I was playing Wario Land earlier today and I found a glitch I'm not sure is documented elsewhere.
When there is an animation that is supposed to lock everything (e.g. the opening of the exit door), if you pause and unpause the game, you get a "free frame" in which you are allowed to move. You can approach the exit while the door is still opening in this way, but I don't know if the whole pause+unpause thing would be faster than just waiting.
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That's intersting although the main problem is that there isn't a button other than START to unpause the game so it would be like:
Frame no : Input : Condition
001 : START: Unpaused (possibly it responds on the next frame)
002 : None* : Paused
003 : START + RIGHT: Paused
004 : Right :Unpaused Wario gets to move for 1 frame.
The pattern goes on again and Wario can only move around every 4th frame.
Secondly you can get bumped by the skull when it's rising so it's not going to be an useful trick.
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nineko wrote:
GreenaLink wrote:
Secondly you can get bumped by the skull when it's rising so it's not going to be an useful trick.
Yeah I noticed that too, but I thought to tell you this anyway, in case you could get something useful from it. Oh well, at least we tried :)
Don't feel bad though it seem like a really cool idea to save time too bad about the lack of another input to unpause the game. Although performing an tackle as Jet Wario has a different hit box that you can go underneath objects (not counting crouching areas) like spikes however you need at least 1 frame in a standing pose/on the ground and press UP to enter the door way, it might work from a distance but it will be constant pausing that it's quite difficult to find the perfect distance.
Edit:
So far I completed course 4 and I've save over 150 frames compare to Blublu's run. On Course 5 before the boss my strat saved just under 70 frames. But I'm sure Blublu's run on the boss fight saved at least 1 frame because he used the turbo attack before the "freeze" moment.
Edit 2:
After a boss gets defeated you get loads of coins the outcome varies and can be manipulated along the way. My total coins could be 213 or 222. If I can manipulate every coin to be big coins (that worths 10) I could get 250 which can skip a gamble in the coin bonus game.
So far I got up to 248 coins, multiply that by 4 and you get 992 coins (7 short) but that's still really good I could get the remaining 7 from the last course because the input time after the last boss isn't affected.
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New well actually it's an improved WIP which saves over 7000 frames from my old run:
Notable changes:
Used Blublu's strats in Course 1a, 2 (before hat) and 4 (after the 1st set of blocks).
Speed through Course 4 with 0 coins as opposed to 85 (640 from gamble).
Manipulated loads of coins after the boss to get a whooping 248. This doesn't reach the 999 target but it does skip a gamble in the mini-game.
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/737169955/WariolandGreenalink.vbm
For those who also saw my 2nd WIP during my "re-do" announcement I've saved over 16 frames on Course 3 second visit.
Anyone is welcome to encode this (because my ones are rubbish).
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Thank you very much, the next WIP will be released after Sherbet Land is completed. I've found out that it's possible to defeat the penguin as Tiny Wario by chucking the big coins to knock his spikey helmet off. It might save frames but it will require 20 coins and nearly 20 extra frames in the Coin bonus game (since that level contains an giant 100 coin).
Edit: Hang on I can pickup a Big coin that I just thrown (to knock off the spikey helmet) so I am going to that method then.
Edit 2: Progress of Sherbet Land (as of 19.9.08) 3 out of 8 exits.
I've found out that it's possible to defeat the penguin as Tiny Wario by chucking the big coins to knock his spikey helmet off.
I just found out that you can use the coins also against the knight in level 40, just in case you're interested.
Also, I found a bug with the bull hat that can probably be useful in some circumstances, but I don't think you're even going to use the bull hat at all so this is pretty much an useless discovery. Basically, when you do the butt drop, the screen shakes for a few seconds, and when it stops shaking, you revert to the standing position for one frame whatever thing you were doing before (yes, including climbing a ladder, ducking, etc). This means that you can (for example) do a butt drop, jump, wait for the standing frame, jump again, to reach higher places. You can also use the shoulder attack mid-air. Another application is when you have to go down from a ladder that begins at the floor: you can butt drop on the top of it, then go down a few steps while the screen is shaking, then you will be standing in the middle of the ladder, you can use the shoulder attack and Wario will fall to the ground (while keeping the chance to use the ladder if you press up or down).
Sorry if this was already know, I hope I could describe it in a good way. Also I'm not sure that the standing position lasts for one frame or more, as I found this while playing in real time.
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nineko wrote:
GreenaLink wrote:
I've found out that it's possible to defeat the penguin as Tiny Wario by chucking the big coins to knock his spikey helmet off.
I just found out that you can use the coins also against the knight in level 40, just in case you're interested.
Also, I found a bug with the bull hat that can probably be useful in some circumstances, but I don't think you're even going to use the bull hat at all so this is pretty much an useless discovery. Basically, when you do the butt drop, the screen shakes for a few seconds, and when it stops shaking, you revert to the standing position for one frame whatever thing you were doing before (yes, including climbing a ladder, ducking, etc). This means that you can (for example) do a butt drop, jump, wait for the standing frame, jump again, to reach higher places. You can also use the shoulder attack mid-air. Another application is when you have to go down from a ladder that begins at the floor: you can butt drop on the top of it, then go down a few steps while the screen is shaking, then you will be standing in the middle of the ladder, you can use the shoulder attack and Wario will fall to the ground (while keeping the chance to use the ladder if you press up or down).
Sorry if this was already know, I hope I could describe it in a good way. Also I'm not sure that the standing position lasts for one frame or more, as I found this while playing in real time.
I've noticed the 1 free frame thingy during the shake but you did find some good uses, the best use is both higher jumping and going down ladders quickly sadly the speed loss compare to Jet Dashing abuse is notable, it there was the Bull Wario only TAS (like the Super Mario World Small only TAS) it would be interseting to watch.
Alright, maybe I have something useful this time: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSrxE8dzwko
You can get the treasure in that level without getting the key. Also you can manipulate the chest's lid's position by moving the enemy around.
(that's not me btw, I just found this video on Youtube)
edit: also this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59RJ-NoH6Vk
The problem is that you can't enter that door, I tried that myself and it doesn't work. Maybe the graphics and the objects are misaligned, so there probably is an accessible door somewhere, just invisible.
If you're talking about the door on the left, that's the way backwards through the level. I was trying to get to where the rightmost car ought to be on my console and it was annoying because I had to go get another Jet Hat each try. Anyway, this still may be faster than the normal route, just if you get it to start that segment properly like the video did.
And yes, the graphics and objects are misaligned by a full screen's width (pay attention to the blocks he broke in the video and when he actually sees them a screen further left)
If you're talking about the door on the left, that's the way backwards through the level.
No, I'm talking about the door on the right. The problem is that one has to calculate the correct position to enter it, because as you said too,
eternaljwh wrote:
the graphics and objects are misaligned by a full screen's width
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Even if Wario manages to enter a door "Out of Bounds" he could possibly end up in a Minus world (swapped objects in the same level), fingers cross that it's as useful as the shortcut on the tree level.
Don't forget there is an SDA run on this now, it's any% sub 45 minutes long.
http://speeddemosarchive.com/WarioLand.html
The tactics used in the run is the main reason why I chosed to do an 100% > Any% first.
EDIT: The trick where you use the tree trick to move the Spearman spot that ends up being the treasure lid seems cool. The only way to get near to me by the entrance is a bounce that should take him to the left of the room, then I leave and re-enter to see if I can hit the lid, get the treasure and leave the room with minimum frames as possible.
I wasn't aware of that, I'm not a big fan of SDA. I'll download it, I guess.
edit:
And this, my friend, is why http downloads are better than torrents:
I can't remember the last time I had 1/10th of that speed with a torrent.
And this, my friend, is why http downloads are better than torrents:
I can't remember the last time I had 1/10th of that speed with a torrent.
It depends on the bandwidth of the site you're downloading from and the upload bandwidth of the seeds and peers, respectively; archive.org has massive bandwidth, while MediaFire and QShare are a bit slower, and well-seeded torrents are faster than poorly-seeded ones.
I guess a good rule of thumb is that for all but the largest of legitimate files (like open-source programs and SDA runs), HTTP downloads are faster, but for warez, pirated media, and free operating system images, you may do better with torrents.
Back on topic, the SDA run was rather interesting, and also made me realise that you can't keep the Flying Hat during all the game if you aim for 100% completion.
For example, you'll need either the Bull Hat or the Fire Hat to get the treasure in course 28; you'll need the Bull Hat to get the treasure in course 39. And there's probably more than these, I just gave it a quick look.
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nineko wrote:
Back on topic, the SDA run was rather interesting, and also made me realise that you can't keep the Flying Hat during all the game if you aim for 100% completion.
For example, you'll need either the Bull Hat or the Fire Hat to get the treasure in course 28; you'll need the Bull Hat to get the treasure in course 39. And there's probably more than these, I just gave it a quick look.
http://www.gamefaqs.com/portable/gameboy/file/563296/44640
The tresaure list.
The only notable power up change will be course 39. I have to be Bull Wario in the "Spear trap" room and then get the key, I'm not sure if a mini-detour from the pre-treasure room and get the Dragon hat to see if it is faster or not. After I get the treasure of Course 39 and clear it. I go back to Parsley Woods' Course 31 for 2 reasons:
Nearest level to get the Jet Hat (Syrup's Castle Course 2 takes too long).
A second visit after removing the entire lake is required to get a treasure on that course as well.
Now that's a very good plan, nice work. Apparently all of my posts in this thread have been useless so far, I'm trying to help but you know much more than me about this game.
Oh well, I'm still the official WIP encoder :3
Taking about that, any new WIP coming soon?
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nineko wrote:
Now that's a very good plan, nice work. Apparently all of my posts in this thread have been useless so far, I'm trying to help but you know much more than me about this game.
Oh well, I'm still the official WIP encoder :3
Taking about that, any new WIP coming soon?
Don't let yourself down... it may be "I knew this" material but for the others it might trivial and useful.
I haven't done much yet (Darkrai, Shaymin glitch and Megaman 9 slowed me down).
I've done 3 out of 8 exits still and now I'm on the bottom right of Sherbet Land, just hitting the switch to get the Key the only problem is the coin plan. Since the level is scattered with coins but not a lot if you speed through the level. In other words I need to optimise my coins so I can throw big ones to make the count 000 again (skips the small delay before the coin countdown).
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Still no progress news but:
I remember when messing around that during the moment you get a treasure from the chest "While holding a Big Coin" it disappears after Wario places his new treasure in the treasure collection screen making it useful for the coin count delay thingy.
Also in my TAS I'll probably skip the penguin fight (to follow my goals) but I might do a test with a new game file and abuse the debug's 999 coin code so I don't have to replay the levels and see if skipping it makes a difference.
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So I am playing it normally and stuff like the Tree Glitch and the treasure lid spawn spot. I realised that:
I may need to stand still for a few seconds for the camera to come in (and letting me to do the trick). It might not be easy manipulating the spot.
I'm not the best when describing this but when Wario is off the screen. If he then comes in again from the left you won't be able to achieve the shortcut as the camera will go to the left and not to the right (which you want it to do). Sadly I can't get on top of the Spearman (that ends up like a treasure lid when entering it properly) without seeing myself coming in from the left of the screen.
So the plan is:
To jump and dash then land on the Tree treasure room on the earliest frame when Wario lands and is in front of the doorway. Next wait and press up the earliest possible frame when the game thinks you were in that treasure room (so you'll be behind the Treasure door then press up again to re-enter and collect the treasure).
Nineko because you are a useful player that gave me some useful hints for me to think off (like the Tree Glitch and that 2nd train level glitch too). Can you try out and experiment the Stove Cave's Boss manipulation and stuff please?
Edit 1: On the 2nd Train level. I've managed to skip the first "Waiting area" of the level now.
I'll try it again later on and take some notes, etc.
Go left and when you see yourself again coming from the right stop Jet Dashing and go down 1 screen. Then do 3 rough full length Jet Dashes and you'll decend to the doorway skipping the first Waiting area.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=iQOfMbnmI9E (here's the video)
Nineko because you are a useful player that gave me some useful hints for me to think off (like the Tree Glitch and that 2nd train level glitch too). Can you try out and experiment the Stove Cave's Boss manipulation and stuff please?
Sure I can try, but I'm not very good at luck manipulation. Do you happen to have a savestate of that level? I don't really feel like playing all the levels up to that one.
Still, I would be glad to be of some assistance :)
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Thanks Nineko :)
Good news:
It's possible to skip both Autoscrolling screens in Course 35 now!
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=-AEqpXcPA2Q
I need to do some research with the Left direction and other things and see if it can be done even quicker (and see if it's possible to end up on the final screen without using any other doors).
I can't remember the last time I had 1/10th of that speed with a torrent.
