005
Posts: 1934
Location: Mullsjö, Sweden

There are going to be some route changes. I'm going to collect the rupees a different way than he did. But the Dark World dungeon order will probably be the same.

Posted: 11/1/2008 2:16 PM

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flagitious

Player (200)

Joined: 7/6/2004
Posts: 511

Hey how is the 3rd pendant going?

g,o,p,i=1e4,a[10001];main(x){for(;p?g=g/x*p+a[p]*i+2*!o: 53^(printf("%.4d",o+g/i),p=i,o=g%i);a[p--]=g%x)x=p*2-1;}

Posted: 11/1/2008 8:19 PM

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Tompa

Any

Editor, Expert player (2142)

Joined: 8/15/2005
Posts: 1934
Location: Mullsjö, Sweden

flagitious wrote:

Hey how is the 3rd pendant going?

Pretty good Picking up the master sword was stupid... I could pick it up 4 frames earlier, but it resultet to be slower in the end for some reason. Tried a lot of different frames but this one was the fastest. Annoying shit going on there... Anyway, I'm 2756 frames ahead (46 seconds) after the Master Sword. If someone can encode an avi from around frame 37000 to the end, I would be a happy little Tompa!

Posted: 11/1/2008 11:57 PM

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ShinyDoofy

Former player

Joined: 12/5/2007
Posts: 716

Tompa wrote:

If someone can encode an avi from around frame 37000 to the end, I would be a happy little Tompa!

http://files.filefront.com/2avi/;12224326;/fileinfo.html

Posted: 11/2/2008 3:07 PM

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flagitious

Player (200)

Joined: 7/6/2004
Posts: 511

Nice nice. Visually the picking up of the sword didn't look bad, I couldn't see any delay when watching it at regular speed at least.

g,o,p,i=1e4,a[10001];main(x){for(;p?g=g/x*p+a[p]*i+2*!o: 53^(printf("%.4d",o+g/i),p=i,o=g%i);a[p--]=g%x)x=p*2-1;}

Posted: 11/2/2008 4:13 PM

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Tompa

Any

Editor, Expert player (2142)

Joined: 8/15/2005
Posts: 1934
Location: Mullsjö, Sweden

It's possible to see that I'm bumping into the wall before, but not that easy to spot I guess. I planned out my arrow route before. If I've calculated everything, it will mean that I don't have to sacrifice any frames to pick up arrows anymore. And I'll end up having 0 arrows after Ganon. Now the problem is the bombs. You got 8 bombs from the pig in The Palace of Darkness, but as I'm going to use a different route there I won't get those bombs. I'll see what I can come up with :/ Anyway, I uploaded Shiny's avi to Youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ikmLO4Qgxc

Posted: 11/2/2008 5:36 PM

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Derakon

Joined: 7/2/2007
Posts: 3960

Can you not use the L/R walking when escorting the old man? Lame. Looks good, though!

Pyrel - an open-source rewrite of the Angband roguelike game in Python.

Posted: 11/2/2008 5:37 PM

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Tompa

Any

Editor, Expert player (2142)

Joined: 8/15/2005
Posts: 1934
Location: Mullsjö, Sweden

I can... But I'm "only" going right and down, and I can't do any wobbling those directions.

Posted: 11/4/2008 1:17 PM

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dezbeast

Former player

Joined: 3/10/2006
Posts: 347
Location: Maryland, United States

Looks great so far. I'm eager to see how you handle the castle. That's always been one of my favorite part's to watch in Flag's run. Did you happen to figure out where you're going to get the rest of the rupees. I'm assuming you tried getting one in the Moon Pearl room and it wasted too much time.

Posted: 11/4/2008 1:25 PM

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Tompa

Any

Editor, Expert player (2142)

Joined: 8/15/2005
Posts: 1934
Location: Mullsjö, Sweden

Yeah, I was trying to kill one of the moldorms where i lift the pots. But, even having the moldorm go up in front of me, it took way too much time to wait until I could grab it. I got one rupee outside the house and was planning to get the rest 11 in the castle. Or possibly get one green rupee in the grass at the Pyramid. But I don't know how items are manipulated in grass, so I'm unsure about that. The bombs are worrying me now however...

Posted: 11/6/2008 11:20 AM

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Tompa

Any

Editor, Expert player (2142)

Joined: 8/15/2005
Posts: 1934
Location: Mullsjö, Sweden

Alright... I need some opinions here. When you are walking down/up stairs that will lead you to different floors (B1, 1F, 2F etc) while holding Left+Right+Up the amination will enter EG (The glitch that's used in the glitched run where you can walk through walls and such). And once you reach the next floor you will be invisible until you leave the room. However, I later noticed that the position of Link wasn't the same as it usually is. Link is both lower down on the screen and some more to the left or right. It's not the same with all stairs. In this movie, when I'm walking down the stairs normally, Link will be standing at position: x 249 and y 821 When holding up+left+right: x 236 and y 83 When going up the stairs normally: x 248 and y 100 When holding up+left+right: x 248 and y 125. 25 pixels lower down. I can still start moving around at the same frame in both cases http://65.93.197.203/microstorage.php/info/167354858/StairsGlitch.smv x position 7E0022, 1u y position 7E0020, 1u I want to know if I shall: 1. Restart the run and include this trick. 2. Start using it from now on and continue. 3. Don't care about it at all. I hope my bad explanation was somewhat understandable...

Posted: 11/6/2008 12:23 PM

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dezbeast

Former player

Joined: 3/10/2006
Posts: 347
Location: Maryland, United States

Since you're already this far into the run, I wouldn't restart. This leaves the option of using this trick from now on or not. I'm leaning towards not using it at all. Doing this will keep your run looking consistent. Also it wouldn't be as entertaining watching the parts where Link is invisible.

Posted: 11/6/2008 3:21 PM

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Derakon

Joined: 7/2/2007
Posts: 3960

I agree with Dezbeast. Above all else, a run should be consistent; glaring new glitches should either be used regularly or not at all. But it doesn't sound worthwhile, entertainment-wise, to trade a second or so of walking for Link being invisible.

Pyrel - an open-source rewrite of the Angband roguelike game in Python.

Posted: 11/6/2008 7:57 PM

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AngerFist

Active player (432)

Joined: 4/21/2004
Posts: 3517
Location: Stockholm, Sweden

In my opinion, if this glitch is the same used in the glitched 5 minute run, then I clearly think you should not use it. There is a reason why you havent used it so far, and thats because your run is quite different from the glitched run, by simply not using that glitch. I don't know, but it's quite simple to me. It's basically the same thing with other runs who have glitched runs, like Super Metroid, Zelda 2 (NES) etc. Imagine the Zelda 2 run using the left+right glitch in the normal run, can you imagine how much faster it would be? This is the same situation. You arent doing anything wrong at all by not using the glitch. If you use it, then your run suffers from inconsistent restriction/goal.

Nitrogenesis wrote:

Guys I come from the DidyKnogRacist communite, and you are all wrong, tihs is the run of the mileniun and everyone who says otherwise dosnt know any bater! I found this run vary ease to masturbate too!!!! Don't fuck with me, I know this game so that mean I'm always right!StupedfackincommunityTASVideoz!!!!!!

Arc wrote:

I enjoyed this movie in which hands firmly gripping a shaft lead to balls deep in multiple holes.

natt wrote:

I don't want to get involved in this discussion, but as a point of fact C# is literally the first goddamn thing on that fucking page you linked did you even fucking read it

Cooljay wrote:

Mayor Haggar and Cody are such nice people for the community. Metro City's hospitals reached an all time new record of incoming patients due to their great efforts :P

Posted: 11/6/2008 8:51 PM

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ElectroSpecter

Player (244)

Joined: 8/6/2006
Posts: 784
Location: Connecticut, USA

AngerFist wrote:

In my opinion, if this glitch is the same used in the glitched 5 minute run, then I clearly think you should not use it. There is a reason why you havent used it so far, and thats because your run is quite different from the glitched run, by simply not using that glitch. I don't know, but it's quite simple to me. It's basically the same thing with other runs who have glitched runs, like Super Metroid, Zelda 2 (NES) etc. Imagine the Zelda 2 run using the left+right glitch in the normal run, can you imagine how much faster it would be? This is the same situation. You arent doing anything wrong at all by not using the glitch. If you use it, then your run suffers from inconsistent restriction/goal.

That.

My Backloggery

Posted: 11/7/2008 7:14 AM

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DaTeL237

Active player (353)

Joined: 1/16/2008
Posts: 358
Location: The Netherlands

I had started typing in the reply box 3 times before and couldn't get to the right words.... but AngerFist nailed it perfectly so imo an obvious (3) opinion

TASes: [URL=http://tasvideos.org/Movies-298up-Obs.html]Mr. Nutz (SNES), Young Merlin 100% (SNES), Animaniacs 100% (SNES)[/URL]

Posted: 11/7/2008 12:48 PM

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flagitious

Player (200)

Joined: 7/6/2004
Posts: 511

I concur with AngerFist. But also I think that you should probably not restart regardless of what the trick is, the game is just too long. Even if you restart, you might then get say 2/3 through the game and discover something else, now you would face the same dilemma except you would feel even more obligated to restart since you did before. You would be better served completing the game, discovering as much as you can, and then if you feel like the total savings is worth it doing it again. That might sound like alot of work, but really it is less than restarting every time a new trick is discovered, plus this way you have a completed run to show for your effort earlier. This point is moot for now since you seem to have found all non bad glitch tricks at first usage, but it is such a long game it is bound to happen, props of course if it doesn't :) Non exploration glitch run, is not well defined. When I made the first TAS I thought it was, but soon after watching TASes of other games I realized it is kind of arbitrary and not well defined. You have now made it even more undefined. Still though, I can't think of well defined rule that would keep the game familiar to viewers, so I guess it will just require your best judgement.

g,o,p,i=1e4,a[10001];main(x){for(;p?g=g/x*p+a[p]*i+2*!o: 53^(printf("%.4d",o+g/i),p=i,o=g%i);a[p--]=g%x)x=p*2-1;}

Posted: 11/7/2008 1:05 PM

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moozooh

Senior Moderator

Joined: 8/4/2005
Posts: 5770
Location: Away

I think it's relatively simple. Say there is a certain glitch that can be used to save time. It means you should use it everywhere it saves time. If it results in beating the game dramatically faster than normal (as it is with EG), don't include it in the non-glitched category whatsoever. Every glitch should either be used to full extent, or not at all.

Warp wrote:

Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.

Posted: 11/8/2008 6:24 AM

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Twelvepack

Joined: 5/2/2006
Posts: 1020
Location: Boulder, CO

It is different then the one that it sued in the glitch run because it uses different kinds of staircases, but the smart money would be on finishing without it, and listing it as a possible improvement.

Has never colored a dinosaur.

Posted: 11/8/2008 6:46 AM

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Derakon

Joined: 7/2/2007
Posts: 3960

Moozooh: I don't agree. To pick an extreme example, say there was a glitch that allowed you to get a 1-pixel-per-second faster walking speed, but completely broke the graphics of the game. You'd be slightly faster by using it, yes, but the TAS would be unwatchable. In short, the TASer has to balance the speed gains vs. any potential loss in entertainment. Sometimes glitches make things more entertaining, sometimes they make things less, sometimes it depends on the viewer. Personally I wouldn't want to watch a Zelda TAS where Link is invisible for any significant part of the game. You might feel differently. It's up to Tompa to decide, of course.

Pyrel - an open-source rewrite of the Angband roguelike game in Python.

Posted: 11/8/2008 7:09 AM

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