Topic by KaitouKid

Posted: 3/23/2006 6:14 PM
(Edited: 3/23/2006 6:57 PM)

Post subject: Wario Land (SML3)

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KaitouKid

Former player

Joined: 6/6/2005
Posts: 384

Yeah, I'm bored again. And after the insanity of Alien Hominid, I decided I'd think about tackling a game I actually knew fairly well. I owned the cart when I was younger, and I still remember enough to get me by. But I need to play through a few times and make sure I know treasure locations before I get started. First thing's first, if anyone has any glitches or anything, let it be known now, BEFORE I start the TAS. I don't want this to turn out like SML2 did - finding glitches when I was almost done. Next, I'll be running some tests for myself to see what's fastest, but if anyone has input on which hats would work best for which stages, feel free to throw your opinions out there. I'm not sure how long I'll work on the run a day - Wario Land 1 has this weird effect on my eyes. Makes me feel sick if I play too long. I dunno if it's because of the trail Wario leaves behind as he dashes or what. Hopefully, it won't be an issue when slowed down to the speeds I plan on running the game at. In any case, I'll be working off and on with the game for awhile. I do have a question, though - should I just go for a straight-up ass-hauling through the game, or should I get all the treasures? Edit: Just screwing around with the game, I found something out - if you hit the dash button again at the right time after starting a dash that puts you into the air (like, you dash off a ledge or something) you can continue the dash infinitely by dashing again right before the first one finishes. http://rapidshare.de/files/16241159/Wario1.vbm.html Here, check it out. This isn't a WIP by any means. Just me seeing how the game felt at 5% speed. As you can see, I didn't realize the trick until about halfway into the stage. And it looks pretty hax with me dashing infinitely in the air. I haven't picked up the Bull Wario helmet to see if it's any different with that, but I don't see why it would be. I dunno how useful this'll be in a real TAS, but the way I see it, it can't HURT. Wario moves like a turd in glue, and his jumps are more vertical than horizontal. So this definitely helps skip all the jumping in certain stages. What I REALLY want to try now is to see if I can put this to any good use in the lava/thwomp stage in world 1. You know the one - Wario's stuck riding a thwomp across a lava sea, then he has to run through tight corridors, breaking blocks so as not to get skewered from behind. I dunno how useful the air dash will be, but...

Posted: 3/23/2006 6:19 PM

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Nach

Emulator Coder

Joined: 3/9/2004
Posts: 4588
Location: In his lab studying psychology to find new ways to torture TASers and forumers

I think most interesting run through this game would be a no coin no treasure run. I don't recall, but I think you might not have the first double your money menu if you beat the level with no coins. Edit: This also looks interesting: http://kontek.net/davidwonn/minus_worlds.doc Not sure if it can be used to speed up a run or not.

Warning: Opinions expressed by Nach or others in this post do not necessarily reflect the views, opinions, or position of Nach himself on the matter(s) being discussed therein.

Posted: 3/23/2006 7:50 PM

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Bag_of_Magic_Food

He/Him

Player (206)

Joined: 5/29/2004
Posts: 5712

For some reason I thought there had been more discussion about this game, but it must have all been on IRC, because this is the only real post I found:

Nach wrote:

Don't forget you can fly unlimitedly by timing the jet's ons and offs properly. Also don't forget to use the debug mode in the game.

And I think I heard something about constantly jumping while holding Up...

put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude

Posted: 3/23/2006 7:56 PM

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Nach

Emulator Coder

Joined: 3/9/2004
Posts: 4588
Location: In his lab studying psychology to find new ways to torture TASers and forumers

If you hold up before jumping you jump higher. And I just checked, after beating a boss coins start flying at you, and they're really hard to avoid. So a no coin run would look cool, and be totally unexpected.

Warning: Opinions expressed by Nach or others in this post do not necessarily reflect the views, opinions, or position of Nach himself on the matter(s) being discussed therein.

Posted: 3/23/2006 8:03 PM

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Bag_of_Magic_Food

He/Him

Player (206)

Joined: 5/29/2004
Posts: 5712

Maybe it was dash-jumping... I could fiddle with it later today.

put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude

Posted: 3/23/2006 8:06 PM

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KaitouKid

Former player

Joined: 6/6/2005
Posts: 384

Best way to do it would be to load up on boss-spewed coins. That way I wouldn't have to stop and grab them in regular levels. I'll try to end up with no coins if I do it that way, but no promises. I knew about the jet thing. Makes me wonder if infinite air dashing or infinite jet flight is faster. I'd assume the get is, but it's less useful in every other aspect, almost. c.c

Posted: 3/23/2006 9:46 PM

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Spoony_Bard

Former player

Joined: 8/17/2004
Posts: 377

A pure speed (and perhaps no coin) run, and a 100% run (getting the best ending, which would take some creative coin collection!) would be great. Wario Land was the very first gameboy game I ever bought and it's still one of my favorites.

Posted: 4/2/2006 12:33 AM

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Kitsune

Joined: 4/29/2005
Posts: 1212

I was waiting for this topic to get started, hehe. This is one of my favorite games from my childhood. Video Games were all I had to give me enjoyment. I am looking forward to the run/s for this game.

Posted: 4/3/2006 3:37 AM

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KaitouKid

Former player

Joined: 6/6/2005
Posts: 384

http://rapidshare.de/files/17076855/WarioLandv1.vbm.html Well, it's begun. Finally. Took me long enough. 1-1 beaten, time of 1:16. The first video is 1:11, but it ends as soon as I hit Up at the end of the stage. This one includes the running around the bonus stage poles at the end, so I definitely picked up some time. Not a lot of rerecords yet, since basically the only thing I had need to rerecord for was keeping the air dash going.

Posted: 4/3/2006 5:30 AM

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spockybiemmichab

Joined: 3/17/2006
Posts: 243
Location: Back to good old Germany

That looked quite good. So this will be an any-%-run? I definitely think this would be more interesting. I also think that jet-dashing is much more better than normal dashing. Furthermore Jet-Wario's normal running speed is a lot higher so the running around the bonus stage poles will be shorter. Hope to see some more stuff :)

Posted: 4/3/2006 6:39 AM

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KDR_11k

Joined: 1/23/2006
Posts: 352
Location: Germany

Problem with jet dashing is that you need two hits to break blocks so you'd have to switch to bull Wario for those sequences (if you're bouncing off the blocks you waste a few additional seconds per block, I doubt the running speed would make up for that) and the powerups for switching back are pretty rare.

Posted: 4/3/2006 11:23 AM

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spockybiemmichab

Joined: 3/17/2006
Posts: 243
Location: Back to good old Germany

Hmm...that's right. Now I wonder how many times do you really have to destroy these blocks? Careful planning seems to be essential...(as it is always)

Posted: 4/3/2006 12:23 PM

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Nach

Emulator Coder

Joined: 3/9/2004
Posts: 4588
Location: In his lab studying psychology to find new ways to torture TASers and forumers

KaitouKid wrote:

Best way to do it would be to load up on boss-spewed coins. That way I wouldn't have to stop and grab them in regular levels. I'll try to end up with no coins if I do it that way, but no promises.

Coins aren't saved from level to level.

Warning: Opinions expressed by Nach or others in this post do not necessarily reflect the views, opinions, or position of Nach himself on the matter(s) being discussed therein.

Posted: 4/3/2006 1:43 PM

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spockybiemmichab

Joined: 3/17/2006
Posts: 243
Location: Back to good old Germany

I just "discovered" something. If you hold up while jumping you are not only jumping higher you are also getting faster. So I tried the first level proceeding this method and got an end time of 355. KatouKid's end time was 357, so 2 WarioLand-seconds faster. But I only played at 37% speed and I think that it can be improved. The main reason I'm posting this: It looks much more interesting instead of air-dashing all the time. Maybe I'll find some time after my lectures this evening...

Posted: 4/3/2006 3:58 PM

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KDR_11k

Joined: 1/23/2006
Posts: 352
Location: Germany

I suppose the best way to deal with the boss coins is just to throw them away when you pick them up. If picking up and throwing away coins counts as 0 coins, that is, since it'd be far too easy just to throw away any coins you run into...

Posted: 4/3/2006 4:56 PM

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spockybiemmichab

Joined: 3/17/2006
Posts: 243
Location: Back to good old Germany

I just made a movie of the first level using "my" method and this is the result. It's far from perfect and played in 25% speed. Maybe this helps you doing your run...

Posted: 4/3/2006 5:18 PM

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KaitouKid

Former player

Joined: 6/6/2005
Posts: 384

Whatever version of VBA you used, it ain't compatible with mine, so I can't watch the movie.

Posted: 4/3/2006 5:25 PM

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spockybiemmichab

Joined: 3/17/2006
Posts: 243
Location: Back to good old Germany

1.7.2 rerecording v17 Did you check "Start from snapshot" ? I just downloaded it and it played fine for me (again)...

Posted: 4/3/2006 6:28 PM

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Boco

Former player

Joined: 3/30/2004
Posts: 1354
Location: Heather's imagination

It plays for me, too, and I had the same idea, but when I ran it by Kaitou he said that you lose a bit of time on each jump when you land so constant dashing is faster. (I guess that means horizontal velocity is the same in a dash and an UP+jump?)

someone is out there who will like you. take off your mask so they can find you faster. I support the new Nekketsu Kouha Kunio-kun.

Posted: 4/3/2006 7:04 PM

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KaitouKid

Former player

Joined: 6/6/2005
Posts: 384

Plus there's aesthetics to take into account. I have actually tried jumping constantly. And while it might TECHNICALLY be faster, seeing Wario just air dash like a retard across the top of the entire stage looks more interesting. At least to me, anyway. I'd sacrifice a few seconds to make the thing more pleasing to the eye, ya know? Ugh... can't believe I actually started. I need to run some tests in 1-2. See where I can get bull/jet hats (is the first jet hat in 1-3? >< My brain ain't workin') the fastest. See, I'm troubled on this one. Bull Hat: Longer air dashes, faster dashing in general, 1-hit block breaking, jumping mid-dash. Trouble is, you can't break the dash then resume dashing lower in the air. You HAVE to keep that thing going. Jet Hat: Probably faster for uninterrupted travel. BUT, you can't leap out of flight. Meaning if you start flying, you have to land and jump eventually, unless you stay so far above the screen that it doesn't matter. But again, that's boring to watch. Plus it takes two hits to break blocks. I think the fastest thing to do in most cases is to stick with Bull Wario. He's faster on the ground and more versatile. Of course, I'd probably pick up Jet for any underwater crap I have to do (HATE UNDERWATER STAGES)...

Posted: 4/3/2006 7:40 PM

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