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How much will "Reverse Bee Adventure" be used in the current run plans?
Joined: 7/12/2011
Posts: 142
Location: Indianapolis
t3h Icy wrote:
How much will "Reverse Bee Adventure" be used in the current run plans?
It will be used to enter Clanker's Cavern, Gobi's Valley, and Rusty Bucket Bay without paying the required jiggies. In these worlds, only notes will be collected.
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Joined: 8/12/2008
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Location: Québec, Canada
Any other unrelated post will be deleted. Please discuss BANJO-KAZOOIE in this thread. Stay civilised. Thank you!~~ I think it might be a good idea to also remind people that transphobia (like racism, homophobia, et cetera) is absolutely unacceptable in any community with reasonable standards. Such behavior won't be tolerated.
Joined: 7/26/2006
Posts: 1215
Cronikeys wrote:
I'm working on a few ideas to skip more jiggies by entering levels early. I had an idea for Bubblegloop Swamp but I found that the "water" in the marsh outside of the level is a different object which you can't swim in. It has depth if you look at it from the side (using L to Levitate cheat codes or MHS to hack yourself oob) whereas normal water does not. The floor of the BGS lobby area is also what damages you and the "water" object is what spawns the little red dot particle effect from the piranhas.
Depth, from the side? Can we see a screenshot of that? Sounds interesting :) And I bet the sand in GV is similar in that the floor beneath the sand damages you and the opaque "water" is just for show.
Player (118)
Joined: 5/13/2009
Posts: 700
Location: suffern, ny
Cronikeys: this too was one of my favorite child hood games. I am glad to see you are making great progress and finding all of the glitches and other things. Please keep up the good work, and don't lets idiots get to you. I'll be watching the progress.
[19:16] <scrimpy> silly portuguese [19:16] <scrimpy> it's like spanish, only less cool
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Joined: 6/30/2010
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Location: Zurich, Switzerland
Cronikeys, I just wanted to thank you. You did so much for the community in this year. Banjo Kazooie was one of the few games from my childhood that was still "intact" and coudn't be broken down to a minimum. But then you came along and destroyed it more and more, but I couldn't be happier. Because I know, that know with all these new glitches, we will see a lot of amazing speedruns and on top of all, an absolutely mindblowing TAS. I'm really hyped for it! Keep up your great work and hopefully you will bring BK down to OoT-Levels of glitchyness^^
Current project: Gex 3 any% Paused: Gex 64 any% There are no N64 emulators. Just SM64 emulators with hacky support for all the other games.
Joined: 7/12/2011
Posts: 142
Location: Indianapolis
Thanks andypanther :)
bkDJ wrote:
Depth, from the side? Can we see a screenshot of that? Sounds interesting :)
Here you can see the depth of the marshy water. It's like this in the level, too. Normal water doesn't have this depth and is only a single "pixel" or whatever high. On the subject of levels early though, if you hack your way OOB it is possible to swim under the map AND enter TTC early: If a way to get out of bounds was found in the TTC lobby area then it's possible that we could skip an additional two jiggies. I have tried and have gotten Kirkq to help test some stuff, but I thought I would post it here. I've tried all obvious things (superfalling on the rubble, the cannons on the side of the ships, walking into seams/corners, etc.).
bkDJ wrote:
And I bet the sand in GV is similar in that the floor beneath the sand damages you and the opaque "water" is just for show.
Yeah, it works in a similar way where the ground is what hurts you. The CCW bramble field works like that, too.
Joined: 9/18/2012
Posts: 48
http://i.imgur.com/t4zOs.jpg?1 It's kind of late to throw this idea out there, but I was wondering if you could clip through mumbo's mountain entrance through this crack in the door (or is it just a graphical "illusion" thingy?). Keep it up with the progress. I'm enjoying all these new glitches and stuff. Glad to see the route planning is mostly complete.
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Posts: 142
Location: Indianapolis
AnotherUser wrote:
http://i.imgur.com/t4zOs.jpg?1 It's kind of late to throw this idea out there, but I was wondering if you could clip through mumbo's mountain entrance through this crack in the door (or is it just a graphical "illusion" thingy?). Keep it up with the progress. I'm enjoying all these new glitches and stuff. Glad to see the route planning is mostly complete.
There are tons (more than 20) doors like this in Banjo-Kazooie. They're also like that in Banjo-Tooie (and why Clockwork eggs are broken). I've tried for many hours on all of them with no luck. Other notable ones: entrance to BGS, 50 note door, 150 note door, etc etc. If there was a way through them, I think it would probably be similar to the Sphinx clip but I'm 99% sure that has something to do with getting hurt. And thank you :)
Joined: 7/12/2011
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Location: Indianapolis
I was wrong -- ignore everything I said about the water in and around BGS. You -can- swim in it if you enter it from out of bounds (still no way to get out of bounds, though).
Player (118)
Joined: 5/13/2009
Posts: 700
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Wow. Holy Crap. Wow. Holy Crap.
[19:16] <scrimpy> silly portuguese [19:16] <scrimpy> it's like spanish, only less cool
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Because of the split, a few useful parts of posts were diverted. I'll post the quotes here.
Hina98 wrote:
On-topic: Cronikeys you're doing some amazing things with these clips! I remember being incredibly impressed by Sami's 100% TAS, but you're blowing it out of the water! Good luck, I can't wait to see some WIP's.
Cronikeys wrote:
Anyway. Regarding Banjo-Kazooie: I'm working on a few ideas to skip more jiggies by entering levels early. I had an idea for Bubblegloop Swamp but I found that the "water" in the marsh outside of the level is a different object which you can't swim in. It has depth if you look at it from the side (using L to Levitate cheat codes or MHS to hack yourself oob) whereas normal water does not. The floor of the BGS lobby area is also what damages you and the "water" object is what spawns the little red dot particle effect from the piranhas.
EEssentia wrote:
Phew. Anyway, Cronikeys, I think it's great that you're finding all these glitches! Keep up the good work and don't let these people get to you! You are as welcome as anyone else. So instead of fighting, let's have fun. Let's enjoy these things we do for fun.
HiipFire wrote:
btw, great job you're doing on breaking this game.
Joined: 7/12/2011
Posts: 142
Location: Indianapolis
I found a way to get out of bounds in the BGS lobby as Banjo using RBA. In this video, you can see what I was talking about regarding the water outside Bubblegloop Swamp: Link to video If a way were found to clip to this lower plane as Banjo, then seven more Jiggies could be skipped. There's also a weird teleport thing when I surface that I need to look into. I think it's related to the "backwards long trot" thing and "Sphinx Clip" I posted a while ago.
Joined: 7/12/2011
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Gobi's Valley RBA Route Idea -Walk towards sphinx getting notes on hill -Get notes on left paw -Get notes behind sphinx -Enter sphinx through seam in back -Get notes inside of sphinx -Exit and get notes on right paw -Get notes by Blue Egg Door -Get notes by Grabba -Get one note on the back of the Speed Climb Pyramid while heading toward running shoes -Get two notes by running shoes -Get notes on side of flip tile pyramid -Get notes going down front of flip tile pyramid -Get notes on left stairs in front of flip tile pyramid -Get notes in bottom pit area in the painful sand -Get notes on right stairs in front of flip tile pyramid -Walk around rim of middle pit getting notes -Get 4 notes on steps up to sandybutt's tomb -Push button to open Speed Climb Pyramid -Get notes on speed climb pyramid -Go inside and fly out of bounds below the water to get notes in Speed Climb Pyramid -Fly through the top of the pyramid to oob warp to start of the level and exit 81 notes Estimated time: 4 minutes -- Also, I found a way to get the Jinjos jiggy in FP "walrusless": Link to video
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Link to video This eliminates backtracking in 100%. You no longer need to visit Freezeezy Peak before Gobi's Valley. I estimate it saves about 2 minutes. It was found by Kirkq, me, and RingRush. Kirkq found you could clip here as bee, RingRush and I thought to try it as Banjo while flying, and I was the first to clip while flying. In any% news: this works as Bee, so +10 more notes in Gobi's Valley (can't get the notes in Sandybutt's Tomb).
BigBoct
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Well that's pretty darn cool. Nice find!
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Patashu
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Can't wait for BK any% and 100% tases :D
My Chiptune music, made in Famitracker: http://soundcloud.com/patashu My twitch. I stream mostly shmups & rhythm games http://twitch.tv/patashu My youtube, again shmups and rhythm games and misc stuff: http://youtube.com/user/patashu
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Wow at those clips! Red feathers are going to become as precious a resource in BK as bombs are in OoT/MM!
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If anyone knows anything about the positions of Conga's jiggies (the orange switches, and shooting him with eggs.), please speak up. I have no idea what changes the spawn positions. If we can get them to spawn on top of each other it may save a few seconds. The current plan is to basically do something similar to what stiv does there. ----- EDIT: Here are some videos/speculation. This guy's conclusions are not well supported at all, but he seems to have randomly replicated it more than most of us by deviating from normal speedrun routes. I can't really support bkDJ's "set at beginning of level" conclusion right now either, there is nothing convincing me that it is true. The jiggy almost always goes one way, and once in a great while it goes another. https://www.youtube.com/watch?&v=JdDM0OlIuww https://www.youtube.com/watch?&v=u8hlXhcR5xk http://forum.speeddemosarchive.com/post/banjokazooie_100_pal301.html ----- - I miscounted notes in GV at some point, it's 93 that are possible now with bee. - BGS is 94 notes possible with no crocodile. - All other worlds 100 are possible with the form we enter as (Banjo/Bee) - Jiggies - Sandcastle jiggy and slider puzzle jiggy were the last two jiggies to be deleted, so jiggies are finalized for now. - Mumbo Tokens - are just about finalized, depends on whether we get a couple specific patches of notes. - Notes - are almost finalized. For now it is certain that we will be getting 100 notes, 5 Mumbo Tokens, and all jiggies associated with MM. All the notes in MM are really fast compared to some later in the game. bkDJ: I don't see red feathers being that scarce in any% at all. In 100% yeah definitely. We use them in any% in TTC, FP, and to get the FP witch switch jiggy and go OoB through the 450 note door. Those are the only spots I can think of. (We don't go to CCW Winter.) I'll do a thorough write-up on notes once we have made up our minds on the last few to discard.
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http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3114&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=1420
The angle the Conga jiggy bounces is random, but set in stone once the level is loaded, so getting the two to overlap involves luck (manipulation) before entering.
Sorry, I don't know how to link directly to posts. But bkDJ probably knows more about this than I do. But I think it depends how how you enter mumbo's mountain. In real time, I've only been able to get it happen once, but I don't recall what I did.
Joined: 7/26/2006
Posts: 1215
When I was testing years ago, I didn't look at memory addresses, I just tried entering at different frames doing different controller input right before, and it would change by a few degrees. Once I was in the level, going in or out of mumbo skull / ant hill and collecting any amount of stuff seemed to have no further effect. At first, I thought it might be like DKC (hey, same company) and the RNG for stuff depended on entry frame, but entering on the same frame with different input changed it sometimes anyway. Edit: well jeez, it was just a spawned objects incrementer all along that resets after any loading zone? Well, fuck me for not taking better notes of what I was doing in the level I guess. :/ Great job Kirkq and Cronikeys! :)
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Kirkq and I found that if you ground pound 4, 5, or 6 huts and then go directly to Conga's area, you will skip the jiggy jig: Link to video The fact that entering a room cancels the effect (by resetting the RNG) makes it inconvenient for any speedrun route, so this won't be used in any% or 100% in Mumbo's Mountain. The same "wrong direction" thing can happen in other levels: http://www.twitch.tv/ringrush/c/1617781 So, maybe there's a use for this RNG manipulation elsewhere.
Joined: 9/18/2012
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Ooh nice job. Too bad it can't be used, unless there's another way to trigger it.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ep9rTbdiGNA I'm not sure how much progress there is in MM, but I think this route may be a couple seconds faster, (getting blue jinjo last and jiggy in water), especially if there is some way to manipulate the bad guy for the hut jiggy (which was very lucky on my part). It would be optimal to get the hut jiggy last to skip the longer jiggy animation thing. Notes (tried to get a video demonstration, but the video came out messed up): -Getting about 5-10 extra seconds on this route (After termite hill, get the rest of the ring of notes, juju, hut jiggy, mumbo jiggy, mumbo notes exit) -I was doing better without the double jiggy (route in video above), but double jiggy is probably OK for tas. Alternate Route: -Break 4 huts -Go to talon trot area instead of termite hill. -Do conga area (the double jiggy thing works...so far it seems like I need at least 56 notes to get it to do right (so collect 1-2 notes from the "5 note" hut ring that you break) -Get the blue jinjo with water trick -Go to green hill thing, but then go to termite hill instead. -get juju/mumbo jiggy, then hut jiggy in some order that is optimal. -Exit Also, in TTC, has anyone tried to clip through the wall/grating inside the boat where the treasures are?
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My route idea: (Get all 5 mumbo tokens, 10 jiggies, 100 notes, no honeycombs) 1: Near Hill: Collect notes at 'B', the jiggy at 'D' and notes at 'C' 2: Ground Pound, smash the back left two huts and collect all of the notes. 3: Termite Hill, Mumbo Token/Notes, (THERE'S A SMALL CHANCE WE WANT THIS EXTRA LIFE, NEED TO COUNT DEATHS), kill the termite at the bottom of the hill at a very specific angle to set up the Conga orange pad jiggy to bounce correctly on top of the Conga eggs jiggy. Get notes towards talon trot. 4: Talon Trot - A: Get Talon Trot, (roll to?) Jiggy, Mumbo Token, talon trot jump from jiggy platform to ruins, Notes, Orange Jinjo - B: Get Talon Trot, Notes, Orange Jinjo, Jiggy, Mumbo Token 5: Far Hill: Everything on the way down to Conga - A: Orange Jinjo, BACDEI,GFH - B: Mumbo Token, CDABEI,GFH 6: Some combination of Conga oranges and eggs and witch switch. - I think this one is fastest, 3 orange pads/grab orange off tree in some order. Flap towards chimpy, give orange to Chimpy and grab jiggy during spawn, talon trot jump, get eggs, shoot conga 3 times while progressing towards mumbo token/witch switch and maybe taking a damage? Ground pound witch switch, grab conga egg jiggy, damage cancel conga orange pad jiggy. For reference: - After Conga jiggy, hitting the last orange pad and getting the jiggy takes about 8 seconds. Taking a damage elsewhere randomly takes about 1.25 seconds. = 9.25 seconds. - Hitting the last orange pad early takes about 1.5 seconds or less, the jiggy spawning animation is about 3 seconds, we wait about 2 seconds for the orange after the conga jiggy, taking damage takes about 1.25 seconds. = 7.75 seconds 6: Do all 3 Conga Orange pads. Have the jiggy bounce on top of where the Conga eggs jiggy will go, do not get the jiggy yet. Grab the orange on the tree. Flap towards chimpy, give orange to Chimpy and grab jiggy during spawn, talon trot jump onto the ledge. Go learn eggs from bottles. Shoot conga 3 times while progressing towards mumbo token/witch switch and maybe taking a damage? Ground pound witch switch, grab both conga jiggies at the same time, eliminating one animation. ------- (Take 2 damage somewhere after talking to bottles for eggs.) 7: Bridge Notes, blue jinjo, talon trot dive into water for notes. 8: Near Hill: A, mumbo token, G (jinjo), H, E, F 9-1: If juju's head is facing correctly, shoot eggs from the very edge of unbroken huts if able. Not having to wait for the jiggy to spawn would be really helpful. 9-2: Break 2 huts from right to left, grab green jinjo, break 3rd hut on left, go back to grab jinjo jiggy and damage cancel. Finish feeding Juju, Mumbo Token, jump, beak, backflip, get Mumbo's Skull eye jiggy. Break last hut in back right corner and damage cancel jiggy 10. -------- (Take 2 damage somewhere after talking to bottles for eggs.) 11: Mumbo's hut notes and die back to beginning off a torch. (EDIT: Dying into mumbo's text with 5 mumbo tokens skips mumbo text later.) I really believe this will provide the fastest route. Double jiggy is just not worth it because you're going to spend too much time going out of your way to get to termite hill later. That by itself cancels out the gains. I did put a lot of thought into this in the past, I just never posted it.