xebra, you seem to have an unfounded personal vendetta against the Sonic Center and are spreading bad rumours that can't be challenged since nobody from there comes here (apparently). I don't agree that members of TSC were known "more for their immaturity than their integrity" - I'd like to see evidence backing this up. I highly doubt that any of the Sonic 1 times were faked or cheated. It appears to be your condescending personality, rather than the collective immaturity of the whole sonic center, which is causing these views - your blind accusations of cheating with no evidence, as well as the way you p*ssed someone off in the sonic 2 thread are examples.
Though I'm sure he will deny it, I provided SadisticMystic with incontrovertible proof that FoxLuc entered false times. He banned me. The admins at TSC had no thought for fair competition, and as far as I'm concerned the entire community is corrupt. So stick that up your tailpipe and smoke it. As for the little spat Quietust and I had in the Sonic 2 thread, that's none of your damned business. People sometimes get frustrated with each other and we worked through it like civilized individuals.
Okay, I tried what you said and got a 0:19, but I don't think that's the reason why. I'm sure you're aware of this, but if you're not I found a way to jump over the wall after the "speed bumps" leading to the escalating stairs near the end of the level. I haven't seen the speedrun of this level, so I don't know if this is used or not. Have a look:
http://www.geocities.com/eonouzo/StarLightZone2in19.zip
The time can easily be brought down to 0:18, possibly even 0:17. The jump before the crumbling floor at the beginning can be done better. This is merely a demostrational video.
EDIT: Okay, just brought it down to 0:18 barely.
EDIT2: Woohoo! 0:17 reached! BTW, I had to slowdown at the end because of the formation of the rotating platforms.
P.S. I realize Star Light Zone is a long way from where you're at, I just hope I can motivate you to continue on :)
Awesome times, Ouzo. The second jump is a great find, it's not used in the speed run. It may be a bit of time before I get started again, though ... I'm taking some summer classes and working a bit more than I did during the regular semester.
I've been trying out Star Light Zone 1 and am stumped on how to get to 0:26. I've gotten 0:27, so I must have an incorrect route. I'll see what I can do.
EDIT: Got it down to 0:26. Though, I'm puzzled to how a speedrun could have acheived this time.
Joined: 4/21/2004
Posts: 3517
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
dude, now that you are aware of your potential for this game, continue and end this cursed game!
Nitrogenesis wrote:
Guys I come from the DidyKnogRacist communite, and you are all wrong, tihs is the run of the mileniun and everyone who says otherwise dosnt know any bater! I found this run vary ease to masturbate too!!!! Don't fuck with me, I know this game so that mean I'm always right!StupedfackincommunityTASVideoz!!!!!!
Arc wrote:
I enjoyed this movie in which hands firmly gripping a shaft lead to balls deep in multiple holes.
natt wrote:
I don't want to get involved in this discussion, but as a point of fact C# is literally the first goddamn thing on that fucking page you linked did you even fucking read it
Cooljay wrote:
Mayor Haggar and Cody are such nice people for the community. Metro City's hospitals reached an all time new record of incoming patients due to their great efforts :P
Ouzo, try not jumping down the slope that takes you towards the rotating platforms. It will give you more speed to launch up, land on the platforms (with skill/luck) and jump to the right onto the level part where that green bot thing is.
I reached 0:25, but the route you're describing is slower than the one I used (I used it in the 0:27 video above). I did what you said, but instead I landed on the ledge with the fan and that gave me a small boost.
EDIT: Oops, sorry. The link is fixed now.
I'm just doing test runs for now (Like Quietust did before making the final version). Although, I'm not sure if I have a whole lot of time right now to do that (sound familiar?).
I took a stab at Star Light 3 and got a 0:57. Due to Robotniks up-and-down movements, I had trouble being able to jump up to him consistently.
EDIT: Got a 0:51 mostly because of a much better Robotnik technique.
Overall your path is excellent, and your boss strategy is without peer, but you are missing a crucial shortcut. The corner of the cieling that you clip at 41:09 can be bypassed. I've yet to look at this level in an emulator so I honestly can't tell you what it is you need to do in order to not clip that corner, when speed running SL3 I always chalked it up to luck. I suspect it just has to do with your departure point from the upslope, so try adding in a jump somewhere prior to change your point of departure.
You can get considerably more horizontal velocity than you did. If you do it right you will know it, because you'll miss that corner by a mile. If memory serves correctly it will launch you far enough so that you don't need to jump up to the last platform. I'm sure that's enough of a time saver to get 46-47.
You can also shave various amounts of frames here and there with better slope jumping. Just by tweaking a few jumps from ~00:41:00 on I was able to get to the checkpoint at 00:45:32, which is more than the 9 frame improvement you needed for a 46s finish. I haven't actually sat down and examined the rest of the level but my "instinct" tells me you can probably whittle the level down to 43-44s on minor improvements alone.
You just have to press left a little just before the super-steep part.
xebra wrote:
You can also shave various amounts of frames here and there with better slope jumping. Just by tweaking a few jumps from ~00:41:00 on I was able to get to the checkpoint at 00:45:32, which is more than the 9 frame improvement you needed for a 46s finish. I haven't actually sat down and examined the rest of the level but my "instinct" tells me you can probably whittle the level down to 43-44s on minor improvements alone.
I am aware of its imperfections. As I said, these are just test runs, but within a couple weeks I'll start on a professional run. By the way, I appreciate your advice. Do you have anything to say about the route I'm taking in Star Light Zone 1? I'm sure the time can lowered because of reasons you stated.
xebra, you seem to have an unfounded personal vendetta against the Sonic Center and are spreading bad rumours that can't be challenged since nobody from there comes here (apparently). I don't agree that members of TSC were known "more for their immaturity than their integrity" - I'd like to see evidence backing this up. I highly doubt that any of the Sonic 1 times were faked or cheated. It appears to be your condescending personality, rather than the collective immaturity of the whole sonic center, which is causing these views - your blind accusations of cheating with no evidence, as well as the way you p*ssed someone off in the sonic 2 thread are examples.
Though I'm sure he will deny it, I provided SadisticMystic with incontrovertible proof that FoxLuc entered false times. He banned me. The admins at TSC had no thought for fair competition, and as far as I'm concerned the entire community is corrupt. So stick that up your tailpipe and smoke it. As for the little spat Quietust and I had in the Sonic 2 thread, that's none of your damned business. People sometimes get frustrated with each other and we worked through it like civilized individuals.
I would really like to see some proof of this since I have been going to soniccenter for a while (until it shutdown) and I haven't heard anything about this. Even if this is true (which I highly doubt) the actions of one person don't represent the whole community.
From my experience there most of the people who submited fake times were caught. The people there had some sort of method to determine if a time was fake or not but wouldn't reveal it to the public because it would make it easier for cheaters to fake times. There were also many videos submitted to prove the times were real.
Joined: 4/21/2004
Posts: 3517
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
I'm veeery pleased to hear that you will begin in a few weeks to do a run of this game Ouzo! Good luck.
Nitrogenesis wrote:
Guys I come from the DidyKnogRacist communite, and you are all wrong, tihs is the run of the mileniun and everyone who says otherwise dosnt know any bater! I found this run vary ease to masturbate too!!!! Don't fuck with me, I know this game so that mean I'm always right!StupedfackincommunityTASVideoz!!!!!!
Arc wrote:
I enjoyed this movie in which hands firmly gripping a shaft lead to balls deep in multiple holes.
natt wrote:
I don't want to get involved in this discussion, but as a point of fact C# is literally the first goddamn thing on that fucking page you linked did you even fucking read it
Cooljay wrote:
Mayor Haggar and Cody are such nice people for the community. Metro City's hospitals reached an all time new record of incoming patients due to their great efforts :P
From my experience there most of the people who submited fake times were caught.
That's doubtful. Where there is incentive to cheat, no penalties for doing so, and almost zero chance of you getting caught, people will cheat. People even cheat when there is absolutely no incentive to cheat. (Meaning they will not benefit in any way by cheating.) I am an economics student and have read extensively about a number of studies concerning cheating and how it affects various game theory models, and they all agree on at least one conclusion: the vast majority of people are cheaters.
I recall a particularly damning study I read about a few years ago. In the study, participants were given two puzzles to solve. Both of those puzzles were those sliding-block puzzles where you have 15 numbers and you just have to push the blocks around to put the numbers in order. One of them was easy to solve, and one of them was literally impossible to solve. (It's simple to construct an impossible puzzle, just take a solved puzzle and swap the positions of any two adjacent numbers. Since there is no sliding maneuver that can exhange the positions of any two adjacent numbers, the puzzle is unsolvable.) The interesting thing about these puzzles was the pieces weren't locked together, or locked into the board. A cheater could easily just remove all the pieces and arrange them however he liked, akin to taking apart a Rubik's Cube and reassembling it into the solved position.
Anyways, the participants in the study were normal people. They got paid money for participating in the experiment, but the amount had nothing to do with whether or not they solved the puzzles. All they had to do was walk into the room, try to solve the puzzles, and walk out. No one cared if they solved anything. The results were not associated with their names, it was completely anonymous. No one watched them while they tried to solve the puzzles. They could spend as long as they wanted trying to solve the puzzles. There was absolutely no incentive to cheat. How many people, do you suppose, "solved" the impossible puzzle? Over 80%.
So you tell me: did most of TSC use emulators, when there was a strong incentive to cheat, little or no chance of getting caught, and no penalties if you were?
The people there had some sort of method to determine if a time was fake or not but wouldn't reveal it to the public because it would make it easier for cheaters to fake times.
"Secret methods" only existed for more advanced games, I don't recall which ones in particular because I played none of them ... probably all the GBA and GCN games. The super secret method was just to note that the clock had a finer resolution than the graphics engine of the game itself -- for example, the clock updates every 1/100th of a second, the graphics update every 1/60th of a second. That made certain times impossible, so if someone pulled a number out of thin air, there was a decent probability it would be an impossible time. For people that pulled 10 times out of thin air, it was virtually assured one of them would be fake, and then you could just invalidate all of that person's times. If you don't understand this, go look at the times for Sonic Advance. Notice how none of them end in 1, 4, or 9? So if you completely made up a time for a track in Sonic Advance, there was a 3/10 chance you'd pick a time that ended in 1, 4, or 9, which is obviously fake. Not only are the odds on that cheat detection method pretty poor, but any moron could discover how it worked and thus never get caught by it.
None of the Sega Genesis games have this (or any) cheat detection method, even Sonic 3 Competition Mode. Despite S3C having a timer with hundredth-second resolution, it's still possible to force the game to display any time.
There were also many videos submitted to prove the times were real.
There are many videos on this site. How real are they? Even the videos I submitted at TSC, which consisted of actual footage of me playing live on a TV, could have been faked. All I'd have to do is get a good run on Gens, hook my computer up to my TV, full screen Gens, and record that.
Whoa, hi there friend. Looks like you pulled a fast one on us about Ghost; not that it matters. Could've come back as xebra2 and simply not acted asinine.
Anyway. Of course there's always a tradeoff between statistic integrity and inclusivity; I would prefer a small minority of inaccurate statistics than eliminate the vast majority of honest players because they couldn't provide 100% incontrovertible proof. The lead runners on the scoreboards are people with known integrity, and that is of significance. A few cheaters in the average levels, while deplorable, is not terrible enough to justify denying everyone else the opportunity to compete.
I find it interesting that you think there is significantly more cheating in the old games, in which we are less able to counter-check, than in the newer ones, which presumably would have younger (and hence more immature and possibly aethical) players and thus more cheating. I also find it interesting that you apparently would hold that most purported cheaters would take the time to divulge a system of times they don't know exists before submitting their first time. You also fail to realize (intentionally?) that most people submit more than one time, so the odds ofcatching cheaters are pretty near one. But whatever.
For those who don't know, I'm the TSC admin. We're down because we exceeded the bounds of our old server, and I'm negotiating getting a dedicated one with some people I do contract work for, since I don't have cash out the wazoo to spend on one outright. We'll be back in some form by the end of the month, ideally sooner.
Could've come back as xebra2 and simply not acted asinine.
By not acting assinine do you mean ignore flaws in your system and not point out when mods are abusive?
The lead runners on the scoreboards are people with known integrity, and that is of significance.
Well, this was where we always disagreed. Or, more accurately, this was where SadisticMystic and I always disagreed. You didn't seem to care, or to want to have anything to do with managing the times or forums, so much so that you left them in the hands of a child.
I would prefer a small minority of inaccurate statistics than eliminate the vast majority of honest players because they couldn't provide 100% incontrovertible proof.
It's pretty unlikely the cheaters were a minority. People cheat for no reason. That's just the way they are.
I also find it interesting that you apparently would hold that most purported cheaters would take the time to divulge a system of times they don't know exists before submitting their first time.
It takes all of no time at all to notice the times already posted follow a (very simple) pattern, especially with how much the subject was discussed on the forums.
You also fail to realize (intentionally?) that most people submit more than one time, so the odds ofcatching cheaters are pretty near one.
