Topic by RachelB

Posted: 4/27/2012 9:41 PM

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RachelB

She/Her

Player (127)

Joined: 12/3/2011
Posts: 1579

funnyhair wrote:

Kyman: If this is a hundred percent run, your forgot the honeycomb underwater in spiral mountain. If this is not, please disregard this statement.

The title says any%.

Posted: 4/27/2012 9:42 PM

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funnyhair

Player (116)

Joined: 5/13/2009
Posts: 700
Location: suffern, ny

Ah, maybe i should have read that! Good Luck Kyman!

[19:16] <scrimpy> silly portuguese [19:16] <scrimpy> it's like spanish, only less cool

Posted: 4/27/2012 9:58 PM

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Nahoc

Editor, Experienced player (852)

Joined: 8/12/2008
Posts: 845
Location: Québec, Canada

This is just a testrun to see what form of movement is the fastest. Kyman, sonicpacker and myself won't work on an any% because it'd be too similar to the currently published TAS by Sami. RubixClan is working on a script to make Banjo travel in a perfectly straight line from point A to B. Meanwhile, we are routing Spiral Mountain and testing some Bottles skips.

Posted: 4/28/2012 1:01 AM

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GMan

Joined: 4/7/2008
Posts: 117

So a bit more digging, there are four values (all floats) related to facing:

Current Facing: 00C68110
Goal Facing: 00C68114
Last Frame's Current Facing: 00C67B78
Last Frame's Goal Facing: 00C67F74

You can edit the first two to directly manipulate Banjo. Also while we're here, position (all floats):

X Position: 00C68020
Y Position: 00C68024
Z Position: 00C68028

I'll try searching for some sort of status variable (in water, swap boots, etc.).

Posted: 4/28/2012 1:17 AM

Post subject: :(

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Kyman

Editor, Active player (429)

Joined: 9/29/2008
Posts: 706
Location: Canada

Does anyone happen to know how to do the first back flip in Spiral Mountain? I can't seem to do it.

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Posted: 4/28/2012 4:16 AM

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Comicalflop

Editor, Experienced player (730)

Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA

The shortcut one to get to the crops for the first honeycomb? I've done it in real time, it's not really that difficult to do. Also, I was under the impression that the camera in this game worked out so that without hitting any C buttons, holding one direction made you move in that direction without the camera moving and without you straying from the path. Is that incorrect?

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Posted: 5/4/2012 1:05 AM

Post subject: Re: :(

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JSmith

Joined: 8/1/2006
Posts: 428

Kyman wrote:

Does anyone happen to know how to do the first back flip in Spiral Mountain? I can't seem to do it.

It's much harder to do in Mupen than on console or another emulator, presumably due to a subtle emulation glitch.

Trying 127.0.0.1... telnet: connect to address 127.0.0.1: Connection refused telnet: Unable to connect to remote host

Posted: 5/4/2012 4:04 AM

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bkDJ

Joined: 7/26/2006
Posts: 1215

Comicalflop wrote:

I was under the impression that the camera in this game worked out so that without hitting any C buttons, holding one direction made you move in that direction without the camera moving and without you straying from the path. Is that incorrect?

Apart from a few exceptions, mostly cramped spaces (e.g. in mumbo's hut, walrus cave in FP) or around special areas (e.g. the ape in MM, the spiral mountain itself in SM), you are correct: the camera locks at 8 angles and movement angle is relative to camera angle. If you're questioning the use of a script to go in a straight line, those special areas and attempts to keep camera angles good elsewhere (if framerate doesn't take a hit, I'd rather not just stare at a scrolling wall for the sake of 100% perfect movement) while going from A to B would make it worth it.

Posted: 5/7/2012 9:46 PM

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bkDJ

Joined: 7/26/2006
Posts: 1215

Yeah, double-post but it's been a few days and this has nothing to do with the last one. Kyman, I found one of my old m64s and did a quick comparison:

So your movement is waaay more optimized than my crappy attempt ( from -18 to +22 means you did Spiral Mountain 30 frames faster), but you didn't start as quickly as possible. :/

Posted: 5/8/2012 8:17 PM

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Kyman

Editor, Active player (429)

Joined: 9/29/2008
Posts: 706
Location: Canada

I was 18 frames behind in that m64, after I realized it was on the file selection screen. I know some of mine is improvable though.

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Posted: 5/9/2012 8:07 PM

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BrainStormer

Joined: 6/12/2008
Posts: 84

Kyman, just to let you know what I think ahead of time. If you are to make an 100% run of this game, I think you can make a significant improvement over sami's run from consistent sheer optimization throughout the run. However, even if you do cut a good amount of time compared to the final time now, I still don't think it's going to make a big difference overall for the run. I would still enjoy watching sami's run now. However, the run will no doubt look a lot better, cleaner, more watchable, friendly, etc... You have got me very excited though if you are really determined to make a run of this game as if you do, I think it might be it's very last one because it's a game that doesn't look like you can get any major improvements from glitch-breaking for example as the way it was coded seems tight. I also hope you will prove me wrong, sending sami's run to dust from all the possible craziness you think is fair game. I am looking forward to what the future may bring :P

Posted: 7/19/2012 11:17 PM

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sonicpacker

Active player (420)

Joined: 9/21/2009
Posts: 1047
Location: California

This is pleasing to see: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2V3QrGyCJE

https://personalitygrowth.com/entp-myths-stereotypes-misconceptions-cliches-and-tropes-that-are-inaccurate/

Posted: 7/20/2012 1:44 AM

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Red

Joined: 7/17/2011
Posts: 10

I don't know if you peeps have seen this, so just in case: http://forum.speeddemosarchive.com/post/banjokazooie_get_jiggy_animation_skip.html

Posted: 7/24/2012 6:05 AM

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Vykan12

Player (98)

Joined: 3/20/2008
Posts: 466
Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada

sonicpacker wrote:

This is pleasing to see: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2V3QrGyCJE

That WIP looks awesome :)

Posted: 7/24/2012 1:28 PM

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bkDJ

Joined: 7/26/2006
Posts: 1215

Red wrote:

I don't know if you peeps have seen this, so just in case: http://forum.speeddemosarchive.com/post/banjokazooie_get_jiggy_animation_skip.html

cancelling a celebration animation (or jiggy jig) was known to be possible via 1) "landing in water" or 2) "starting a new jig" (i.e. getting 2 jiggies at once), but now we can add 3) "taking damage" to that list, thanks :)

Posted: 8/27/2012 10:27 AM

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Cronikeys

Joined: 7/12/2011
Posts: 142
Location: Indianapolis

Hi. I've found a lot of stuff that might be helpful for the TAS. Furnace Fun Tile Skip http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bqtZRhHgBd4 It's possible to skip even further than what's shown in the video using the same principal. Ice Clip in Click Clock Woods http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0sFDCrrmN8 This clip might be a faster way of leaving the water in Click Clock Woods (Winter) after Gnawty's house =O Faster(?) Gobi's Valley Grunty Switch Jiggy http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZaVmFq_lgfk This seems faster than doing a ground pound, but I haven't timed it. Boss Boom Box Jiggy Animation Skip http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZygY3AGByh0 This is an easy spot to skip the jiggy animation. It's doable in realtime even (with a bit of luck). Beehive Clip in Click Clock Woods http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLsOyN8abD0 This was shown to me by a Japanese BK speedrunner, but if OOB warping is allowed it might be useful. Object Teleportation http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJODJbpZYq8 I have no idea how this works, but maybe a more experienced TASer can figure it out? Hut Notes in Bubblegloop Swamp as Banjo http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_PzFLbCRMRs This probably isn't faster, but I'm sharing it in case it somehow is. It's possible to get out (check description for link to that video). Faster(?) Bottles Skip in Spiral Mountain http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-z_djaBRDqY I don't know if this is faster or not, but it's a setup I found for realtime speedruns. There are more videos on my YouTube in this playlist: http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL3487DD6B9369E284 Hope I helped :) Let me know if you guys figure anything out about the Object Teleportation thing =O

Current Projects: Banjo-Kazooie, Banjo-Tooie, Donkey Kong 64, Bubsy II, Paper Mario: TTYD, Barbie (NES), Jinx (EU PSX) YouTube | Twitter | Twitch

Posted: 8/27/2012 5:06 PM

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sonicpacker

Active player (420)

Joined: 9/21/2009
Posts: 1047
Location: California

Well, if I could +1 any recent post on TASVideos, this would be it: ^ Thanks for posting all of your finds, Cronikeys!

https://personalitygrowth.com/entp-myths-stereotypes-misconceptions-cliches-and-tropes-that-are-inaccurate/

Posted: 8/27/2012 5:25 PM

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Comicalflop

Editor, Experienced player (730)

Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA

That definitely looks like enough new tricks/glitches to justify a new 100% TAS. Very good finds from what is normally a mostly glitchless/well coded game. To answer your question yes Out of Bounds warping is totally ok, just look at the Majora's Mask TAS.

☣ Homepage ☣ Retired

Posted: 8/27/2012 8:26 PM

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t3h_Icy

Former player

Joined: 8/31/2009
Posts: 236

Amazing stuff!

Posted: 8/28/2012 2:10 AM

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Cronikeys

Joined: 7/12/2011
Posts: 142
Location: Indianapolis

Thanks guys for the feedback :) Here's some new stuff I found today. Delayed Jiggy http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8PDzK7URaBM This lets you skip the jiggy dance and also looks really cool. I don't know where it could be used, but I thought I would let everyone know about it in case someone thinks of something. Frozen Enemy http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RItbL5bmatM This happened to me accidentally, but it's really strange. I don't see how this would be useful in a speedrun unless there is some way to make a non-enemy object do the same thing. Fixed-Position Camera http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Ab3vOkPgkA This gets the camera stuck in "In a tunnel!" mode so that the camera no longer follows Banjo. It might be useful for unloading things like note doors?

Current Projects: Banjo-Kazooie, Banjo-Tooie, Donkey Kong 64, Bubsy II, Paper Mario: TTYD, Barbie (NES), Jinx (EU PSX) YouTube | Twitter | Twitch

Posted: 8/28/2012 2:25 AM

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ais523

Editor, Player (44)

Joined: 7/11/2010
Posts: 1022

Comicalflop wrote:

That definitely looks like enough new tricks/glitches to justify a new 100% TAS. Very good finds from what is normally a mostly glitchless/well coded game. To answer your question yes Out of Bounds warping is totally ok, just look at the Majora's Mask TAS.

In general, you can do anything you like short of cheat codes to make a TAS finish faster (even things like resetting halfway through a save when the game explicitly tells you not to). If it turns out to completely break the entire game and give a really quick completion, that'll leave space for a second run that doesn't, and both will get accepted. In the case of an OoB glitch in CCW to quickly return to the start of the level, that's hardly going to break a huge amount of the game, so it's simply going to be a timesaver that's included with all the others. (Breaking note doors would be potentially major; if you can sequence-break past the 810 note door without entering CCW, that's not only an entire level you get to skip, but also you can save all the Jiggies it'd otherwise cost to unlock it, making any% suddenly seem like an interesting category. Does the game handle Furnace Fun being unlocked before CCW correctly? There's a cheat code programmed into the game to remove the 810 note door, so I guess it does.)

Posted: 8/28/2012 2:42 AM

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ALAKTORN

He/Him

Player (99)

Joined: 10/19/2009
Posts: 2527
Location: Italy

you’re fucking amazing, Cronikeys

Posted: 8/28/2012 6:53 AM

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Synx

Joined: 3/17/2009
Posts: 496

I would just like to inform you that I am enjoying your contributions Cronikeys = )

Posted: 8/28/2012 3:03 PM

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bkDJ

Joined: 7/26/2006
Posts: 1215

Loving the renewed interest in the game. Some good RTA speedrunners are picking it up too. Let's not forget old glitches though. :)

Cronikeys wrote:

Delayed Jiggy http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8PDzK7URaBM This lets you skip the jiggy dance and also looks really cool. I don't know where it could be used, but I thought I would let everyone know about it in case someone thinks of something.

The delay was first discovered in 2006 by Sami (suggested by JSmith), and then I figured out hopping out of the water would collect it for real. (Link1, Link2) Also, JSmith discovered that Z+C (talon trot, wonderwing, egg-firing) animations allowed for deep water entry (wonderwing goes deepest), and I found that those animations turn cutscenes into normal text (Conga, Nipper, etc)

Posted: 8/28/2012 3:11 PM

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ALAKTORN

He/Him

Player (99)

Joined: 10/19/2009
Posts: 2527
Location: Italy

bkDJ wrote:

Let's not forget old glitches though. :)

sounds like someone should create this page http://tasvideos.org/GameResources/N64/BanjoKazooie.html