KennyMan666
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Joined: 8/24/2005
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Location: Göteboj
Looking good, however, I'm pretty convinced that when climbing a rope, holding up and mashing jump is faster than regrabbing the rope at the peak of jumps. Can't really give you any exact figures, but it looked like I got up in fewer frames when mashing A.
Det man inte har i begåvning får man ta ut i energi. "I think I need to get to Snoop Dogg's level of high to be able to research this post." -Samsara Read my fanfic, One Piece: Pure Corruption
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Okay i tested it on the rope at the sky(longest): If i hold up and press jump every second frame i will lose 3 frames If i hold up and press jump every third frame i will gain 1 frame If i hold up and press jump every fourth frame i will lose 3 frames I also tested it on the shorter ropes and could not improve, so i think you will need to jump like 8-10 times every third frame and you will gain 1 frame.
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Joined: 9/5/2006
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WIP
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Joined: 9/5/2006
Posts: 37
Location: Finland
Bleh! Of course, you can just use Gil to charge Bop, so you can skip Bop-louie's secret weapon.
How do you do that? Heart just disappears when i change to bob.
KennyMan666
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Joined: 8/24/2005
Posts: 375
Location: Göteboj
You change character in mid-charge, not when you already have charged.
Det man inte har i begåvning får man ta ut i energi. "I think I need to get to Snoop Dogg's level of high to be able to research this post." -Samsara Read my fanfic, One Piece: Pure Corruption
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I think this can be a glitch: and then some mysterious "warp": EDIT: This glitch just demands a reset during normal gameplay and makes no use for a TAS.
<klmz> it reminds me of that people used to keep quoting adelikat's IRC statements in the old good days <adelikat> no doubt <adelikat> klmz, they still do
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it's been a while but here's a new WIP
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Looks nice. BTW, I am always curious about the "flying-around egg" which sometimes appears and self-destructs soon after you enter the corridor (where the gate to the final stage is) from the left enterance. Do you know what is it?
<klmz> it reminds me of that people used to keep quoting adelikat's IRC statements in the old good days <adelikat> no doubt <adelikat> klmz, they still do
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Joined: 10/27/2004
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Adebis wrote:
it's been a while but here's a new WIP
Of this movie I most heartily approve. Keep it up!
A hundred years from now, they will gaze upon my work and marvel at my skills but never know my name. And that will be good enough for me.
KennyMan666
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Joined: 8/24/2005
Posts: 375
Location: Göteboj
That is indeed awesome, looking forwards to a complete run.
Det man inte har i begåvning får man ta ut i energi. "I think I need to get to Snoop Dogg's level of high to be able to research this post." -Samsara Read my fanfic, One Piece: Pure Corruption
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Finally finished this http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/25815755/UfouriaTAS_2532.fm2 It is good enough to submit?
klmz wrote:
BTW, I am always curious about the "flying-around egg" which sometimes appears and self-destructs soon after you enter the corridor (where the gate to the final stage is) from the left enterance. Do you know what is it?
I think i have seen that but i have no idea what it is.
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Adebis wrote:
It is good enough to submit?
Definitely, go for it. I loved every second of it, good job.
KennyMan666
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Joined: 8/24/2005
Posts: 375
Location: Göteboj
Five year old topic, arise! Well, 4½. Ish. Because I'm now back to being hard at work at recording my realtime runs of this. Any% and 100%. I got a 100% recorded, but counted 45-ish seconds wasted, so I've been trying again. And then this happened, costing me a 20-25 second improvement. I'm showing this here because... I don't know. It's the first time I've ever seen anything remotely like it, I've done the motions in this video countless times. I definitely don't think I'd be able to reproduce it on emulator, even if I do the exact same things seen in this video. I'm just grasping at straws to find answers, and you people if any seem like the guys who'd be able to figure something out. The full 20-minute video can be found here.
Det man inte har i begåvning får man ta ut i energi. "I think I need to get to Snoop Dogg's level of high to be able to research this post." -Samsara Read my fanfic, One Piece: Pure Corruption
AnS
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Well, no FM2 - no figuring out.
KennyMan666
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Joined: 8/24/2005
Posts: 375
Location: Göteboj
I, uh, found a thing, coincidentally the same day as I bumped this topic. It's kind of huge, but can't actually be used for an any% TAS - because doing it requires having Shades (so maybe for a 100% TAS, I guess?). The idea was gotten after rereading this post by Blublu:
Blublu wrote:
About the swimming. Did you make sure to drift forwards after switching to Freeon-leeon? I think pressing forwards too soon can actually slow you down, since Bop-louie moves faster than Freeon-leeon, and you have Bop-louie's velocity when hitting the water. Am I making any sense at all? Anyway, I think the way I did this is, I jumped as far as possible with Bop-louie, then switched to Freeon-leeon and let him drift forwards, and only pressed forwards when the drifting had slowed down to his normal speed. Something.
So, I tried that. Found it to be a thing. Then started thinking about if that preservation of velocity might have other applications. It does. Saves three minutes right there. Definitely the biggest find in this game since the switch glitch. At least for realtime any% running, the Shades skip kind of beats it a lot for TASing.
Det man inte har i begåvning får man ta ut i energi. "I think I need to get to Snoop Dogg's level of high to be able to research this post." -Samsara Read my fanfic, One Piece: Pure Corruption
Joined: 5/29/2011
Posts: 8
Location: Sweden
Hi, I dunno if awakening this topic is really what I should be doing or if I should have made a new one (since there hasn't been very much discussion in this one about tricks found later than 2008) but anyway this is what I'm doing now. Anyway, I've been casually speedrunning this game for a little while now and in learning where the game is at at the moment I've noticed that there is one trick that has been found at some point that isn't used in the TAS, which should be able to save a little more time. I haven't been able to find it mentioned on SDA or here so I've investigated it a bit (really hoping I didn't just fail miserably at searching, that would be embarrassing :x ). It wasn't me who found the trick but I don't know who did, so I'll name it "crawl jumping". Basically you press down, right and jump on the same frame and hold jump for at least 2 more frames when up against a left facing wall. This will cause you to do a crawl animation while jumping, and once the animation ends up until the time that it would actually end if you were on the ground (I believe it was 25 frames) you can do a second jump off the wall. The window for doing the second jump depends on how long you held the jump button, because the time at which you can do it only starts just after you stop gaining height (you kind of twitch upward a bit, presumably to the nearest tile). Because of this doing small jumps is extremely reliable even in real time, whereas doing bigger ones is up to frame perfect. This is far more reliable in real time than the old way of doing the Shades skip though. These jumps can be linked together indefinitely by the following input: Do initial crawl jump -> hold down forward and jump 1 frame then jump another 2 frames -> repeat when you reach the jump frame window. This isn't useful however because of two things. Firstly, as far as I've been able to find out this is only usable on left facing walls, so you can't use it to skip the suction cups or such (though that might not be possible anyway because of the more limited capabilities of the technique in relation to wall climbing). Secondly, it's not possible to crawl jump off ice (only real ice though, frozen enemies do work) so it's not possible to do something like climbing up the hole from the door leading to the temple (which could potentially have been used in 100% to get the medicine by a better route). Despite the problems it could save some time in the any% category mainly by doing a jump off the wall with the climbing thing right at the start of the game, rather than waiting for it to come down (in fact, this is a point where you can do the super reliable large frame window jump, so I even use it in my real time attempts) and by doing the Shades skip slightly faster. It can also be used to get the hammer early in 100% by doing a charge swap to freeze an enemy and doing a crawl jump off it onto the platform. This trick also works on console (have tested). Also, here is my real time pb (which uses the trick) if anyone's interested (don't mind the slight video editing error at the start): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJzTpdoexQ4 I haven't tried TASing the game any as of yet, but it's still on the table.
It is our company's bold vision to be the first in introducing robot slavery to the 11th century.
KennyMan666
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Joined: 8/24/2005
Posts: 375
Location: Göteboj
Yeah, it's a known trick. I don't think it was found until after the latest TAS though. I don't actually remember the nick of the guy who found it but he was running on the Japanese version. I never did manage to get it consistently on console... And in 100% I can't imagine it's faster getting the hammer that way instead of just quickly grabbing it when coming down after getting the suction cup. Man, I really need to get back to running Ufouria. It was my first speedgame after all.
Det man inte har i begåvning får man ta ut i energi. "I think I need to get to Snoop Dogg's level of high to be able to research this post." -Samsara Read my fanfic, One Piece: Pure Corruption
Joined: 5/29/2011
Posts: 8
Location: Sweden
The hardest part of it that I've found in real time is timing the inputs to be on the same frame. You can get a crawling animation even if you mistime it by one frame, but then the second jump doesn't work (you can see it by the fact that you don't twitch into position). You can do a kind of rhythm on the inputs that makes it fairly reliable, but still second split has my largest number of resets for sure. I think getting the hammer early should save a few seconds, but I haven't timed it obviously. Anyway, it is a minor thing I would agree. And yeah, I've been having a lot of fun with the game <3
It is our company's bold vision to be the first in introducing robot slavery to the 11th century.
KennyMan666
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Joined: 8/24/2005
Posts: 375
Location: Göteboj
If you get the hammer without the suction cup, then getting back out of the little cave it's in is awkward if you're planning on going up (which is where you're heading if you don't have the suction cup) afterwards, which is a reason I believe it won't be faster. Plus, doing a switch glitch means going into the subscreen twice in addition to the chargeup time. And I do grab the hammer in any% too, now that I think about it.
Det man inte har i begåvning får man ta ut i energi. "I think I need to get to Snoop Dogg's level of high to be able to research this post." -Samsara Read my fanfic, One Piece: Pure Corruption
Joined: 5/29/2011
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Hmm, I'm not completely sure about the 100% route so we might not be on the same page about how much time it takes to go out of the way to get it. Doing the Shades skip should be faster in 100% as well because otherwise you have to do two visits to the mine since you need Gil to get the blue ring. Then after that you take the spring up to get the map on the way to the water of life and the blue key, so the time uncertainty is if it's faster to go up and get the hammer at that point or to do that earlier when you go to get the suction cup. Thinking about it I might actually not go for the early hammer in future real time attempts (though I haven't done very many) because the window to actually save time on it is probably pretty small (and that's a low frame window jump cause it's so high), but I do think it'd probably save time in a TAS. I really should measure the difference, I might do that later.
It is our company's bold vision to be the first in introducing robot slavery to the 11th century.
KennyMan666
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Joined: 8/24/2005
Posts: 375
Location: Göteboj
Okay, I confused my things, hammer was part of my old any% route (which was pre-Shades skip) but not the new one, but I grab the hammer like I said before in 100%. So I'm pretty sure my routes are as follows: Any%: Freeon-Leeon - Return egg - Suction cup - Medicine (gate room) - Gil - Red key - Medicine (water maze entrance) - Gil's secret weapon - Shades - Blue key - Medicine (dark area) - Green key - Unyo. 100%: Freeon-Leeon - Bop-Louie's secret weapon - Crystal - Return egg - Suction cup - Power of Insight - Shades' secret weapon - Medicine (gate room) - Gil - Red key - Heart container (left of red key) - Medicine (bottom of Gil area) - Heart container (underneath starting area) - Red power ring - Shades - Freeon-Leeon's secret weapon - Heart container (ice dungeon) - Blue power ring - Compass - Water of Life - Blue key - Map - Medicine (water maze entrance) - Green power ring - Gil's secret weapon - Heart container (dark area) - Medicine (dark area) - Green key - Unyo. Final medicine in any% is mostly a safety medicine and can be skipped. Considered getting bombs right after Gil in 100%, but I've been pretty sure that's slower due to the heart container under the start being awkward to work into that route. I do guess an alternative there is to head back into the mines and take the waterway to that heart container after getting the blue key (picking up the either before or after), and then go up the waterfall and head to the green key (which would also move the medicine at the bottom of the Gil area to there). But that still sounds like more travel time to me. I should do some testing.
Det man inte har i begåvning får man ta ut i energi. "I think I need to get to Snoop Dogg's level of high to be able to research this post." -Samsara Read my fanfic, One Piece: Pure Corruption
Joined: 5/29/2011
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Oh yeah, you do deathless right? I do with death warping so it's a bit different. My routes as of now are as follows: Any%: Same as current TAS route + medicine before bombs and medicine before green key (the first for bomb boss damage boosts, the second for Unyo damage boosts/safety). 100%: Freeon-Leeon - Bop-Louie's secret weapon - Crystal - Shades' secret weapon (original point, but I may move this as mentioned) - Return egg - Suction cup - Power of Insight - Death warp - Gil - Red key - Heart container (left of red key) - Medicine in gate room - Death warp - Medicine (water maze entrance) - Green power ring - Gil's secret weapon - Death warp - Shades - Red ring - Compass - Blue ring - Map - (Would then get the hammer here instead) - Water of Life - Blue key - Death warp - Container at start (could get this before, I just arbitrarily choose this point) - Container in ice area - Freeon-Leeon's secret weapon - Death warp - Medicine (bottom of Gil area) - Heart container (dark area) - Medicine (dark area) - Green key - Unyo. I have been pretty interested in the deathless routes, since most of the people I've been able to find who play the game now or in the last couple of years do death warps.
It is our company's bold vision to be the first in introducing robot slavery to the 11th century.
KennyMan666
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Joined: 8/24/2005
Posts: 375
Location: Göteboj
Oh. Yeah, I only run deathless. With deaths would change the route, and I never did bother figuring out any route for that. Health management in this game is a bitch and a half and the stun after getting hit is annoying. I also always found 100% with death warps kind of weird since medicine chests respawn when you die. Deathless 100% is just getting all of the chests and friends, but when some chests come back... And why the death after the medicine in the gate room in your 100% route? Why not just take the door, climb up the wall in the ice passage and head to the tree that way? I guess more people discovered this game for speedrunning, but I was first, damnit. I've been intending for years to improve my SDA run because oh god that run sucks and was made before even the switch glitch was found...
Det man inte har i begåvning får man ta ut i energi. "I think I need to get to Snoop Dogg's level of high to be able to research this post." -Samsara Read my fanfic, One Piece: Pure Corruption
Joined: 5/29/2011
Posts: 8
Location: Sweden
Oh, I didn't actually know the medicines respawn (though it does kinda make sense from a gameplay perspective). You're very right about the health management though, it's an extra RNG element for sure. As for that death, I'm not sure. I've only recently started working on 100% a bit, haven't done a lot of work on it yet. But that probably is faster now that you say it. That'll change the health management for that segment a bit. The route is based on the any% one, which is the reason that it was in there. And yeah, your runs were what introduced me to Ufouria speedrunning as well, long ago. It was always one of my favorite NES games since I was a kid though. I was actually meaning to ask you if you had access to the SDA strategy wiki, the article there could use some updates.
It is our company's bold vision to be the first in introducing robot slavery to the 11th century.
KennyMan666
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Joined: 8/24/2005
Posts: 375
Location: Göteboj
I want to say that medicine chests don't respawn if you have that medicine on hand, but any chests with medicines that you have already collected and used will come back. Literally everything about Ufouria on the SDA Knowledge Database was written by me so yeah. I think the only thing really missing is the crawljump, or whatever that should be named - while it's done with a crawl jump, the important part is more the little wall/ledge clip that lets you jump again. Also same, Ufouria and Mega Man 3 were the big NES games of my childhood. How it came to be Ufouria is a petty funny story, really, since the game I wanted to get was Tom & Jerry, but none of the toy stores in town had it in stock so that shopping trip ended with me getting Ufouria instead which was a good thing because it's one of my favourite games of all time.
Det man inte har i begåvning får man ta ut i energi. "I think I need to get to Snoop Dogg's level of high to be able to research this post." -Samsara Read my fanfic, One Piece: Pure Corruption