Editor, Expert player (2480)
Joined: 4/8/2005
Posts: 1573
Location: Gone for a year, just for varietyyyyyyyyy!!
Just in case someone is interested, a new version of Dosbox has been released today: http://dosbox.sourceforge.net/news.php?show_news=1
Player (71)
Joined: 8/24/2004
Posts: 2562
Location: Sweden
Ok. So AVI output is added. Now we just need re-recordings and a couple of other things I suppose. :D
Joined: 12/27/2005
Posts: 45
Location: Beauce, Québec, Canada
Is it just a dream, or we will have soon time attack movie on dos games on this site?
Sorry, my english is really bad...
SXL
Joined: 2/7/2005
Posts: 571
other emulators have avi support since a while (psx, cps2...) but recording (reliably) input is much more complicated than recording output. we might have to wait a long time before seeing additionals systems in the list of this site... unless we find very motivated and skilled coders :)
I never sleep, 'cause sleep is the cousin of death - NAS
Player (71)
Joined: 8/24/2004
Posts: 2562
Location: Sweden
Hehe.. Someone should snatch the source code for VMware or something. It uses save states! :D Then we could really add game videos from "boot up". Harr harr harr.
Editor, Expert player (2080)
Joined: 6/15/2005
Posts: 3284
Another problem is that some games rely on real-time. The Sierra AGI adventure games are an example. There must be some way to sync the time with CPU cycles or else recorded input will not work.
Editor, Player (69)
Joined: 6/22/2005
Posts: 1050
You can also slow down and speed up the emulation in DOSBox, so the only thing it really needs now is save states and the ability to re-record from them.
Current Projects: TAS: Wizards & Warriors III.
Editor, Expert player (2080)
Joined: 6/15/2005
Posts: 3284
Yes, but slowing down (or speeding up) the CPU cycles has no effect on real-time. You can slow it to 10% speed and some event that takes 1 minute to trigger still takes 1 minute to trigger.
dtm
Joined: 3/11/2006
Posts: 43
In addition to the time synch issues, you'll have to provide a standardized environment so that everyone can reproduce exactly. That means someone will need to provide a versioned archive of FreeDOS, which everyone will calibrate against. The filesystem versioning issue can be considered somewhat optional, because many games operate in a read-only fashion. The games can be selected in a way to be compatible with our criteria. Once that's done, you have to consider using Bochs or Qemu because those are the only portable, free emulators. I know that there are some technological xenophobes here, but anyone who makes things Windows-only or Intel-compatible-only stands to sabotage their own efforts. Also there are other, cleaner platforms available such as Apple // (http://kegs.sf.net and http://www.whatisthe2gs.apple2.org.za/the_fairway/index.html and http://home.swbell.net/rubywand/A2FAQs7GAMESITES.html) and Atari 8-bit (http://stella.sf.net). Here are the issues to date of TASing home computers. Let's make a formal list. * time synch against a single reference point * uniform enviornment and virtual machine config * versioning of files * make a list of games that are already compatible with our technological criteria anyway So what are the other issues?
Former player
Joined: 7/4/2005
Posts: 714
Location: Albuqueruqe, New Mexico
Well, if you are hella good at PC games, you can always get FRAPS to record screen play from PC video games. The quality is smoothe as butter and sound is excellent. Me and my buddies recorded Grand Theft Auto: Vice City (when it was the bomb)and we only recorded things like, the Biggest Car Jumps and onslaught killing spree on civilians and cops. Every .mpeg/.avi was working just fine and just like the game ran it. Give it a try http://www.fraps.com/
Change my sig. again, and I will murder your pet fish.
Joined: 8/9/2004
Posts: 139
Location: Washington State
Some of the first TASs were made using the original Doom. How did they do that? wouldn't that require a dos emulator?
Joined: 1/21/2006
Posts: 117
No, they modified the Doom engine to include slowdown and savestates (these came latter, though). id Software releases a lot of old engines under the GNU GPL: Wolfenstein 3D, Doom, Quake, Quake 2, Quake 3
Joined: 1/21/2006
Posts: 117
I've recently had some though about the subject of simply recording a movie file for a PC emulator. Bochs might be a worthy choice, as it's a true PC emulator; slow as it might be to run, it doesn't take any hacks that might jeopardize accuracy and the correct playback of movies. Qemu might also be considered, but it is a dynamic translator (uses a hack that translates emulated binary into native binary; often at the cost of accuracy), so it might not truly be the ideal choice. Now unless you're TASing software you are allowed to distribute legally, transfering disk-images will be illegal. This isn't entirely a show-stopper; you can attempt to make a movie file of the system installation process. For example, provide movie files that cover the installation of Windows 95 and Starcraft (if that's what you were doing). If the movie record/playback were carefully designed, it should work flawless if the same installation media are used. In terms of proprietary software, "same installation media" could very well be the worst step; there's hidden revisions everywhere, it could throw someone off unknowingly. Not to mention the fact that many people might have lost the original medium of a piece of software, and the backup they have is of only the files; for example, if you have a remastered Windows 95 disc, it should be identical enough that the movie file does not break (the possibility of this is uncertain; all sorts of things happen in PCs not normally known; next paragraph). In order to make the movie files play back flawlessly, much more care will have to be taken than console emulators are. For starters, a PC has dozens of different points input can be taken (versus consoles usually having a few buttons). Input can happen from the keyboard, mouse, serial, parallel, modem, ethernet, APIC, APM, USB, Firewire, and much more I did not mention. Normally this would make a very large movie file if recording everything; however the movie format should be made flexible where hardware components can be left out if not enabled in the environment. Still a large file is to be expected for a minimalist PC configuration; using gzip compression could potentially reduce the size drastically for transfering images. Not to mention all the various components might have to be manipulated to the fullest if a program relies on input to generate random data (for example, the Linux and *BSD /dev/random node); if you think manipulating Pokémon Red is difficult with eight buttons, try manipulating a PC step-by-step (equivalent to "frame advance" on the console emulators, but not the same since PC internals are not in sync with video output) with all the various components of varying bandwidths (keyboards come anywhere from 90 to 120+ keys; PS/2 mice have two 7-bit axis; I don't know how much goes through the serial and parallel ports and other such stuff, but it's going to be a lot). While this sounds daunting and everything, I'm sure there are going to be some people willing to make a PC-based TAS if it were possible. (O yeah, last thought: You'll also have to store some CMOS and BIOS settings (eg, date/time) in the movie file. Not sure where this goes in the paragraphs, but it's important nonetheless.) Naw, it's not impossible by a long shot. Actually implementing movie support (and even re-record) should be the easiest part, using the feature will be the most time-consuming part.
Joined: 4/11/2010
Posts: 16
SLOWDOWN IS POSSIBLE. you all know fraps? if you use 20 fps at old games, it's not stuckin, the game will be slowed down. but what's with savestates? that needs a lot of RAM to be used on games like crysis, because a level takes about 200-300 mb of ram. but i would like to have something like snes9x recordings for pc games, realy! if anybody can programm so good, please do this