Topic by Comicalflop

Posted: 4/12/2007 3:02 AM

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Comicalflop

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I made a 100% demo vid to see what the difference is inside the levels between any% of collecting many different fruits as fast as possible vs. all melons, coins, and heart pieces. Turns out, they both look just as entertaining. Only thing I'm wondering about the content is if getting the warp sisters is needed for 100%; I probably should check the walkthrough I found and see if it's required or not. Swordless, how's world 3 coming along?

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Posted: 4/12/2007 3:47 AM

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SwordlessLink

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Not bad. Although I haven't had much time to work on it. I hope to get some of it done right now, though.

Posted: 4/12/2007 6:28 AM

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Comicalflop

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I realized a major mistake that actually stemmed from a minor one. There's too many coins in the game to make it worth collecting for 100%, since it only increases score, there's no defined number of how many coins there should be per stage, and the locations of all of them are not known. in my .m64 that I'm playing around with I gather all the coins on the way, but the only place where it lost time was at the very beginning in pounding for 2 coins in the ground. so that's the only mistake in removing coins from the goal, and yet it requires a redo (which is a shame, I had just finished the race mini-game. but I found a few improvements, which I will implement.)

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Posted: 4/12/2007 6:51 AM

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JSmith

Joined: 8/1/2006
Posts: 428

I don't think this game's cut out for a 100% run; a High Score run would be preferable and almost equivalent.

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Posted: 4/12/2007 3:49 PM

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Comicalflop

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I'm not so sure, the best way to do score is in Trial Mode, which requires you to beat the level which would require sram, and also is best with the black or white Yoshis, which also requires sram. Unfortunately, perfect score in story mode is collect every single fruit (which by the way you cannot do, once you get 30 you're done and move to the next page, realistically for highest score you'd collect 30 melons anyways), kill every enemy, and collect every coin. So I see a score based run as trivial compared to 100%, because you'd just be collecting more coins and killing all enemies.

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Posted: 4/12/2007 8:30 PM

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JSmith

Joined: 8/1/2006
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The number of points you get from beating enemies varies both by enemy color and by combo. IF you nail a line of 5 ordinary enemies with the last one being the right color, it's worth 3x2x5=30 points instead of the normal 3.

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Posted: 4/12/2007 8:38 PM

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Comicalflop

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However, Black or White Yoshi's have every fruit be their favorite fruit, and every enemy color be their favorite color, ergo being able to access those colored yoshis during Trial Mode is best for getting the highest score. which emans start from sram for a score oriented run. which means no go for mupen.

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Posted: 4/12/2007 9:17 PM

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Wouter_Jansen

Joined: 10/31/2005
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whats sram exactly? sounds like it does the same thing as a savestate, so please learn the unacquainted ;)

Posted: 4/12/2007 9:36 PM

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Comicalflop

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SRAM is the file that gets saved in the mupen directory that saves progress. it's usually saved as a .srm, or .eep, or whatever... TASes start from complete power on, clearing all SRAM, making as if playing the cartridge for the first time on a system for the first time. having a SRAM file with certain things unlocked can mean when you power on, those are accessible (like harder modes, certain things unlocked.) TASes shouldn't start from savestates. They can start from SRAM in other emulators, but mupen does not support it. Hope that helped.

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Posted: 4/12/2007 11:41 PM

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Wouter_Jansen

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well I still don't really see the difference from savestates.

Posted: 4/13/2007 1:05 AM

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Titus_Kwok

Joined: 4/30/2006
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Location: the secret cow level

SRAM is the information that normally would have been saved on the cartridge, I believe.

Posted: 4/13/2007 1:08 AM

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Comicalflop

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Correct. and currently, there is no way for mupen to start from SRAM, and starting from savestates is not allowed. So the game must start fresh. And 100% works better for that than high score. if start from SRAM were added, you can take a completed 100% .m64, with black/white yoshi unlocked and all levels played, and go straight to Trial Mode, which is more suited for attaining a high score.

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Posted: 4/13/2007 6:21 AM

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Bag_of_Magic_Food

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Well, you could always do 4 fast run-throughs from a fresh game, then play Trial Mode. Right? And I could turn your earlier statement around by saying that "one hundred percent" is trivial when it's basically a high score run that avoids that fun strategic coin-collecting jazzamatazz.

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Posted: 4/13/2007 6:33 AM

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Comicalflop

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Bag of Magic Food wrote:

Well, you could always do 4 fast run-throughs from a fresh game, then play Trial Mode. Right?

Correct. But why play through the game 4 times just to do that "Score run, plays through the game 4 times in order to get to this mode"? Better yet, once mupen supports start from SRAM, have a separate run that starts right where the 100% leaves off and go for high score.

Bag of Magic Food wrote:

And I could turn your earlier statement around by saying that "one hundred percent" is trivial when it's basically a high score run that avoids that fun strategic coin-collecting jazzamatazz.

You could. But you can get a higher score in Trial mode with the unlocked Yoshis, which you can't get unless you play through the game. Time Trial mode is most oriented for score, and you can't play in a level in that mode unless you beat that level in story mode. In essence, the best runs for power-on no SRAM (which currently is the only form mupen can support) any% and 100% are ideal. Score would be idea as soon as start from SRAM is omplemented.

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Posted: 4/13/2007 7:37 AM

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meepers

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Wouter Jansen wrote:

well I still don't really see the difference from savestates.

SRAM = saved memory, which is cleared upon reset, much like a computer does (temp files anyone?) savestates = a particular point in a game you saved at Hope that helps.

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Posted: 4/13/2007 9:26 AM

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Wouter_Jansen

Joined: 10/31/2005
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Location: The Netherlands

the way I see it they're still the same. you can still get all things needed to start what you actually wanted to do and then make a savestate, and let the final avi 'start' from the savestate. then you still have your items and stuff too. I suppose the difference is that a savestate can be used anywhere, but if it would be used in a way that it looks like a normal game, I don't really see why it isn't allowed (like as a different category). you can just let the intro of the game go and then use the savestate just after selecting the character or something and make it a logical flow and stuff.

Posted: 4/13/2007 2:24 PM

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Shadow_Byrn

Joined: 3/16/2006
Posts: 289

It seems around here the theory is how fast could the game be beaten if it was just turned it on and played. SRAM can sorta do that because it is just there on power-up. Savestates could do that but it would be hard to be exactly when the game powers up, so it would be possible to "cheat" by having the savestate start a little bit later than the power on start.

I am just a silhouette, a silhouette of a memory of a solitary night .. nothing more.

Posted: 4/13/2007 6:17 PM

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Comicalflop

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The movie must begin from console power-on The movie must begin from the game power-on state (no loading of saves). We do not allow save-anchored movies.[5] Exceptions for verified saves (or for a demonstration of something fancy) can only be allowed under special permission. In general, movies that begin from saves are not accepted * We want a standard starting point for movies (power-on). Saves are not standard as there are many of them and may cause the game to go faster or slower than without power-on and hence are difficult to compare. * Saves can be hacked, allowing cheating.

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Posted: 4/13/2007 6:51 PM

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Wouter_Jansen

Joined: 10/31/2005
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so basically, the difference is that savestates need verification, but that can be arranged :p

Posted: 4/14/2007 4:22 AM

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Shadow_Byrn

Joined: 3/16/2006
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Well, if you can get that to work, then maybe you could get my arcade runs accepted around here...

I am just a silhouette, a silhouette of a memory of a solitary night .. nothing more.

Posted: 4/15/2007 7:25 AM
(Edited: 4/16/2007 12:48 AM)

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Comicalflop

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Is it just me or have I once again failed to realize what I do or do not need to get for 100%? Apparently the 3 hearts I need to collect are big hearts, and all three are found on the 2nd page of 1-1. the tiny hearts are heart fruits, and they grant invincibility, and since they're not needed to make the melons or hearts appear and I don't need to be invincible, they're not necessary. and I get one. So I'm going to have to redo yet again (though not from the beginning), but here is my progress up until I realized my blunder. Edit: Here's some uses for the heart fruit: 1. It saves you a ton of eggs. If you pound the ground next to a fruit trapped in a bubble when you are invincible, the fruit will break open! 2. It makes your tongue much longer, helpful for getting enemies from a distance. 3. Lastly, if you pound the ground next to a shyguy while you are invincible, the shyguy will turn into fruit! Except for maybe #2, useless to my needs.

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Posted: 4/15/2007 3:02 PM

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Paused

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comicalflop wrote:

So I'm going to have to redo yet again (though not from the beginning), but here is my progress up until I realized my blunder.

I like it. Hope you relealse a good chunk of the game in wips before you move on to your next project or three...

Posted: 4/18/2007 2:32 AM

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Comicalflop

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ugh, I blundered yet again. God I hate 1-1! I missed a melon in front of one of the Pak E. Derms, just before the race, fortunately it didn't take me long to go back and redo from there. But damn I hate it when I miss something as obvious as that. this course has so many damn hidden melons it's driving me nuts. I'm wondering how to do the next page however. It'd be a good idea to skip Poochie, because despite tool assistance he'd still slow things down since I'd have to wait for him at the end. However, melon #30 I think is dependent on Poochie reaching to the end (or something else) and I don't want to miss the requirements for it. I made an AVI of me going through in real time collecting all 30 so that I know where they are; but if I skip Poochie I may end up at #30 without it spawning. does anyone know what circumstances must be filled for it to appear? Poochie Route

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Posted: 4/18/2007 9:15 AM

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Wouter_Jansen

Joined: 10/31/2005
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you missed a melon? :p don't you check with some site for all locations of things?

Posted: 4/18/2007 1:48 PM

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Comicalflop

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Yes I check a site, This one written by none other than David "Marshmallow" Gibbons. What had happened is that I've redone the whole thing 3 times, and during the 1st I forgot to get that melon, so in the 2nd I had forgotten also because the starting point was after that, and the 3rd needed to go and fix that. But now I got it, and did a 30 melon check by getting all in the 2nd page (as seen in the Poochie vid I posted) to make sure the maths all worked out. I just need confirmation if #30 can be attained sans Poochie.

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