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Posted: 7/31/2007 11:03 PM
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DK64_MASTER
Joined: 10/24/2005
Posts: 1080
Location: San Jose
So I really have no excuse now, do I? Uhh I can't read Japanese ;)
<agill> banana banana banana terracotta pie! <Shinryuu> ho-la terracotta barba-ra anal-o~
Posted: 8/1/2007 4:08 PM
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Raiscan
Joined: 11/11/2006
Posts: 1235
Location: United Kingdom
Just watched the SDA single segment run. I encourage anyone who hasn't seen it and/or plans to try a TAS of this game to watch it. Things I noticed:
  • 100 Golden Bananas are required for the end, but you can get into different worlds without requiring their respective banana amounts by using lanky kong's 3rd attack to sort of "pull" yourself past the guarding guy into the portal. This allows for some very.. Interesting routes. With tasing and some undescovered glitch it might be possible you don't need many (if any) golden banana's at all.
  • You can turn story line stuff off in the options on the main menu. This means it is likely you don't have to do the reset thing I mentioned in my previous post.
  • Fastest movement for each character will probably have to be tested alot. While in the SDA run donkeys roll/diddy's normal running/Tiny's kicking or whatever are fast, there may be something faster thats much easier to pull off when TASing.
  • 100% would be long and could easily be very boring.
  • With TAS optimisation and no more nifty tricks discovered, the run could be anywhere from 4:15:00 - 4:25:00. New tricks would hopefully make it sub 4 hours.
If I discover anything else I'll edit this post.
<adelikat> I am annoyed at my irc statements ending up in forums & sigs
Posted: 8/1/2007 4:32 PM
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laughing_gas
Former player
Joined: 10/1/2006
Posts: 1102
Location: boot_camp
I've played this game a lot (albeit years ago) and the tas is something I might take up if there are no desynch issues, although planning a whole new route would be a bitch. I vaguely remember something about 100 golden bananas being absolutely required and that among those 100 you must get enough blueprints or else you won't have enough time in hideout helm. Also resets would help in this game because it drops you off at the mouth on DK island, which would save time in backtracking.
Borg Collective wrote:
Negotiation is irrelevant. Self-determination is irrelevant. You will be assimilated.
Posted: 8/1/2007 4:57 PM
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Hina98
Joined: 3/15/2007
Posts: 131
The SDA 100% run uses resets many times, IIRC. It's a very large shortcut. Frankly, I have a concern about the entertainment factor in this run, specifically about a 100% run, but moreover about any run that's more than an hour or two: Donkey Kong 64 combines relatively slow movement speed with large worlds that have a very large number of objectives to accomplish. This in comparison to say, SM64, with fast movement speed, or GE64, with small worlds and comparatively fewer objectives. Also, IMHO, to play GE64 and SM64 with a high degree of precision is very entertaining, whereas the same degree of precision in DK64 would be lost amongst most of the viewers.
Posted: 8/1/2007 5:12 PM
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DK64_MASTER
Joined: 10/24/2005
Posts: 1080
Location: San Jose
How can you do anything BUT a 101% run? IIRC there is no real ending until you get all 101 bananas. Hey, look on the bright side, we can set some Donkey Kong (arcade game) and Jetpack TAS records. I wonder if the up+down glitch works on the game's port of Donkey Kong. It will get quite boring after a while. I don't remember, but you don't have to collect every single character banana, right?
<agill> banana banana banana terracotta pie! <Shinryuu> ho-la terracotta barba-ra anal-o~
Posted: 8/1/2007 5:14 PM
(Edited: 8/1/2007 5:39 PM)
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laughing_gas
Former player
Joined: 10/1/2006
Posts: 1102
Location: boot_camp
DK64_MASTER wrote:
How can you do anything BUT a 101% run? IIRC there is no real ending until you get all 101 bananas. Hey, look on the bright side, we can set some Donkey Kong (arcade game) and Jetpack TAS records. I wonder if the up+down glitch works on the game's port of Donkey Kong. It will get quite boring after a while. I don't remember, but you don't have to collect every single character banana, right?
This game is weird in that route planning would be simpler for the 101%, no need to nitpick which (golden) bananas you need. You don't need every character banana, only enough to get the required number of banana medals as well as to open the boss doors.
Borg Collective wrote:
Negotiation is irrelevant. Self-determination is irrelevant. You will be assimilated.
Posted: 8/1/2007 5:37 PM
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DK64_MASTER
Joined: 10/24/2005
Posts: 1080
Location: San Jose
laughing_gas wrote:
This game is weird in that route planning would be simpler for the 101%, no need to nitpick which bananas you need. You don't need every small banana, only enough to get the required number of banana medals as well as to open the boss doors.
Uh, I think you contradicted yourself, or I misunderstood you. Are you saying that we don't need to collect every character banana, and this would make the game simpler? I would say route planning would be tougher because you would have to know which bananas to skip. Actually, it's probably a matter of perspective.
<agill> banana banana banana terracotta pie! <Shinryuu> ho-la terracotta barba-ra anal-o~
Posted: 8/1/2007 5:48 PM
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Wouter_Jansen
Joined: 10/31/2005
Posts: 329
Location: The Netherlands
eh.. I doubt resets will save that much time since tases go by realtime, obv it saves a bunch for ingame time but for realtime maybe it even loses it should be tested anyhow. also I think DK64 is a great game and deserves an any% AND 100% run. it's easily much more enjoyable than a whole 4,5 hours of chrono trigger.
Posted: 8/1/2007 6:19 PM
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DK64_MASTER
Joined: 10/24/2005
Posts: 1080
Location: San Jose
I'd like to see you TAS it! Wouter goes bananas part 2!
<agill> banana banana banana terracotta pie! <Shinryuu> ho-la terracotta barba-ra anal-o~
Posted: 8/1/2007 8:50 PM
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N._Harmonik
She/Her
Joined: 8/27/2006
Posts: 502
Location: Canada
DK64_MASTER wrote:
How can you do anything BUT a 101% run? IIRC there is no real ending until you get all 101 bananas.
Uh...there are 200 Golden Bananas altogether in this game.
Why, oh, why do I even <i>try</i> to understand my own species?
Posted: 8/1/2007 8:52 PM
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Paused
Joined: 5/9/2005
Posts: 748
DK64_MASTER wrote:
It will get quite boring after a while. I don't remember, but you don't have to collect every single character banana, right?
You need at least 75 for each Kong on every level for the banana medals. Plus enough for each boss course.
Posted: 8/1/2007 9:23 PM
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JSmith
Joined: 8/1/2006
Posts: 428
I did a glitch investigation into this game a while back. The most interesting things I found are: -It's widely known that you can use your B-move off a ledge and jump in midair. However, you can do the same thing with a crouch-slide with more variations. If you crouch-slide off a ledge, you can backflip, pull out your shooter, lob oranges and even play your instrument in midair. You can also take pictures and use any Z+B move. -There are diving glitches in this game. Chunky's and Ditty's Z&B moves are the easiest examples. Neither takes you as deep as the ones in Banjo-Tooie, but they still save a little time. Thanks to #1, they work just as well off a high ledge as off a lower one (or even better if you're moving faster when you hit the water)
Trying 127.0.0.1... telnet: connect to address 127.0.0.1: Connection refused telnet: Unable to connect to remote host
Posted: 8/1/2007 9:47 PM
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DK64_MASTER
Joined: 10/24/2005
Posts: 1080
Location: San Jose
One of the first forums I joined was DK64 Central (and hence, how I got my name), we used to glitch hunt this game up the wazoo. Literally. Back in 2001/2 we discovered the "secret room" in the middle of the overworld (you had to backflip over some stairs as hunky chunky, and fall through the island). We spent ages trying to find the rumored "lost world" which never existed (like the triforce hunt in OOT). Boy those were some good times. My DK64 knowledge has dwindled now, but refreshing some of my knowledge, I'm sure I can be a valid asset to this run. I'm not saying that I'm going to run this game, but I'll definitely help with strategy planning. Another glitch that we can perhaps make use of is in Fungi Forest. Become Hunky Chunky, and backflip behind some small troff n scoff door, and you can walk around anywhere as Hunky Chunky in Fungi Forest. (Discovered by me in 2001). Also another glitch that is well known is using Lanky's arms to enter wrinkly doors earlier. You can pretty much enter the cavern level (I'm tempted to call it Crystal Caverns) with very little bananas. It may lead to a different route for an any% run. I'll try to think of some more, there were definitely a lot of out of bounds glitches that we discovered, but could not exploit.
<agill> banana banana banana terracotta pie! <Shinryuu> ho-la terracotta barba-ra anal-o~
Posted: 8/1/2007 10:24 PM
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JSmith
Joined: 8/1/2006
Posts: 428
How does the "swimming underground" glitch work? I've heard of it but I've never been able to reproduce it.
Trying 127.0.0.1... telnet: connect to address 127.0.0.1: Connection refused telnet: Unable to connect to remote host
Posted: 8/1/2007 10:54 PM
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DK64_MASTER
Joined: 10/24/2005
Posts: 1080
Location: San Jose
The "swimming underground" glitch you are referring to is probably the "secret room" glitch, since it involves swimming under DK Isle. Well, I haven't done it for 4 or 5 years, so I probably won't give the best instructions. I don't have the game with me at the moment, and I'm also at work... But I'll try. You gotta find a Hunky Chunky barrel in the overworld. Near it, there should be some grass stairs. Become HC, face backwards (?) and do a backflip while flush against the step. You should fall through, end up in water. If you swim around for a bit, you'll end up in the room that contains the intro cutscenes, which is completely empty.
<agill> banana banana banana terracotta pie! <Shinryuu> ho-la terracotta barba-ra anal-o~
Posted: 8/2/2007 2:32 AM
(Edited: 8/2/2007 2:30 PM)
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laughing_gas
Former player
Joined: 10/1/2006
Posts: 1102
Location: boot_camp
Here's an unoptimized test up to the first visit with Cranky, so far no desynchs. I've noticed that this game is very picky with graphics plugins, only jabo 1.5.2 was able to work. The others either failed to render graphics at all or during movie playback. Also I noticed in the (J) version you can't skip whole blocks of text by pressing B, instead you can only fast forward through by holding A. edit: I think there is a possible way to beat the game with 12 golden bananas, maybe even less, I'll have to do some more checking. If it works, a sub-2 hour run will be possible (you still have to get abilities like the super stomp as well as free the other 4 kongs. Rareware and Nintendo coins is required as well) edit2: Does anyone have a PJ64 or mupen save file that has hideout helm unlocked (by unlocked I mean the mouth of the big K.Rool statue is opened), but with less than 100 golden bananas?
Borg Collective wrote:
Negotiation is irrelevant. Self-determination is irrelevant. You will be assimilated.
Posted: 8/2/2007 1:32 PM
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Sami
Former player
Joined: 8/20/2005
Posts: 643
Location: Mikkeli,Finland
Damn this game looks aful in emulator... DK sprite goies really weird when you do rolling. Walking, there is little lag spike :o I really want see TAS of this...maybe those bugs can be fixed...
Current Projects: ???
Posted: 8/2/2007 3:55 PM
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Comicalflop
Editor, Experienced player (730)
Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
Speedy TAS of 2009
Jabo's 1.6 worked far, far better for me than the other plugins.
☣ Homepage ☣ Retired
Posted: 8/2/2007 4:07 PM
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okaygo
Joined: 6/22/2007
Posts: 181
Location: Eastern Michigan University
I am pretty sure I've stumbled onto some information regarding games in my Mupen code, stay with me... No promises but I might be able to get the game to run.
Posted: 8/2/2007 4:27 PM
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YautjaElder
Joined: 3/29/2006
Posts: 273
Location: Sweden
Awesome, I'd love to see a TAS of this game.
Posted: 8/3/2007 1:51 AM
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mike89
Active player (301)
Joined: 8/8/2005
Posts: 296
Location: NSW, Australia
laughing_gas, I'm pretty sure I know what you're thinking. Hideout Helm doesn't have a "DK" door like the other levels, so Lanky can't glitch his way into it. If there's something else by all means let me know. :o
Posted: 8/3/2007 1:54 AM
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laughing_gas
Former player
Joined: 10/1/2006
Posts: 1102
Location: boot_camp
mike89 wrote:
laughing_gas, I'm pretty sure I know what you're thinking. Hideout Helm doesn't have a "DK" door like the other levels, so Lanky can't glitch his way into it.
We've got bigger problems than that. From what I've tested in PJ64 the lanky glitch doesn't work at all, the graphics plugin doesn't draw the door far enough for lanky to reach into. Maybe it's different in mupen but I'm not gonna play through 2 hours of the (J) version to find out.
Borg Collective wrote:
Negotiation is irrelevant. Self-determination is irrelevant. You will be assimilated.
Posted: 8/3/2007 4:18 PM
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okaygo
Joined: 6/22/2007
Posts: 181
Location: Eastern Michigan University
Some more updates on DK64 support: I have some good buddies who hack RARE games as passionate as this site makes TAS, I know what the problem is, and I will be asking around using my connections to find the solution. The problem is the r4300 boot code, DK64 isn't getting booted correctly, and although it is a minor bug it might be hard to find the exact root of the problem. I will be getting together with some people to see if they can not help me.
Posted: 1/1/2008 8:43 PM
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N._Harmonik
She/Her
Joined: 8/27/2006
Posts: 502
Location: Canada
When the game works properly, we'll have to think up strategy for the minimalist run. It'd be a lot like Super Mario 64: which bananas are the fastest to acquire and are there any glitches that skip portions of the game? I've heard tell of one that allows Chunky to access the inside of Fairy Island, an area exclusive to Tiny... not that I see any use in that.
Why, oh, why do I even <i>try</i> to understand my own species?
Posted: 1/2/2008 12:19 AM
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MezzoDragon
He/Him
Joined: 5/27/2007
Posts: 120
This is a great game for TAS, since its far too difficult to take those idiotic Banana Fairy's pictures. They move around too much and suddenly once you seem to get them in the cross hairs.
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