Topic by Sir_VG

Can't there be 2 versions of Metroid Prime? The Gamecube version is indeed better. However, the Wii version should not be ignored. Either way, I will enjoy seeing 100% on the Prime Trilogy.

Posted: 11/13/2009 3:27 PM

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AngerFist

Active player (432)

Joined: 4/21/2004
Posts: 3517
Location: Stockholm, Sweden

MezzoDragon wrote:

Can't there be 2 versions of Metroid Prime? The Gamecube version is indeed better. However, the Wii version should not be ignored. Either way, I will enjoy seeing 100% on the Prime Trilogy.

I don't understand. Besides a tad enhancement in the graphics, the Wii version offers nothing new. The GC version is the way to go if you wanna see sequence breaks and most importantly, tricks.

Nitrogenesis wrote:

Guys I come from the DidyKnogRacist communite, and you are all wrong, tihs is the run of the mileniun and everyone who says otherwise dosnt know any bater! I found this run vary ease to masturbate too!!!! Don't fuck with me, I know this game so that mean I'm always right!StupedfackincommunityTASVideoz!!!!!!

Arc wrote:

I enjoyed this movie in which hands firmly gripping a shaft lead to balls deep in multiple holes.

natt wrote:

I don't want to get involved in this discussion, but as a point of fact C# is literally the first goddamn thing on that fucking page you linked did you even fucking read it

Cooljay wrote:

Mayor Haggar and Cody are such nice people for the community. Metro City's hospitals reached an all time new record of incoming patients due to their great efforts :P

Posted: 11/13/2009 3:31 PM

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funnyhair

Player (116)

Joined: 5/13/2009
Posts: 700
Location: suffern, ny

Yes i agree, the GC version is the way to go. I remember watching it on SDA and I was amazed! Plus the ones on the Wii are just remakes, so there's no change.

[19:16] <scrimpy> silly portuguese [19:16] <scrimpy> it's like spanish, only less cool

Posted: 11/13/2009 9:41 PM

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Captain_Forehead

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Joined: 7/7/2008
Posts: 872
Location: Utah

Plus, by using the mouse as the wii remote instead of just controlling the "aimer" with the control stick, you'd think it'd be easier to do the Gamecube version.

Posted: 11/13/2009 9:45 PM

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moozooh

Senior Moderator

Joined: 8/4/2005
Posts: 5770
Location: Away

Wiimote's cursor's positioning speed is capped by the game's framerate, while GC's thumbstick has a maximum movement speed. Of course, this alone doesn't make the Wii version preferable.

Warp wrote:

Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.

Posted: 11/13/2009 10:03 PM

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I seem to recall hearing that the Wii version has faster loading times, and in general being able to aim manually without having to stop moving (or lose control of your jump) would be very nice...but the inability to completely break the game sequence is a big minus. Were there any similar patch jobs done to the sequence in Prime 2? Mind, that'd be one long TAS...

Pyrel - an open-source rewrite of the Angband roguelike game in Python.

Posted: 11/13/2009 10:12 PM

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EEssentia

Joined: 4/13/2009
Posts: 431

One long TAS with lots of goodness? Yes, please :)

Posted: 11/13/2009 10:41 PM

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moozooh

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Don't forget that tool-assisted scandashes are going to look very disorienting, close to incomprehensible, due to rapid angle changes and moving sideways.

Warp wrote:

Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.

Posted: 11/13/2009 11:43 PM

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Derakon

Joined: 7/2/2007
Posts: 3960

Are we going to have to start putting motion-sickness warnings on our videos? I initially meant that jokingly, but thinking about it, it might actually be warranted sometimes...

Pyrel - an open-source rewrite of the Angband roguelike game in Python.

Posted: 11/14/2009 9:02 AM

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DoctorJohn

Joined: 8/17/2007
Posts: 41

Just put " If the Bourne Ultimatum made you sick. Do not watch." Or something.

Posted: 11/14/2009 11:04 AM

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TakaM

Joined: 3/25/2008
Posts: 64

Put me down for a GCN run, if anyone plans on doing a 100% or a legit run, then maybe go with the Wii version.

.II

Posted: 11/16/2009 7:48 AM

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Kitsune

Joined: 4/29/2005
Posts: 1212

They added the ability to Morph Ball Jump in the Wii Versions of MP and MP2. You just flick the wiimote upward. That would actually save a little time in terms or Bomb Jumping, since you can jump just as high with the wiimote, as you do with bomb jumping. But, yeah, in a 100% TAS, the Wii version would probably be preferable.

Posted: 11/16/2009 1:52 PM

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Graveworm

Former player

Joined: 9/29/2005
Posts: 460

moozooh wrote:

Don't forget that tool-assisted scandashes are going to look very disorienting, close to incomprehensible, due to rapid angle changes and moving sideways.

I'm not too sure about that, unless you go beyond what the controller can do, which I believe would count as modifying the hardware, you can't really turn around that fast. But yes, alot of time will be spent going sideways, but you can always use the "R" button to turn around during dashes without losing speed. I do believe you walk faster diagonally though, and if that's true I guess there wont be much room for actually moving straight forward.

Posted: 11/16/2009 2:06 PM

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moozooh

Senior Moderator

Joined: 8/4/2005
Posts: 5770
Location: Away

I was mostly talking about turning sideways and back all the time so it's impossible to tell the exact direction you're going. (I believe the published Duke Nukem 64 TAS is similar in this regard.) I found scandashes pretty disorienting in unassisted speedruns, but in a TAS they're just going to be faster and more numerous so I guess there's no escaping it. Which is why I'm likely going to agree with Kitsune that at least the 100% should be made on the Wii version to avoid excessive brain damage.

Warp wrote:

Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.

Posted: 11/16/2009 2:17 PM

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Graveworm

Former player

Joined: 9/29/2005
Posts: 460

I guess we'll just have to wait and see, hopefully it's gonna be possible to make it look smooth.

Posted: 11/16/2009 2:18 PM

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moozooh

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Joined: 8/4/2005
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Yeah, I sure hope so. :)

Warp wrote:

Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.

Posted: 5/20/2010 9:55 PM

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AngerFist

Active player (432)

Joined: 4/21/2004
Posts: 3517
Location: Stockholm, Sweden

For reference:

supposedly, these two segments http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4b46d8ouOI&feature=player_embedded and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0FwXGKTNKEs&feature=player_embedded by sparky indicates that a :59 speedrun is indeed possible.

Imagine how fast we can go in a tas..

Nitrogenesis wrote:

Guys I come from the DidyKnogRacist communite, and you are all wrong, tihs is the run of the mileniun and everyone who says otherwise dosnt know any bater! I found this run vary ease to masturbate too!!!! Don't fuck with me, I know this game so that mean I'm always right!StupedfackincommunityTASVideoz!!!!!!

Arc wrote:

I enjoyed this movie in which hands firmly gripping a shaft lead to balls deep in multiple holes.

natt wrote:

I don't want to get involved in this discussion, but as a point of fact C# is literally the first goddamn thing on that fucking page you linked did you even fucking read it

Cooljay wrote:

Mayor Haggar and Cody are such nice people for the community. Metro City's hospitals reached an all time new record of incoming patients due to their great efforts :P

Posted: 2/13/2011 8:29 PM

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petrie911

Joined: 7/16/2006
Posts: 635

Well, with the new developments in Dolphin, I think it's time to take TASing this game seriously. As a demonstration of Dolphin's newfound rerecording ability, I made this demonstration of the iconic Space Jump First trick. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jpX-E1XRiYY However, before we can even start TASing the Frigate, there's some things that need to be decided. Which version should we use? This really isn't a difficult question, but considering the debate above, I feel I should address it. There isn't a single version difference that doesn't make NTSC 0-00 faster. It is the only version that can go sub-1:00 and I believe the only version that can do 21%. While the Trilogy version could make for an interesting TAS, but it should be alongside a NTSC 0-00 TAS, not in place of it. Do we go for real time or game time? This, on the other hand, is a rather important question. I'm honestly not sure on this one. Historically Metroid Prime has always been timed by game time, but the same could be said of Super Metroid and we use real time for that. Admittedly real time vs game time probably makes less of a difference in Prime, but the differences are there, one of which is very early in the Frigate. Do we start with a save file to allow cutscene skip? Since all Prime speedrunners have completed the game at least once, cutscene skip has always been enabled and used in Prime speedruns. However, TASvideos prefers to start from a fresh game. This means that no cutscenes are skippable. While Prime admittedly doesn't have a whole lot of cutscenes, it does make one significant difference. I believe that this speed trick against the Omega Pirate can only be done with cutscene skip.

Posted: 2/13/2011 9:27 PM
(Edited: 2/13/2011 9:30 PM)

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Derakon

Joined: 7/2/2007
Posts: 3960

Not being a part of the Prime speedrunning scene, I'd say start from a fresh file. My eye's more on the entertainment factor than on the timing factor, and IMO leaving the cutscenes in would, for Prime, make a more entertaining movie. Maybe not for Prime 3, which drags on rather longer... I agree with you on version choice. As for realtime vs. gametime, generally I favor realtime but I don't know what the tradeoffs would be in this case. Could you give some more details? Also, I'm looking forward to seeing this!

Pyrel - an open-source rewrite of the Angband roguelike game in Python.

Posted: 2/13/2011 9:28 PM

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Miles

Joined: 11/21/2006
Posts: 94

Which version should we use?

...I'm not going to even bother to provide an answer for this.

Do we go for real time or game time?

The only reason I can think of for game time is to compare with unassisted runs... Which you can't do anyway because of the lack of loading. Go for real-time.

Do we start with a save file to allow cutscene skip?

For Prime 2 I would say "Oh God yes"; it's not as necessary for Prime 1, though I would still prefer it.

Posted: 2/13/2011 9:44 PM
(Edited: 2/14/2011 3:44 AM)

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petrie911

Joined: 7/16/2006
Posts: 635

Derakon wrote:

I agree with you on version choice. As for realtime vs. gametime, generally I favor realtime but I don't know what the tradeoffs would be in this case. Could you give some more details?

The major things I can see are that Elevators and item collection scenes no longer cost zero time. This makes it less advantageous to collect the Ice Spreader and Boost Ball. All of these would require an in-depth look at the route. There also a lot of minor things. It's faster in real time to skip the first elevator cutscene in the Frigate by leaving the room as you finish scanning, but not in game time. Collecting the Artifact of Sun with the Infinite Speed glitch becomes more advantageous, as it skips the cutscene associated with the chozo statue. Getting the boost ball becomes less advantageous as it has a Ridley cutscene associated with it. Probably a bunch more I can't think of at the moment. With cutscene skips, there's a couple cutscenes that save game time by not being skipped, as they move Samus forward while the clock isn't running. Without cutscene skips, the Omega Pirate example above makes for something interesting. If not being able to use the cutscene skip strat on him loses enough time, it might be faster in game time to save in Metroid Quarantine B and kill yourself against him. This would allow you to skip the cutscene when you go back to fight him again. It is a lot less likely this would save any time in real time. EDIT: removed Charge and Thermal from the questionable items. Charge absolutely saves time, Thermal absolutely does not.

Posted: 2/13/2011 10:17 PM

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darkszero

He/Him

Joined: 7/12/2009
Posts: 181
Location: São Paulo, Brazil

I wonder how many tas only tricks Prime 1 may be hiding that may affect the route massively. I'd say go for real time, since that one makes more sense for the casual viewer.

Posted: 2/14/2011 1:02 AM

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Derakon

Joined: 7/2/2007
Posts: 3960

Ah, the old item-get delay. Ehh. I'm sure there will be a 100% run that will be able to show off the Ice Spreader et al, so no worries about missing out on them for the any% run. Otherwise it sounds mostly like there are some things you'd want to do to avoid cutscenes, and the Omega Pirate, neither of which I think are huge dealbreakers, so I'd still say go for realtime.

Pyrel - an open-source rewrite of the Angband roguelike game in Python.