I believe he means fighting Magus at North Cape instead of befriending him. You can choose to kill him.
That would be a requirement for a lowlevel run, then.
It's almost as if that's what they've been talking about this entire time when they were talking about "excluding" him.
It’s almost as if you don’t know how to read.
blahmoomoo wrote:
ALAKTORN wrote:
The Brookman wrote:
As a rule for sake of maximizing the difficulty of this challenge and
for certain sentiment. Magus should be excluded from any fighting
party and Chrono included wherever possible."
It's almost as if you're trying to win an argument you know you've already lost.
GameFAQs’s writer’s wording was 100% pointless and highly confusing. Not my fault. I still don’t know whether he meant what’s being implied in this topic, because that sure is not what he wrote.
Anyway, how do you beat the final Lavos without Magus?
Using the DS version could be an option but I think the SNES one is a lot more iconic.
Anyway, how do you beat the final Lavos without Magus?
For survival, apparently you have to use a fast Robo (after consuming some speed tabs) combined with him wearing Greendream (one time revive after death) and the triple tech Lifeline (Crono, Marle, and Robo) which is basically Greendream cast on the party.
So the whole party dies due to Lavos' first attack, Robo revives due to Greendream, he revives everyone with revival items, and the party casts Lifeline to survive the next attack. Then you just have to keep casting Lifeline when needed, with Megalixirs to resupply MP. And attack when possible, I guess.
<ccfreak2k> There is no 'ctrl' button on DeHackEd's computer. DeHackEd is always in control.
^Yeah, I should’ve checked the FAQ. Apparently, Ocean Palace Lavos is beatable too, with a sort of NG+ LLG save (not on a first playthrough). The FAQ explains how and also links to this 2008 thread about it: http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/563538-chrono-trigger/42693858
That sounds mad cool. The FAQ also shows how to beat Pink Nu Specchio with the LLG party.
That FAQ is actually really interesting. At the end it says “Basically the final party levels of 1 4 15 15 16 20 37 are the
lowest possible withstanding the maximum level of scrutiny I can give it.” so it might be maxed out.
Edit:
From that 2008 topic:
“Just playing around on my non-NG+ save and I "defeated" OP Lavos. There seems to be a bug where a person reivived by GreenDream is untargetable... I ended up targeting Lavos with a Full Tonic and it killed him somehow.
Then unfortunately the bug persisted and I couldn't heal Robo after Doors of Doom on the next form. Still, freaky. I actually can't figure out how to disable this bug and it's annoying. Hopefully it won't show up in my NG+.”
“So I guess I remembered wrong and it was an elixir that killed him. In any case, I managed to duplicate my success on the last two forms, technically finishing a LLG through OP Lavos without NG+ even.”
Weird bug, anyone knows what it is?
^Yeah, I should’ve checked the FAQ. Apparently, Ocean Palace Lavos is beatable too, with a sort of NG+ LLG save (not on a first playthrough). The FAQ explains how and also links to this 2008 thread about it: http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/563538-chrono-trigger/42693858
That sounds mad cool. The FAQ also shows how to beat Pink Nu Specchio with the LLG party.
That FAQ is actually really interesting. At the end it says “Basically the final party levels of 1 4 15 15 16 20 37 are the
lowest possible withstanding the maximum level of scrutiny I can give it.” so it might be maxed out.
Facing pink Nu needs cheats, just like it says.
The FAQ I posted provides a strategy to beat OP Lavos with Crono+Robo+Lucca, but the equipments it mentions are mostly from the late game of DS version. Apparently you don't get that by OP on a first time playthrough.
From that 2008 topic:
“Just playing around on my non-NG+ save and I "defeated" OP Lavos. There seems to be a bug where a person reivived by GreenDream is untargetable... I ended up targeting Lavos with a Full Tonic and it killed him somehow.
Then unfortunately the bug persisted and I couldn't heal Robo after Doors of Doom on the next form. Still, freaky. I actually can't figure out how to disable this bug and it's annoying. Hopefully it won't show up in my NG+.”
“So I guess I remembered wrong and it was an elixir that killed him. In any case, I managed to duplicate my success on the last two forms, technically finishing a LLG through OP Lavos without NG+ even.”
Weird bug, anyone knows what it is?
am I the only one who finds the low level run objective,repetitive,arbitrary? i may be the only one,but i will surely vote no for this low level run and vote yes for the Chrono Trigger Ds run,which is also an attempt to not level up mostly,save a few convenient battles,there is no skill being shown, just a lot of healing and longer battles.
EDIT:sorry if it's not constructive,i mean no harm but to remember things have to be entertaining in some level if they're not an any% run
http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7214&start=20
TAS i'm interested:
megaman series: mmbn1 all chips, mmx3 any% psx glitched
fighting games with speed goals in general
I guess LL run can be done on both versions and they will look different enough due to the introduction of Arena of Ages in DS version(which I forgo in my any% run).
>decides to vote no before seeing movie
>votes for a game with the same name on different console instead
speaking of arbitrary. . . .
i'm hoping the DS run will use some unique feature,or at least the unavailability of the snes bugs,just like there wind waker and WWHD runs both do.
And yes,i'll vote no for something i already know it's absurd and whose route is similar to a much simpler and the game's main objective ,unless the low level run is not a bunch of longer battles and even more healing.
TAS i'm interested:
megaman series: mmbn1 all chips, mmx3 any% psx glitched
fighting games with speed goals in general
Flea's behavior versus Berserk Frog is attributed to an ATB glitch... Flea's AI doesn't get to advance at all because Frog's speed exactly matches up and overrides Flea's attack. Might be more to it than that, I'm not sure. If Frog's HP is lower than P3's HP, then he'll also override Flea's counterattack, otherwise he won't. Pretty weird. Perhaps Condition 02 could be a check on player's HP, but I would guess it's unrelated.
I find this discussion about a low-level Chrono Trigger run to be very interesting, as I was thinking about a similar concept for a while now which I like to refer to as "lowest stats". Here would be the requirements:
- Acquiring XP is prohibited
- When it's possible to select a party, the sum of the levels of the party members must be minimized
- Cannot use tabs
- Equipping stats-boosting gear is prohibited
- Chrono must equip the mop before his first battle
I don't know if it's possible to beat the game under these conditions without resorting to major glitches, but I figured that it would be a good starting point for defining a doable challenge. One potential variant would be "lowest base stats", which would remove the last 2 requirements from the list.
Here is another challenge TAS I did to test the limits, beating Lavos at the earliest possible point in the game, and getting the first ending (without NewGame+).
Link to video
With a game clock completion of 3 hours and 24 minutes, it's actually not that much slower than an optimized glitchless any% run, and could potentially be the fastest "no SRAM corruption" one if there would be a way to get a more exp-giving battle such as in Death Peak by breaking into it early for example, if possible.
Might also be of use in an "All Endings" run, as one wouldn't need to play through the game a second time.
Enjoy!
Great run! Enjoyed the 30 minutes Lavos fight. I always wonder how did you manipulate all the critical hits.
http://tasvideos.org/Bisqwit/ChronoTriggerEndings.html
You still can't get all endings in a normal play because there is an ending that requires you to beat the game after saving Leene and before the trial. There is absolutely no way to get this ending without the green portal in Leene Square.
I don't know if it's possible to get through the first room of Death Peak with fade-out glitch, but I'm sure the run is no longer glitchless if you do that. :P
Hi, so I was watching a speedrunner called Backgroundguy02 doing an RTA run of 100% and THAT happened
https://clips.twitch.tv/backgroundguy02/RichSardineTF2John
To me, it seems the game read the wrong thign when it was time to ghet the current seqeunce, but it doesn't seem possible to know without testing it on emulator with a ramsearch.
Is this known? Because whatever if it is or not, I am very curious to know why it happened.
Even if it's a sequel, lots of people have to give their all to make a game, but some people think the sequel process happens naturally." - Masahiro Sakurai
This might be potentially related to this? Chrono Trigger SRAM Glitch
But this uses midframe resets, and I don't know if hitting a single instruction in a reset is... plausible.
I also don't know if the bridge is a valid destination from his last save point and this one.
Build a man a fire, warm him for a day,
Set a man on fire, warm him for the rest of his life.
This might be potentially related to this? Chrono Trigger SRAM Glitch
But this uses midframe resets, and I don't know if hitting a single instruction in a reset is... plausible.
I also don't know if the bridge is a valid destination from his last save point and this one.
So far, it seems likely to be a previously deleted save file.
I don't think it would be the reset that did the trick because the text of the file changed before he reset.
Like this file is obtained by doing a save anywhere glitch.....which was probably done previouslyt because the person did ran the game prior and got there.
Even if it's a sequel, lots of people have to give their all to make a game, but some people think the sequel process happens naturally." - Masahiro Sakurai
Nice !
I think the reverse Truce Canyon skip can be done without save/reset in TAS. If you watch this video, the runner saves before the fight trigger, so it looks more like a setup to get the right frame than going through the trigger area like Heckran skip.
In lab16 after taking the Berserker, you can go straight to the left and use the dialog box to bypass the fight trigger instead of going down.
Here is a quick TAS that aims to beat the Ocean Palace Lavos, a much harder version of the boss you are normally supposed to lose to, as fast as possible in glitchless conditions and without NewGame+. Game clock time is 3 hours and 29 minutes at L.Core's defeat, which is closer than I expected to the glitchless any% variations:
Link to video
PS:
It's a direct continuation from the first Zeal Palace visit of this any% run:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UwbZ2q6agbo
It seems I just found... something.
Link to video
Fighting the Ocean Palace Lavos after the Ocean Palace incident:
1. do NOT trigger the 1999 Lavos cutscene in any way
2. set up the double Epoch glitch
3. after Black Omen shows up, enter the Epoch hanger BEFORE talking to Gaspar about Time Egg
4. get on Epoch and immediately get off; this will revert Epoch to the wingless state
5. take the now wingless Epoch to 1999; when Lavos is seen, WAIT, and a battle against the OP Lavos will start; the game will proceed to the scene that asks you if you want to fight or escape regardless of the result of the battle
6. now, trying to trigger the Lavos fight via either the End of Time or Epoch will just result in soft lock, so we can't really call it a "real" all bosses route yet unless we verify that the Black Omen boss rush in the end can proceed without issue
7. we can get winged Epoch back and get out of the double Epoch situation by simply using Epoch from the hanger BEFORE talking to Gaspar; it's still possible to fix it after that but it would be more tricky and I don't think there is a benefit in doing that
Technical explanation:
1. All Lavos (shell) fights take place in the same room in the game with the flag at 7F00CE holding a value that helps determine how that room behaves. These values are not actively being reset after they are set up
2. This generally does not cause issues because all warps to the Lavos battle room are preceded with a value being set to the flag - all except one, the scenario where Lavos is seen during the 1999 cutscene if the initial visit is done via wingless Epoch; this isn't really an oversight in of itself because there isn't any value of the flag that would cause oddity for this during the short duration where wingless Epoch is available anyway, unless...
3. There is a way to get wingless Epoch back after the Ocean Palace incident! Epoch has a status value stored at 000294. There are 4 events in the game that would forcibly set it to a certain value: I. D3 (the wingless era selection screen status) when Epoch takes off from the hanger with a value (7F00BA & 0x80) associated with wings is not set (the value is set irreversibly at the end of the Black Bird incident); II. F3 (the winged era selection screen status) when Epoch takes off from the hanger when the aforementioned value associated with wings is set (this isn't really supposed to happen for obvious reasons, but we are using this scenario here because of the double Epoches glitch); III. 80 (the wingless "idle" state) if the player gets off Epoch from the hanger; IV. A0 (the winged "idle" state) when the player first gets winged Epoch in 12KBC. With the double Epoches glitch, it becomes possible to enter the hanger even after winged Epoch is acquired, which allows us to have wingless Epoch after the Ocean Palace incident
4. Combining these 2 factors, we can now use wingless Epoch to trigger the 1999 cutscene with the Lavos room "status" still being set to the value for the Ocean Palace battle (3), which results in the OP Lavos being spawned when the room is shown and starts a battle if the room stays long enough
