Joined: 11/14/2005
Posts: 1057
Location: United States
I strongly agree with Bob A. Using the glitch only when it is deemed more entertaining is just too subjective. I for one don't really mind watching the cut scenes, but if you are gonna cut them out you might as well cut out everything else too.
Joined: 8/6/2006
Posts: 784
Location: Connecticut, USA
I would be with inichi and moozooh on this one. I think skipping the cutscenes and leaving the boss battles isn't really too arbitrary or subjective. I can't really speak for whether "menu-glitch, boss inclusive" should become a new category or not, but if it didn't become a new category, someone could come along and obsolete his movie soon after by cutting out boss fights, which I feel would be a cheap shot.
By the way, can the menu glitch be used to skip any forms of Lavos? :)
By the way, can the menu glitch be used to skip any forms of Lavos? :)
I think it only works on bosses that don't get triggered immediately after entering a room, but only after you "passed" a certain border in the already entered room. Because of that I doubt it will work on any form of Lavos, as all of his fights start immediately after his room is entered.
Regarding the skip-trick issue, I would definitely abuse it to the max and skip all possible bosses/events with it, regardless of slight entertainment losses. The final completion time is what counts most IMO.
Well, don't you have to bump into Lavos to start each phase of the first form? Although you have to walk through where his face was to reach the second form, MAYBE that entrance is already there, I don't know.
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
By the way, can the menu glitch be used to skip any forms of Lavos? :)
You can use the menu glitch and get on Shell Lavos' face before the fight starts. However it seems the entrance into his body only works after you beat him. So you can't skip Shell Lavos after all. Regarding the other forms, as Saturn predicted, there is no room to use the glitch. Here is an attempt to try to skip Shell Lavos just for fun.
here
And thanks a lot everyone for your comments!! I see the point of hero and Bob A is very consistent and reasonable. I still think it's not bad idea to remain only Boss fights for entertainment. However, I've noticed a very strange thing happens then, you fight only Zombor on the Zenan Bridge despite of cutting out two normal fights there by using the glitch. So, I'll probably make a choice either the run using glitch as much as possible or the run not using glitch at all as my final run.
So everyone, could you give me a little longer to think about it? Since now I don't even know how many frames are saved by cutting out the three boss fights. I'm now thinking about of making another testrun with using the glitch fully alongside the current testrun with not using the glitch at all. I think it's not too late to make a decision even after we compare the both frame numbers.
Suggestion:
With this new (amazing) trick, the game will be a LOT quicker. How about having another video next to it that shows only the boss battles? I love the game, but I have to admit I also love to skip all the running around since I (and a lot of others, I'm betting) know the game by heart.
Is it possible to have several save slots in one .SMV ?
Joined: 2/28/2006
Posts: 2275
Location: Milky Way -> Earth -> Brazil
Boss battles are just as boring as any other batlle... the faster you reach the ending, the better.
Ren wrote:
Is it possible to have several save slots in one .SMV ?
If it contains sram, yes... even if there's no sram embeded, if you end the game and then reset, your saved file will be there, and then you'll be able to strat a new game+.
"Genuine self-esteem, however, consists not of causeless feelings, but of certain knowledge about yourself.
It rests on the conviction that you — by your choices, effort and actions — have made yourself into the
kind of person able to deal with reality. It is the conviction — based on the evidence of your own volitional
functioning — that you are fundamentally able to succeed in life and, therefore, are deserving of that success."
- Onkar Ghate
Bisqwit wrote:
I don't think there are that many bosses that can be skipped in this manner... only the ones where you need to walk past them into another room to continue, right? I'd rather see the game done with all known timesavers.
It might be nice to see a second run with the bosses in. Maybe something that includes some of the endgame sidequests, like a "beats all bosses" goal, a non-vaguely defined "100%" goal... or something of the sort.
Joined: 8/6/2006
Posts: 784
Location: Connecticut, USA
Shadow Byrn wrote:
You mean like completeing all the little side-quests at the end of the game? That'd be both cool and long.
I always kinda saw that as the second half of the game, rather than the end. I haven't watched any of the tool-assists for CT yet, though I'm rather curious. I'll have to watch one as soon as I have a large-ish chunk of time.
I guess that just depends on your view of when the end of the game is. Right when you're given those quests, you're basically told to go get Lavos now, but there's all this other stuff to do instead, so decide. That's why I condsider it the end of the game...even if doing all of them takes as long as getting to the point of officially getting them!
I am just a silhouette, a silhouette of a memory of a solitary night .. nothing more.
It might be nice to see a second run with the bosses in. Maybe something that includes some of the endgame sidequests, like a "beats all bosses" goal, a non-vaguely defined "100%" goal... or something of the sort.
methinks that would mean starting all the side quests and finishing none.
Joined: 11/17/2005
Posts: 278
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Well...
The Longest Movies Page wrote:
4:21:11.83 [450] SNES Chrono Trigger (USA) by hero of the day in 4:21:11.83
4:05:52.87 [549] SNES Final Fantasy VI (USA v1.1) by Erokky in 4:05:52.87
3:34:41.07 [942] SNES Final Fantasy V (JPN) by samurai goroh in 3:34:41.07
3:26:09.18 [567] SNES Earthbound (USA) by Halamantariel & Nitrodon in 3:26:09.18
3:03:12.78 [792] SNES Lufia II (USA) by Gunty in 3:03:12.78
When a movie is this long it just needs to be shorter. So for Chrono Trigger I say go for the largest and craziest improvement possible. (Which you are!)
CT is one of those RPGs where only three things happen: you walk around, you read text, and you watch pretty battle animations. It's hard to make it entertaining. I'm a big fan of sequence breakers in these types of games because, ironically, they add something that I haven't seen before. I've played through CT maybe a dozen times in addition to watching the accepted movie. So I've seen Mr. Zombor 13 times. If you want to entertain me then show me something impossible. Crossing Zenan Bridge without waking up Zombor is impossible. ;)
I agree. If you can sequence break this game to death, then do so. It would be cool to see a LONG RPG taken down in a short amount of time. It would be kinda like watching the Mario 64 runs..
I am just a silhouette, a silhouette of a memory of a solitary night .. nothing more.
Question: are there any really cool items/weapons you could get with this new glitch? Like stuff that you have to go past a certain point to get, but the game stops you?
I am just a silhouette, a silhouette of a memory of a solitary night .. nothing more.
Question: are there any really cool items/weapons you could get with this new glitch? Like stuff that you have to go past a certain point to get, but the game stops you?
Yes. Forest Ruins event skip is just the thing.
As you can see, Swallow is an extremely useful weapon for any CT speed run because it does Crono's Attack power 1.5 times compared to Slasher, boosts his speed +3, and also increases his critical hit rate by 10-15%.
Also, as for the rest of skippable cutscene by using the skip-trick. Here are all of them I have found so far.
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/940522340/Guardia%20prison%201.smvhttp://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1426231771/Guardia%20prison%202.smvhttp://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/186477352/Heckran%20Cave.smvhttp://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/544544263/Laruba%20ruins.smvhttp://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/753748503/Melchior%27s%20Hut%202.smvhttp://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/834009490/Sunken%20Desert.smvhttp://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1820778243/Zenan%20Bridge.smv
I guess that more sequence break is possible in the latter part of the game, but unfortunately they are not useful for any% run at all.
Also, After I give myself about two weeks and ponder over the issue over and over, I made up my mind:
I'll make a run not using skip-trick at all.
Please don't get me wrong. I fully understand that there is no doubt that the glitched run would definitely be the best one in this case, and, I wish I could make it. However, to be honest, I'm not at all sure I would have kept enough motivation to do crazy optimization, rather, finish the run if I choose making the run using the skip-trick fully. Perhaps, I may not submit the movie because it will contain obvious improvements all over the place due to not using the skip-trick.
I'm sorry for making the decision which might be unacceptable for most people here.
Someday I may feel like working on a glithced-run, maybe not, but, whatever the case may be, I'm certain that my current test run and final run would be helpful for someone who will work on the run with full-glitch and aim for the fastest time in the (near) future. I have hoped for seeing the limit of CT since I got interested in CT speedrun. That is why I have not kept almost all new tricks and strategies to myself and made them public. So, I'll make 100% effort to finish my run for that purpose, anyway.
Under these circumstances, I back off from an earlier statement that I would make the test run using the skip-trick as much as possible. And I'll soon resume the current test run from the end of Masamune battle. I hope that would be a good one because I have already found a new strategy for two Reptites fights, which would be about 100 frames faster than the current one using Robo's Laser Beam twice.
Now I'm wondering if there is somebody who still keeps up interest in my run and it is all right to post the progress of my testrun on some regular basis as before.
I'm willing to accept any criticizm over my decision. Sorry.
Hmm, what if you make a submittable run using the skip and include the demos of everything you have skipped with it in the submission message? It seems that way you'll kill both birds with one stone: the run will be as fast as possible and all the new battle strategies will be easily accessible to everyone willing to watch them.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
I'm very happy you decided to not use the skip-trick. I don't care about the arbitrary number (i.e. completion time) at the movie page, I want to see an entertaining movie with cool boss battles. I'm very much looking forward to a new CT run, go for it!
Joined: 11/14/2005
Posts: 1057
Location: United States
inichi,
I strongly agree with your position. Don't feel bad if anyone says anything negative about your choice. This is your game and your run, you should always do what you feel is best. It will be published regardless.
moozooh,
that idea wouldn't work due to continuity changes. Example, if he skipped a battle he would be less experienced (less techs, weaker characters) also he would avoid picking up good items. So including the skipped battles would be too arbitrary. Who would decided at what level and with what items he would be allowed to fight the bosses (even for demo purposes)?
So including the skipped battles would be too arbitrary. Who would decided at what level and with what items he would be allowed to fight the bosses (even for demo purposes)?
It doesn't matter since it's, right as you say, for demo purposes. He just needs to have just what is enough to demonstrate the new strategy (which is probably how it's going to be in skip-less run).
Either way, I'm fine with this decision, since I'm somewhat more interested in seeing the improved battles as well, rather than seeing them skipped.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
Joined: 11/14/2005
Posts: 1057
Location: United States
I apologize if I misunderstand what you are saying moozooh. Let me try this hypothetical scenario.
I could go into guardia forest and fight 1,000 battles, by the time I get to Yakra I could kill him in like 10 seconds. It would change the strategy altogether. By the same token in a "skip filled run" he would skip all the mandatory battles in guardia forest, but he would also skip Yakra himself. Now if he skipped the battles in gaurdia forest and chose to fight Yakra for a demo movie, he would be weaker than than if he chose to do the fights in Guardia forest. The Yakra battle would be slower in this case. It is for this reason that the movie must be either "skips everything" or "skips nothing".
