Topic by AirmanRWP

Posted: 9/6/2016 1:39 AM

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AirmanRWP

Joined: 12/1/2008
Posts: 32

Congratulations! Cant wait to see it, you've done outstanding work!

Of course we graduated cock, beer? ~ Joseph "Airman" Cooper from BASEketball.

Posted: 9/6/2016 2:36 AM

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Hyperresonance

Player (195)

Joined: 8/10/2013
Posts: 161

Thanks! It feels great to be finally done. I am unfamiliar with encoding and stuff, and my computer is not the best, so if someone would be willing to help me with that I would greatly appreciate it.

Projects: Banjo-Kazooie Any% with FFM

Posted: 9/6/2016 2:40 AM

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Weatherton

Experienced player (601)

Joined: 10/23/2004
Posts: 706

I'm excited to watch!! :) (coincidentally, I just finished my Mario Kart 64 run a few days ago... submission text is a lot of work!)

Current Project: - Mario Kart 64

Posted: 9/6/2016 6:02 AM

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dekutony

Experienced player (630)

Joined: 11/23/2013
Posts: 2208
Location: Guatemala

Holy shit, 2 super great Star quality N64 runs for the weekend!??? I DON'T THINK I CAN HANDLE THIS GUYS PLS SEND HELP

Here, my YouTube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/dekutony

Posted: 9/6/2016 9:13 AM

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lxx4xNx6xxl

Joined: 11/26/2010
Posts: 444
Location: New York, US

Kurabupengin wrote:

Holy shit, 2 super great Star quality N64 runs for the weekend!??? I DON'T THINK I CAN HANDLE THIS GUYS PLS SEND HELP

I'm very excited to watch both of those too!!!

My name is 4N6/Forensics.

Posted: 9/6/2016 9:27 AM

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Patashu

He/Him

Joined: 10/2/2005
Posts: 4014

The only thing that would make it better if, say, someone managed to sync the Perfect Dark TAS this weekend ;)

My Chiptune music, made in Famitracker: http://soundcloud.com/patashu My twitch. I stream mostly shmups & rhythm games http://twitch.tv/patashu My youtube, again shmups and rhythm games and misc stuff: http://youtube.com/user/patashu

Posted: 9/6/2016 1:41 PM

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Mitjitsu

He/Him

Banned User, Experienced player (532)

Joined: 4/24/2006
Posts: 2997

We're still waiting on the 1 Key TAS of Mario 64.

Posted: 9/6/2016 2:26 PM

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Hyperresonance

Player (195)

Joined: 8/10/2013
Posts: 161

Hehe I wouldn't consider my run star quality up through BGS or so, but the second half is much more optimized.

Projects: Banjo-Kazooie Any% with FFM

Posted: 9/6/2016 7:55 PM

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GloriousLiar

He/Him

Player (150)

Joined: 4/20/2016
Posts: 63
Location: Texas

Can't wait! Great job.

I am a sad avian

Posted: 9/10/2016 1:40 AM

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Spacecow

He/Him

Joined: 6/21/2004
Posts: 247
Location: New Hampshire

Very excited to see this!

Posted: 9/13/2016 2:54 AM

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Weegeechan

Former player

Joined: 4/18/2015
Posts: 168
Location: Canada

That was such a great watch! All of your hard work really payed off! :) I know it will be a while, but I can't wait for the any% TAS!

Posted: 9/13/2016 11:09 AM

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lxx4xNx6xxl

Joined: 11/26/2010
Posts: 444
Location: New York, US

Weatherton wrote:

I'm excited to watch!! :) (coincidentally, I just finished my Mario Kart 64 run a few days ago... submission text is a lot of work!)

I can only imagine how hard it is for both hyperresonance and yourself. Looking forward to both of these runs!!! We also got the Mario 64 TAS to look forward to this month. Its a great year for N64 TAS'. Gonna be some fierce competition for N64 TAS of the Year IMO. Good Luck Everyone!!!

My name is 4N6/Forensics.

Posted: 9/19/2016 1:51 AM

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Hyperresonance

Player (195)

Joined: 8/10/2013
Posts: 161

It's submitted :) Enjoy everyone!

Projects: Banjo-Kazooie Any% with FFM

Posted: 9/22/2016 1:05 AM

Post subject: FFM in the Any% TAS

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The8bitbeast

He/Him

Expert player (2523)

Joined: 11/26/2015
Posts: 183
Location: Australia

Now that the 100% Banjo-Kazooie TAS is finished, Hyperresonance and I have started planning an any% TAS. We would like to hear opinions from the TASvideos community about the use of the FFM (Furnace Fun Moves) glitch for this TAS. FFM is a glitch in Banjo-Kazooie which allows you to transfer moves learnt between files. This means that a new game can be started with all of the moves already learnt as soon as Mumbo’s Mountain is entered. For an in depth description of the glitch see: http://pastebin.com/rNaSUVqK FFM is used in every full game category of the RTA community. In 100% it saves roughly 3-4 minutes, but in any% it saves even more time as it allows 8 Jiggies to be skipped. To use FFM, a game must be completed up to Furnace Fun with the moves learnt that are to be transferred. This would mean starting the TAS from dirty SRAM. A button file of roughly 40 minutes would be included in submission of the TAS to achieve this SRAM state. While starting from dirty SRAM can be controversial, it would benefit the TAS for the following reasons. Using FFM would allow the TAS to achieve a faster time. It would also mean that the TAS route is closer to the standard route for speedruns, so the TAS can set a good example for speedrunners. This would make the TAS a lot more meaningful to the community. The 100% TAS did not use FFM as it doesn’t make as much difference in that category and FFM was found after that TAS was started. In any%, levels like Mumbos Mountain are similar to 100%, but using FFM would change the route due to the immediate use of talon trot. This would keep the TAS original rather than just redoing the early game of 100%. Using FFM allows a glitch to enter Frezeezy Peak without opening it, this would be more entertaining as it shows off more glitches. The alternative (opening FP) would be less entertaining as it is a fairly long section of straight forward lair movement and not very exciting. The other entertainment advantage of using FFM is that the intro story and enter lair cutscene would be skippable due to the previous save data. This skips roughly 4 minutes of tedious cutscenes and resets.

Posted: 9/22/2016 1:11 AM

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arandomgameTASer

He/Him

Editor, Expert player (2001)

Joined: 8/25/2013
Posts: 1199

I would say yeah, go ahead and do it. If that's what RTA already does then I don't see why not for a TAS.

effort on the first draft means less effort on any draft thereafter - some loser

Posted: 9/22/2016 1:12 AM

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ais523

Editor, Player (44)

Joined: 7/11/2010
Posts: 1022

My opinion on FFM is that it classifies a game as "glitched newgame+", rather than being in the more common "newgame" category that starts from a blank cartridge. However, obtaining newgame+ status via a glitch is fairly interesting to look at, and if it makes for a more entertaining run in other ways, it may make for a better category than newgame any%. One thing to be wary of is that the time spent loading the second save file after a reset and setting up the glitch would probably count against your run time total, at least the way that TASes are normally timed; this is a much shorter time period than that needed to create the save file in the first place, but it's still going to be quite relevant. If the glitch still saves time despite this (and because newgame+ also lets you skip the intro cutscene, it almost certainly does), it's definitely worth adding it into the run even though it requires a category change. If this setup costs more time than the trick saves in the first place, the glitch is going to be quite hard to defend from a categorisation point of view.

Posted: 9/22/2016 1:22 AM

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Samsara

She/They

Senior Judge, Site Admin, Expert player (2120)

Joined: 11/13/2006
Posts: 2792
Location: Northern California

It's probably an acceptable category, though I wouldn't count it as an any% run. Only way to find out if it's acceptable here is to finish it and submit it and see what the audience thinks, though. Please though for the love of God make and provide a verification movie that sets up this glitch so we don't have another DKR shitstorm on our hands.

TASvideos Admin and acting Senior Judge 💙 | Cohost

warmCabin wrote:

You shouldn't need a degree in computer science to get into this hobby.

Posted: 9/22/2016 1:36 AM

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ais523

Editor, Player (44)

Joined: 7/11/2010
Posts: 1022

To elaborate on what Samsara is saying for people who missed the previous incident: basically, you'll save everyone (including yourselves) a lot of trouble if you make a run that starts from a blank cartridge and sets up the save files appropriately for FFM on the same emulator you plan to use for the main movie (recording as you go), and then save the recording and resulting SRAM somewhere safe, starting the submitted movie as a save-anchored movie from the SRAM in question. There's no need for this preliminary recording (the verification recording) to be optimized in any way; it could just be someone playing realtime. Its purpose is to make sure that the save file you're starting from is something that's achievable via normal gameplay, and not having it tends to lead to a huge row.

Posted: 9/22/2016 1:46 AM

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Samsara

She/They

Senior Judge, Site Admin, Expert player (2120)

Joined: 11/13/2006
Posts: 2792
Location: Northern California

Plus, we can't actually judge the run without a verification file, as we would have no way of knowing the exact setup used for the run, and thus we wouldn't actually be able to play the submission, and thus we would reject the run because we can't verify it, and because it doesn't follow the site rules. And keep in mind this strictly has to be a movie starting from power-on that achieves the exact state that the submission starts in. Providing just a save file is not enough, as we would not be able to conclusively prove that the save file is legitimate and unmodified.

TASvideos Admin and acting Senior Judge 💙 | Cohost

warmCabin wrote:

You shouldn't need a degree in computer science to get into this hobby.

Posted: 9/22/2016 1:48 AM

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Weatherton

Experienced player (601)

Joined: 10/23/2004
Posts: 706

FFM sounds like the Diddy Kong Racing run that was rejected. That submission had many good points on why such a run should not be accepted: http://tasvideos.org/3831S.html http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=13743

Current Project: - Mario Kart 64

Posted: 9/22/2016 5:36 AM

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andypanther

Any

Former player

Joined: 6/30/2010
Posts: 1093
Location: Zurich, Switzerland

Weatherton wrote:

FFM sounds like the Diddy Kong Racing run that was rejected. That submission had many good points on why such a run should not be accepted: http://tasvideos.org/3831S.html http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=13743

The main difference is that the NG+ glitch in BK is widely accepted and used by the games community, while the 5 minute DKR run is mostly seen as a novelty thing that can be used to show off how broken the game is, but not a serious category. From a technical perspective, both runs are the same, but the BK one is obviously much more interesting. If I was to decide, I would allow such a run to be published, if the audience likes it.

Current project: Gex 3 any% Paused: Gex 64 any% There are no N64 emulators. Just SM64 emulators with hacky support for all the other games.

Posted: 9/22/2016 8:42 PM

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ais523

Editor, Player (44)

Joined: 7/11/2010
Posts: 1022

I think the main difference here is that what gets copied in the DKR run is a major part of the game's logic (whether or not the endgame is open), whereas what gets copied in the BK run is comparatively minor (what moves the character's have access to). This doesn't change the category itself, but it does change how entertaining the resulting run is. In DKR, it feels pretty much as though the runner is cheating in order to complete the bulk of the game. In BK, the same trick doesn't achieve nearly as much, and the bulk of the game still has to be played, just with a few more movement options than before. I used to be a teacher, and this situation is a bit like marking someone's programming assignments. Students are allowed to use code from elsewhere, as long as they give credit for it. If they copy the whole code from somewhere else, they get no marks because they didn't do anything on their own. If they copy code from elsewhere but still do most of the work, they can get very high or even full marks (if the external code does a job that they weren't being assessed on). In DKR, what you're basically doing is recompleting a completed game, because so much of the effort required to complete the game is being copied over. Meanwhile, the glitched newgame+ in BK feels a lot more like an actual newgame+ category (preserving the capabilities of the character but resetting everything else is the most common newgame+ definition in games that add them intentionally), plays like one, and most of the gameplay of the game is still intact.

Posted: 9/22/2016 10:28 PM

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The8bitbeast

He/Him

Expert player (2523)

Joined: 11/26/2015
Posts: 183
Location: Australia

If we make the choice to use FFM, a verification movie will definitely be provided. Even with the timing starting from power on (with SRAM) FFM will still be worth it as it only takes 2 minutes or so to set up. We understand that the TAS cannot simply be labeled any%, but perhaps any% ‘FFM’ or any% ‘Dirty SRAM’ would be a more appropriate name than something like newgame+. It’s important to have any% contained within the title, because if a 100% TAS were made using FFM in the future, the naming would clash with any%. Hopefully this TAS can set an example and inspire other ‘Dirty SRAM’ TAS’s like DKR with TT, DK64 with ISG and Tooie with DCW to name a few.

Posted: 9/29/2016 4:52 PM

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r0bd0g

Joined: 3/15/2012
Posts: 70
Location: Canada

I'm gonna go ahead and stick my nose in where it doesn't belong. Just because FFM is used in the RTA community doesn't mean the TAS ought to make the same mistake. Glitched NG+ is a slippery slope b/c what happens to the category if you figure out how to carry the jiggies and the notes over from an existing file, too? I don't understand how that community actually came to this decision... There's a big difference between NG+ and Glitched NG+, isn't there? (Skyward Sword is a game which I think demonstrates that difference rather effectively.)

Posted: 9/29/2016 4:59 PM

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ais523

Editor, Player (44)

Joined: 7/11/2010
Posts: 1022

If you could carry the jiggies and notes over, then you'd probably have to stop using FFM, as it wouldn't make sense to use the glitch for a suboptimal use and the optimal one would be boring. Luckily, there's no known way to do that.