Topic by Truncated

Posted: 10/20/2004 4:55 AM

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Truncated

Editor, Reviewer, Experienced player (969)

Joined: 4/17/2004
Posts: 3107
Location: Sweden

Just watched the finished levels so far, it's amazing. Good luck with the real life stuff, hope it clears up.

Posted: 12/4/2004 10:03 PM

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I plan to begin work on this video again in the near future. The past week, instead of studying for finals, I spent a good deal of time on the first act of the first zone -- that is, Green Hill Zone Act 1. Hero Chaos Chao asked me once if 24 seconds was possible on that map, and I declared it impossible. My public video is already perfect, right? Well, I had to see for myself. I have performed a frame by frame analysis of every instance of jumping and rolling throughout the entire level. My original time for the level was 00:37:53, my current best time is 00:37:09. The clock changes to 25 seconds on 00:37:04 (on the file I'm working on now. I believe it changes 1 frame earlier on my public video, which is a mystery to me.) I've since found a way to shave 2 more frames off the first half of the map, and to maintain the 2 frame lead against my best time all the way until I enter the pipes after the loop. For some reason, the "faster" path enters the pipes ahead, but exits them behind. Because of this odd inconsistency, the only thing that remains for me to do on GH1 is try all the different double jumps on the loop within a window of 5 or so frames to see if one of them inexplicably results in me exiting the pipes ahead of my current best. Anyways, the reason I'm telling you all this is that I'm sick and tired of this level, but don't want to give up on 24 seconds just yet. Critiquing and finding mistakes in your own work is always hard. Does anyone want to work together with me on this level, and possibly the whole video, to help me find new strategies and pinpoint the most minor errors?

Posted: 12/6/2004 5:53 AM

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Truncated

Editor, Reviewer, Experienced player (969)

Joined: 4/17/2004
Posts: 3107
Location: Sweden

I would like to help, but I doubt that I can. You obviously know the sonic engine a lot better than I. If you email me the new GHZ1 run I can take a look at it, but most probably I'll just be wasting your time pointing out things you've already though of. But, since you're desperate... I'm at ( trunkerad at gmail dot com ).

Posted: 12/8/2004 12:34 AM

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xebra

Joined: 5/3/2004
Posts: 1203

K. My mobo died, I got a new one shipping out today. As soon as it's here I'll get my comp running again and send you the run.

Posted: 12/20/2004 7:06 AM

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Truncated

Editor, Reviewer, Experienced player (969)

Joined: 4/17/2004
Posts: 3107
Location: Sweden

Changed your mind? Or forgot about it?

Posted: 12/30/2004 6:47 AM

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xou

Joined: 4/26/2004
Posts: 118
Location: france

Hope xebra received a new mobo for X-mas ! Im really curious to see the Labyrinth Zone 's boss defeated, that was the one I hated when i was a child :] Not that I didn't deafeat him... but so i could see him defeated over and over again !

hello world !

Posted: 12/30/2004 7:13 AM

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AdmiralJonB

Joined: 6/20/2004
Posts: 292
Location: United Kingdom

I hated the Labrynth Boss, I can't defeat him any more :( Mind you, I was trying a couple of time in a few minutes then had to stop and couldn't bother to get back to it again.

Posted: 1/3/2005 5:48 AM

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xebra

Joined: 5/3/2004
Posts: 1203

Sorry, comp still dead, will fix soon.

Posted: 1/20/2005 11:00 PM

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xebra

Joined: 5/3/2004
Posts: 1203

I finally fixed my comp! A month or two late I know ... Anyways, I've uploaded a zip file with two GHZ1 runs: http://www.geocities.com/xebranick/GHZ1WIP.zip . (You may need to copy the link to a new window.) Version 1 of the run is my fastest completion of GHZ1 so far, it's 4 (or 5) frames away from 0:00:24 (depending on whether the clock increments on the frame you finish the level.) Version 2 of the run is two frames faster upon entering the pipes (after the loop) due to a single frame being pared from two different maneuvers earlier in the level. Mystery of mysteries, this run is slower upon exiting the pipes. I think the goal of any collaborators (if anyone even wants to work on this movie with me =/ ) should be to figure out what in the heck is going on inside the pipes, and whether there are any more time saving maneuvers to be had. P.S. Lezard, where are you?

Posted: 1/21/2005 5:45 PM

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Truncated

Editor, Reviewer, Experienced player (969)

Joined: 4/17/2004
Posts: 3107
Location: Sweden

So, I've watched trough both videos meticulously. Can't say I have any good news, really... In vid 1 you jump trough the box 8 frames earlier than in vid 2. Any particular reason for this? I see no immediate benefit. Jump on bridge is also one frame ahead in vid 2, as is starting the roll and jumping afterwards. The two latter changes seems to gain you a full frame. Jumping over the stone and up the ledge later in vid 2 gains almost one frame in air. (Why?) When they land about one half frame remains. Jumping later over the spring gives about one more half. Delaying the next jump also seems to give a half frame, but it is lost on the bounce. So, the important part, the pipes. Vid 2 enters 2 frames earlier, but also at a one pixel offset (ahead). This pixel appears and disappears randomly during the next few frames. At 30:11/30:09 something happens, vid 1 sonic goes downward faster than vid 2 sonic and is 2 pixels below. This means he touches the ground below, while vid2 doesn't. After this vid1 starts gaining pixels steadily. (It could be a coincidence of course.) Between the two backwards S-es one frame has been catched up, by the middle of the second they are equal. When they exit vid1 is ahead with about 2 pixels. In the air after the jump, vid 1 increases the lead a lot (4 frames) for some reason, but it's difficult to see why or how (obstructed by the trees). Probably vid 1 just benefits from the higher speed from the pipes during the long jump. Vid 2 is forced to roll one extra time. Looking back at your older video (acts 1-10), it has the same behaviour as vid 1 in and when exiting the pipes. Whatever you did there, do it again. I have no idea what to make of all this. It could be that vid 1 enters the pipes at a just barely higher speed and the pipes multiply the effect. Or maybe that pesky extra pixel means a slightly different path, hitting the ground giving you more speed (like in the loops). And yeah, like I expected I'm not a lot of help.

Posted: 1/24/2005 7:06 AM

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xebra

Joined: 5/3/2004
Posts: 1203

In vid 1 you jump trough the box 8 frames earlier than in vid 2. Any particular reason for this? I see no immediate benefit.

No reason.

Jumping over the stone and up the ledge later in vid 2 gains almost one frame in air. (Why?)

I believe it is because the ground is not level, and jumping from different spots launches you at different speeds.

Looking back at your older video (acts 1-10), it has the same behaviour as vid 1 in and when exiting the pipes. Whatever you did there, do it again.

I never bothered to optimize v2 after exiting the pipes because I couldn't find a path to exit the S-pipes appropriately. I really appreciate your detailed analysis, and you've confirmed my fears that there's probably not much to be done. One last thing I mean to try is approaching the S-pipes only one frame ahead. Perhaps it will result in more bizarre behavior that will catapult me ahead of even v1! If that doesn't work ... well, I'll give up. 4-5 frames from 24 seconds is a huge improvement over my acts 1-10 video, at least. I should probably go through the other acts and optimize them in a similar manner, but just the thought makes me shudder.

Posted: 1/24/2005 11:36 AM

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Truncated

Editor, Reviewer, Experienced player (969)

Joined: 4/17/2004
Posts: 3107
Location: Sweden

>I never bothered to optimize v2 after exiting the pipes because I couldn't find a path to exit the S-pipes appropriately. Hm, I meant: the old video gets the same speed boost as vid 1 at the S-pipes. If you can find whatever you did the differently in that video and vid 1 from vid 2, problem solved. >One last thing I mean to try is approaching the S-pipes only one frame ahead. Perhaps it will result in more bizarre behavior that will catapult me ahead of even v1! I was thinking along similar lines. Maybe hexedit one (or whatever number) "hold forward" frame into "hold no buttons" to lose the extra pixel and see if that changes anything. Then you should enter the S-pipes under truly identical circumstances. If that doesn't help, give up. Don't spend too much time on this, getting the rest of the levels done is probably what everyone wants to see happen. It's sufficiently jaw-dropping as is, really.

Posted: 2/2/2005 6:29 AM
(Edited: 2/2/2005 7:20 AM)

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xebra

Joined: 5/3/2004
Posts: 1203

Thanks greatly for your help and analysis, Truncated. I just got 0"24 with a frame to spare. This probably doesn't mean I will finish the whole video any time soon, but the first level will be awesome when I finish the whole run some time in 2012! Link to the new first level: http://www.geocities.com/xebranick/Sonic1Act1byxebra.zip

Posted: 2/2/2005 7:16 AM

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Truncated

Editor, Reviewer, Experienced player (969)

Joined: 4/17/2004
Posts: 3107
Location: Sweden

Wohoo! :D Glad to hear that it worked out. What did you do to fix it? Is there anywhere I can see this achievement? It's not on your webpage. Also, I demand that you continue making this video. Quite obviously noone else has the knowledge of this game you have.

Posted: 2/2/2005 10:45 AM

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Truncated

Editor, Reviewer, Experienced player (969)

Joined: 4/17/2004
Posts: 3107
Location: Sweden

Just watched the video, it's great. I haven't figured out what you did to fix it, though. At the ending, would you mind putting in the thing you did with the bonus at the end in the previous version - namely looking up and picking them one by one? I thought that was fun. That and making the big ring appear while the score counted and entering the bonus stage without entering it.

Posted: 2/2/2005 10:18 PM

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xebra

Joined: 5/3/2004
Posts: 1203

Yeah, I can do that with the bonus tags. And I'll keep in jumping through the big ring at the end of SY2, too.

Posted: 2/9/2005 3:42 PM

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Truncated

Editor, Reviewer, Experienced player (969)

Joined: 4/17/2004
Posts: 3107
Location: Sweden

So how's this going? You're not getting away.

Posted: 2/14/2005 8:30 PM

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Truncated

Editor, Reviewer, Experienced player (969)

Joined: 4/17/2004
Posts: 3107
Location: Sweden

Really, I mean it. :) Any progress on this? You know everyone wants to see you do it.

Posted: 2/16/2005 10:06 PM

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McBAIN

Joined: 1/9/2005
Posts: 219
Location: The Netherlands

Oh yeah, i definitely liked what i saw :) Thou must go on! :)

http://www.megazpeed.com - THE site for the ultimate MegaMan Zero superplay movies.

Posted: 4/1/2005 7:38 PM

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papajones

Joined: 3/14/2005
Posts: 49

Its been more then a month, I really hope the auther didn't quit yet.

Posted: 4/1/2005 9:56 PM

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Bag_of_Magic_Food

He/Him

Active player (278)

Joined: 5/29/2004
Posts: 5712

I know Xebra was working on some Sonic 3 competition mode dealy...

put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude

Posted: 4/30/2005 9:55 AM

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McBAIN

Joined: 1/9/2005
Posts: 219
Location: The Netherlands

So, like, this project is dead? :|

http://www.megazpeed.com - THE site for the ultimate MegaMan Zero superplay movies.

Posted: 4/30/2005 9:24 PM

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Bag_of_Magic_Food

He/Him

Active player (278)

Joined: 5/29/2004
Posts: 5712

Yup. Better do it yourself!

put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude

Posted: 5/1/2005 7:30 AM

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xebra

Joined: 5/3/2004
Posts: 1203

Well, not dead ... but on a rather lengthy sabbatical.

Posted: 5/6/2005 6:33 PM

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xebra

Joined: 5/3/2004
Posts: 1203

I have to admit, I was jealous of Q's Sonic 2 run because his Chem Plant 1 is the shortest level in any of the Genesis games (not counting Knux Hidden Palace in S3&K which isn't really a level), and that's a super cool thing to have in your run. Some might say I shouldn't have been that jealous since that was one of the levels I helped him to optimize. In truth, he took the time from 22 seconds to 18.1 seconds on his own, and I came in at the 11th hour and pointed out how to shave off 0.1 seconds for the 17. So yeah, I was still jealous. Anyways, Q, you can have your CP1 because I finally tied you! http://www.geocities.com/xebranick/Sonic1Acts1-2v3byxebra.zip I got 17 seconds on Green Hill Zone Act 2. The run through is still very rough, and I'm sure I can knock off some more frames, though at this point in time I don't see how 16 can be possible. For those that have watched the run, if you land even a few pixels more inside the wall above the breakaways, you are "stuck," at which point pressing left will shoot you off at high speed to the right, while pressing right will shoot you off at high speed to the left. I have not found a way to exploit this, because no matter what I do I have to collect the boots. Launching from slightly different spots inside the wall sends you off at different velocities. It is possible to launch yourself off to the left at just the right trajectory so that you pass directly above the long row of spikes and shoot clear off the screen. When this happens the game starts scrolling at very high speed to the right. I was hoping it would scroll all the way to the end of the level, but I die (even though you can't see Sonic) when I reach the portion with the moving platforms and spikes interspersed amongst each other, past the loop with the 1-up on top. If I jump at just the right time I can make it farther into the spikes/platforms, but I still die. I'm not sure if I die because Sonic, wherever he is, is somehow colliding with a spike, somewhere, or just because that's the first part of the level that has no bottom whatsoever, and Sonic, wherever he is, falls completely off the map. Here is a movie of the glitch: http://www.geocities.com/xebranick/gh2glitch.zip. If anyone can tell me what the heck is going on there, and whether or not it might be possible to do something to scroll past the portion where I die, that would be great.