Topic by ElectroSpecter

Posted: 10/29/2009 12:01 AM

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ElectroSpecter

Player (244)

Joined: 8/6/2006
Posts: 784
Location: Connecticut, USA

EVIL BOSS FIGHT + BIG BRUTY. Evil is a pain to manipulate, as I mentioned. I managed to get him down to just one lick and no rocks (none that matter anyway), which I feel is pretty good considering what a typical Evil fight looks like. Big Bruty is fun to TAS. As I'm looking it over now, I'm thinking I can get over the first Bruty a little bit faster since I know how to do it well now. Another problem spot is the vertical descent with all the horizontal ropes. I still need to determine the fastest method of dealing with that (I may try standing on the top of the dividing wall and jumping out to the right). @ZeXr0: I can easily encode any of this but unfortunately with my horrible WiFi (a "perk" of the apartment complex I live in) I cannot upload it to any sort of site. =/

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Posted: 10/29/2009 5:43 PM

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ZeXr0

Joined: 8/27/2006
Posts: 883

Oh too bad, I guess I'll wait for someone else to make an encode, or for this run to be published.

Posted: 10/19/2010 2:02 AM

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ElectroSpecter

Player (244)

Joined: 8/6/2006
Posts: 784
Location: Connecticut, USA

Update! UP THROUGH BIG BRUTY I've redone most of What the Heck and saved a few seconds. The first phase of the Evil boss fight is nearly perfect, and I didn't even really do much manipulation. The improvements in Bruty came as an accident. In my old WIP, I played by the "rules" of the level, for the most part. Then I discovered a neat skip for one of the Bruties. After finding this skip, I was determined to skip ALL the Bruties, and I eventually succeeded (I'm proud of the last one, there's normally a corner there that you can't fall through, but I had a gut feeling that it could be bypassed at the right angle, which turned out to work).

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Posted: 10/26/2010 12:55 PM
(Edited: 10/26/2010 2:33 PM)

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ElectroSpecter

Player (244)

Joined: 8/6/2006
Posts: 784
Location: Connecticut, USA

I'm guessing that in general I won't get much feedback as this is a Sega CD run, so here's a YouTube WIP of Big Bruty and Down the (You)Tubes: Link to video Link to video Disclaimer: I suck at encoding. Also, are there any forum rules about embedding the video directly in the post? I don't see it done very often, so I figured there's some sort of reason not to. EDIT: Thanks moozooh.

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Posted: 10/26/2010 12:59 PM

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moozooh

Senior Moderator

Joined: 8/4/2005
Posts: 5770
Location: Away

Wow, awesome! Also, please embed the videos as you see fit. Most people just don't bother or don't understand how.

Warp wrote:

Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.

Posted: 10/26/2010 2:47 PM

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ElectroSpecter

Player (244)

Joined: 8/6/2006
Posts: 784
Location: Connecticut, USA

So the second pod part of Down the Tubes needs some work, but I have a pretty good grasp on HOW it needs work, so it shouldn't be too much of a problem. Basically, the pod has a maximum x and y speed that oscillates around 750ish. To reach maximum speed in any given direction, it's best to start the pod off with the thrusters at the corresponding quandrantal angle, as it will reach max speed the fastest this way (e.g. for positive x speed, face them right; negative y speed, face them down, etc.). The nice thing about the pod speed, at this point, is that maximum speed can be preserved in an x or y direction (or both), as long as the thrusters don't stray more than 90 degrees in either direction of the speed that you want to preserve. So if you have x speed maxed in a positive direction, for example, you can face the thrusters straight up or straight down or any angle in between and the average x speed won't change (well, the oscillation changes slightly, but I think it changes for the better). Also, changing directions is much faster if you bounce off walls. Turning the thrusters at the right time will allow you to switch from 750ish in one direction to 750ish in the other direction. BUT... walls aren't always in optimal places.

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Posted: 10/26/2010 7:16 PM

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Sonikkustar

Skilled player (1306)

Joined: 9/7/2007
Posts: 1354
Location: U.S.

Oh my. I feel sorry for missing out on these WIPs. They are the awesome. Please continue ElectroSpecter. It looks like you might even beat maTO's TAS, let alone slash_star_dash's TAS! And youre using the Sega CD version!

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Posted: 10/27/2010 2:04 AM

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ElectroSpecter

Player (244)

Joined: 8/6/2006
Posts: 784
Location: Connecticut, USA

Thanks for the feedback guys! It definitely helps.

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Posted: 10/30/2010 1:16 AM

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ElectroSpecter

Player (244)

Joined: 8/6/2006
Posts: 784
Location: Connecticut, USA

Link to video New pod part at the end. If anyone can see any possible improvements, I'm welcoming them before I move on to Snot a Problem.

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Posted: 10/30/2010 1:31 AM

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moozooh

Senior Moderator

Joined: 8/4/2005
Posts: 5770
Location: Away

Shouldn't there be another pod segment, or am I remembering this wrong? I thought there were three.

Warp wrote:

Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.

Posted: 10/30/2010 2:04 AM

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ElectroSpecter

Player (244)

Joined: 8/6/2006
Posts: 784
Location: Connecticut, USA

moozooh wrote:

Shouldn't there be another pod segment, or am I remembering this wrong? I thought there were three.

The next level, Tube Race, has the third (very long) pod segment. However, in the Sega CD version, this whole level is skippable due to a warp (which subsequently makes Andy Asteroids shorter). Perhaps it's not as entertaining, but it's faster...

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Posted: 10/30/2010 3:09 AM

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Weatherton

Experienced player (601)

Joined: 10/23/2004
Posts: 706

ElectroSpecter, I am SO pumped that you're making a run of the Special Edition :) Keep up the great work!

Current Project: - Mario Kart 64

Posted: 11/6/2010 1:46 PM

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ElectroSpecter

Player (244)

Joined: 8/6/2006
Posts: 784
Location: Connecticut, USA

Snot a Problem! is complete, and it turned out to be less of a hassle once I realized something: Major Mucus is only considered killed when he lands in the snot and can only fall so fast, meaning I can snap his bungee cord at any time between the beginning of the round and when he starts to slow down at the bottom. This enacts a sort of "frame rule" where I have a comfortable window of time in which to manipulate him. To reinforce this, take a look at how fast M. Mucus is killed in the first round compared to the third. Despite this difference, both rounds are 319 frames long. Link to video

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Posted: 11/9/2010 1:58 PM

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ElectroSpecter

Player (244)

Joined: 8/6/2006
Posts: 784
Location: Connecticut, USA

An update: I reached the boss of Level 5, but I stumbled upon a trick that will let me save time on horizontal rope segments, meaning I'll have to redo a lot of earlier sections. Hopefully this doesn't give me too much grief. As for progress, I'm currently 56 frames ahead of the published run! Also, I figured out how to skip the escalator, but to my major annoyance I couldn't skip any of the fan segments. I was VERY close to skipping some of them (as in, I can almost jump in between / over / under several of them) but I've resigned myself to the fact that it's just not possible.

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Posted: 11/14/2010 12:08 AM

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ElectroSpecter

Player (244)

Joined: 8/6/2006
Posts: 784
Location: Connecticut, USA

I've found that this new trick only really works when Jim is heading to the right on a horizontal rope. This saves me some work, but it still means I have to redo Big Bruty and possibly deal with bad desyncs (hopefully only for the rest of Big Bruty).

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Posted: 11/14/2010 12:48 AM

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Weatherton

Experienced player (601)

Joined: 10/23/2004
Posts: 706

I'm looking forward to the results :)

Current Project: - Mario Kart 64

Posted: 11/14/2010 1:16 AM

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mmarks

Banned User, Player (142)

Joined: 8/30/2010
Posts: 500
Location: Argentina Bs. As.

Congratulations for your great work, well I have yet finished

[18:51] <scrimpy> Oh, nothing [18:51] <mmarks> oh [18:51] <Nach> I think scrimpy is just jealous of you mmarks

Posted: 11/15/2010 6:17 PM

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ElectroSpecter

Player (244)

Joined: 8/6/2006
Posts: 784
Location: Connecticut, USA

I managed to save 42 frames on Big Bruty, mostly due to the rope thing (and a bit from climbing up a particular ledge faster). Not the most amazing results for a whole lot of hexing, but it will look nicer in the end if I'm consistent with the tricks. EDIT: This game is amazingly hex friendly. I was able to hex the whole rest of my WIP in with just three single frame desyncs, only one of them in an actual level. Back on track!

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Posted: 11/16/2010 3:49 PM

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moozooh

Senior Moderator

Joined: 8/4/2005
Posts: 5770
Location: Away

Awesome, can't wait for further progress!

Warp wrote:

Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.

Posted: 11/16/2010 9:59 PM

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Sonikkustar

Skilled player (1306)

Joined: 9/7/2007
Posts: 1354
Location: U.S.

I saw your Stage 5 WIP on Youtube just now, and I gotta say that this run is shaping up to be an awesome. I congradulate you. Good luck on "For Pete's Sake!"

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Posted: 11/17/2010 1:59 AM

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ElectroSpecter

Player (244)

Joined: 8/6/2006
Posts: 784
Location: Connecticut, USA

Link to video Haha, Sonik, you beat me to it (I began uploading it before work and I just got back). So yeah, the only exciting thing happens right at the beginning where I skip the escalator. Other than that it's a pretty standard run. I tried in particular to skip the cage segment (almost definitely impossible) and any of the fans (almost possible, but probably unskippable). The first incarnation of the boss takes five hits with invincibility time in between. The second form takes 20 hits, also with invincibility time in between. Whips, plasma, regular shots, and even its own bombs all do the same damage to it.

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Posted: 11/19/2010 7:37 PM

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ElectroSpecter

Player (244)

Joined: 8/6/2006
Posts: 784
Location: Connecticut, USA

Update: I managed to save ~ 1700 frames on For Pete's Sake (over the published movie; also, the levels are the same). I'll probably keep this one a surprise for when I submit the movie.

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Posted: 1/19/2011 2:49 PM

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moooh

Joined: 1/19/2011
Posts: 2

Not sure how much difference in physics there is between the Sega CD version and the genesis version, but I noticed this trick was omitted from the previous genesis TAS as well so I figured it would still be worth mentioning: You can jump straight up from ropes/chains by pressing jump while in mid-air right before Jim latches on to the chain. Not sure if this still works in the CD version, but it definitely does in the genesis version and I can even pull it off on a console so there should be at least 2-3 frames where it's possible to trigger the jump. This is probably related to the "jump after hook swinging" thing that was mentioned a couple of pages ago, in that Jim is considered being on ground for a few frames. With this, you can save a handful of frames in Level 5 by jumping off the chain and through the platform above at this part instead of going all the way to the left and then back. Something else also omitted by /*- is jumping over the last wall to the boss in Intestinal Distress. Again, not sure if that is still possible in the Sega CD version, I don't have an emu at hand so can't test it. If it is, it would be done by simply jumping to the left at the end of this stretch, right after the fish.

Posted: 1/19/2011 4:55 PM

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ElectroSpecter

Player (244)

Joined: 8/6/2006
Posts: 784
Location: Connecticut, USA

Hi moooh, I just tried testing both tricks... I couldn't get either to work, unfortunately. I'm pretty sure the programmers must have fixed both. For the chain trick, there's nothing more to it than pressing jump at the right time before landing on it, right? It's kind of a shame because Level 5 is so damn long anyway. (If you could find a way to skip either the cage or the fans I would love you forever!)

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Posted: 1/19/2011 6:56 PM

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moooh

Joined: 1/19/2011
Posts: 2

Not sure exactly how the chain trick works. I usually do it on the far left of that first chain and now that I think about it, I tend to succeed more often if I jump and aim for the far left spot where the chain ends, so maybe the end point has something to do with it. To clarify: I don't think you can be on the chain when jumping off, you need to be falling down towards the chain and initiate the jump just as he connects to the leftmost point of the chain. You might need to hit the exact spot on the edge for it to work. I'll get a video for it so it'll be easier to understand what I'm talking about. I'll see what I can do about the rest of Level 5, although I have no experience in TAS:ing so don't expect me to find anything that you haven't already :)