"Essentia" on the SDA forums said this:
Essentia wrote:
Hmm...Google translates only the first part of the Chrono Trigger report. If I understand it correctly, they defeated Lavos when you encounter him in the Ocean Palace
If (s)he's right, that'd explain the low time for a console run...
From section 5 (a walkthrough):
Leene's square, after getting Marle: Talk to the merchant in Leene's square instead of the chick near the fountain. Closing the terminal immediately takes a little time, but it's faster because the speech of the girl on the fountain prevents you from moving.
-Someone wanna test this? Here's the Japanese if someone wants to make sure I've got it straight:
（噴水のそばの人から話を聞くとマールの台詞が終わるまで動くことが出来ません。一方、
商人から話を聞く場合は、画面を閉じたらすぐに移動可能なためほんのわずかですが時間
が短縮できます。）
Guardia forest, after getting Lucca: Intentionally kill some rolypolys. hero of the day had used 'tactics', but learning 'flame wheel' [pretty sure; not certain that he's talking about Crono+Lucca's 'fire spin' tech] takes extra 50 seconds at most. Immediately afterward in the unavoidable battles against mianu x 4, [naga, right?] hench x 3 [lit: magus' manservant], and diablos x 2 battles, the time spent pays for itself.
-Wow. Again, the Japanese:
（hero of the dayさんが使用していた戦術です。かえんしゃりん習得のために50秒ほど余分な時間がかかりますが、直後のミアンヌ×4戦、魔王のしもべ×3+ディアブロス×2との強制
戦闘においてそれ以上の時短効果をもたらします。）
Halamantariel wrote:
If (s)he's right, that'd explain the low time for a console run...
Yeah, that would corroborate what I've translated so far.
Actually. I could swear that Crono would die anyway, even if you did beat Lavos. Seeing as how Lavos isn't really a boss at that point in the game, more like just a big insta-death mini boss.
Then again, it may have just been a while since I went through the game on New Game + or something..
It's not insta-death... I mean, it usually is if you're not doing a newgame+, but there's apparently an insane amount of leveling before fighting Nizbel and Azala. I'd also assume that there are a lot of minor tweaks along the way, equipment/items that might not seem useful in a conventional tas, etc.
...And then, of course, if you beat the shell, then the shell can't kill Crono.
Joined: 11/14/2005
Posts: 1057
Location: United States
He could not have killed lavos during the ocean palace since that would contradict his statements about doing the underground side quest at the end of the game.
Drat. Well, section 5 will answer all in time. I'll try to get through that on sunday. There's quite a bit to trawl through, but most of it is useless information, so it's light reading.
Ok, I am dumbfounded right now. I have my doubts about the validity of this run (how did he know what the in-game timer was after lavos died?). A full translation would be very much appreciated Dromiceius.
To my understanding, he used a stopwatch from the last save point to determine the final time. That's what I got from the text.
He could not have killed lavos during the ocean palace since that would contradict his statements about doing the underground side quest at the end of the game.
If you're referring to helping Fiona restore the forest, that entire quest is available as soon as you tell the woman in Zeal to plant the seed in secret.
OMG, I think he skipped the Ocean Palace entirely!!
(Those don't having to lose Crono at all)
He mostly leveled up in Tyrano's Lair, beating Fiona's Forest Quest to get the Green Dream (which seems to be unavoidable for his low conditions), getting all the useful items from the black chests like Swallow (which not only give much much power, but also increases Cronos Speed by whole 3 points), Wall Ring for 10+ Magic Defense, the unavoidable Vigil Hats (everything makes much sense now, since to that time, Vigil Hats can only be bought in Fiona's Shrine after you complete that quest) to protect Status like from "Confusion" etc. which Lavos casts very often, then immediately heading to End of Time, and take the Bucket to Lavos.
A crazy idea but seems possible with extremely careful planning. :-)
Can't wait to see the translation for more details though.
Joined: 11/13/2006
Posts: 87
Location: California, USA
O.O The Japanese ARE crazy!
Well I need to look into this, and by "look into this" I mean "wait until the run is up somewhere."
Now I can't wait for someone to obsolete THIS one by another 15 minutes ^_^
If you see me posting, I'm most likely being a douche.
<small>Working on:
not ever coming here again</small>
Joined: 4/25/2004
Posts: 615
Location: The Netherlands
Okay, my two cents then. I dont speak nor read japanese (although it is on my todo list ;)). I used a translator app (here: http://www.tialsoft.com/japanese-translation/) which only allows for 6000 chars per translation, but whatever. Style did get lost so you're on your own there. It's a very rough translation but i figure you can manage if you really want to.
Good luck with it...
If it doesnt copy japanese chars properly here i'll upload the .doc i copied the whole thing into somewhere.
---
edit: mm mmm mm this will take three or four posts to just put the whole text in. I'll just upload ;)
http://phil.uu.nl/~zee/chrono.doc
Joined: 11/14/2005
Posts: 1057
Location: United States
I gotta admit this is one insane strategy, never in a million years did I think a person could defeat lavos in a timely manner before the entire ocean palace event even took place. Any one have any idea how much leveling up he does exactly? I really want to learn more about this new strategy, and maybe make another tas some time.
Any one have any idea how much leveling up he does exactly? I really want to learn more about this new strategy, and maybe make another tas some time.
I posted this yesterday (though it seems nobody actually read it before asking questions.) :/
Monsters of battle | XP | TP
2 dokkan + 2 dinosaur men (47 times) 26790/846
2 dokkan + 2 dinosaur men (30 times) 20880/660
Nizbel-R 880/15
Azala, Black Tyrano 1800/25
6 Nus 744/90
Underground desert's monster (7 pairs) 8028/315
Merufikku 2600/100 [I have no idea what that is.]
Total: 61722/2051
Required: 61241/2046
Admittedly, I don't know what dokkan or dinosaur men are, but it's an encounter that occurs right before Nizbel-R.
I'm halfway through the mini-walkthrough the guy wrote. That'll explain everything.
Joined: 11/14/2005
Posts: 1057
Location: United States
I apologize Dromiceius, I missed the 3 last posts on page 15, I thought the first new post was on 16 so I never looked. Thanks for the information, it certainly explains how he go so powerful. This strategy may be very boring to watch though due to the fact that it would consist of 30+ minutes of straight leveling up, but it is a very good strategy none the less and I am excited to see how much time could be saved in a new TAS.
Ahh... no worries. I'm just irritable and sleep-deprived.
Anyway, in the span of about 26 hours, I've translated a pretty big chunk of the text... really badly! Section 5 I'll vouch for, (except for a few parts, involving beetles) but don't expect much from the rest of what's been done so far.
Section 5, the walkthrough, isn't quite completed. There are five or six pages still to be done, but taken altogether, you should have a pretty clear idea of how to do this run.
here you go.
Joined: 11/14/2005
Posts: 1057
Location: United States
I just finished reading what Dromiceuis translated. Thanks for your work so far Dromiceius, you have done an excellent job!
From what I gathered, his strategies are almost the same as mine up until tyrano lair, with only a couple exceptions. Essentially I could simply redo the last 25% of my run and it would reduce the time drastically. He even uses the same spot that I do in the tyrano lair to level up his characters, except I stop after only a few battles, while he does 77(?) consecutive battles.
Once his boss strategies are fully translated, I will start to plan for a new run. I can't promise that I will make a new run though, it will take quite a while to make and I don't know if I have the patience anymore.
Joined: 11/18/2006
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moozooh wrote:
Tragedy wrote:
How can it be a stereotype if it's true? o.o
Stereotype = a fixed, overly popular model of perceiving something.
True = something universally agreed upon.
I'm not seeing any contradictions.
A stereotype is a preconceived perception of a person or thing based on all other members of the group that person or thing belongs to. It instantly prejudices (and I use this term in the dictionary sense, prejudice can be a good thing) you to a certain mindset about something without having any pre-existing knowledge about it.
Similarly (and differently), a generalization is a trait that is known to usually be true, but is used with the knowledge that differences do exist in the population, and that just because the majority of the population may have this generalization, not all members of it must have it.
Bad Stereotype (a gaming one at that): All Sega Genesis games are inferior in the sound aspect of the game.
Generalization: Even though some Genesis games have poor sound, there is a spectrum of good and bad for the platform.
I wrote this quickly so there may be some semantic errors, but you get the general idea. And I agree that some Japanese people are crazy, just as some Americans are crazy :-P
Stereotypes are just perpetuated by a small group of zealous speedrunners. You can't generalize their abilities to the whole race. That would be like saying all Americans are wealthy because Bill Gates and Warren Buffett have the records for wealth.
Borg Collective wrote:
Negotiation is irrelevant. Self-determination is irrelevant. You will be assimilated.
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?=?=?=?=?=?=?=?=?=?=?=?=?=?=?=?=?=?=?=?=?=?=
Attack report of chrono trigger time
?=?=?=?=?=?=?=?=?=?=?=?=?=?=?=?=?=?=?=?=?=?=
This report is chrono trigger TA record detailed summary of 3 hours and 49 minutes that I put out on February 19, 2007. The maximum point of this record is to knock down Ravos at extremely early time before Shilbard is obtained. As a result, all events of the digestion of past TA from the underground water road mark to dream appearance of the black are cut, and it succeeds in a great time crunch.
So when do we get to actually watch this faster run?
