Topic by pirate_sephiroth

Posted: 10/15/2006 5:29 AM

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pirate_sephiroth

Active player (308)

Joined: 2/28/2006
Posts: 2275
Location: Milky Way -> Earth -> Brazil

The "always drop soul" cheat makes the game think that every value is perfect. And the values are not really static. I tried with the first Axearmor: if I restart a game and beat it for the first time, I always get the soul. If I exit the room , return and then kill him again... I always get nothing!

"Genuine self-esteem, however, consists not of causeless feelings, but of certain knowledge about yourself. It rests on the conviction that you — by your choices, effort and actions — have made yourself into the kind of person able to deal with reality. It is the conviction — based on the evidence of your own volitional functioning — that you are fundamentally able to succeed in life and, therefore, are deserving of that success." - Onkar Ghate

Bisqwit wrote:

Drama, too long, didn't read, lol.

Posted: 10/15/2006 9:03 AM

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Yrr

Joined: 8/10/2006
Posts: 289
Location: Germany, Bayern

Oh, thanks very much! I think this value should help, though, I don't know the algorithm. I think some research could be done, using my/Atma's/pirate_sephiroth's run and compare the memory viewer with the drop soul. But it won't be easy, other values like luck influence drop soul and such too. The random number consists of 8 hexadecimal digits as you can see in the memory viewer. Is this a single number, or does it consist of more different values? (I hope you understand what I want to tell you...) For example the number is 89ABCDEF. Maybe only 89AB does influence soul drop and CDEF item drop. Edit: Coincidence? I damaged the minotaur with the sword. The random value then is exactly the same when using the backdash and also using great armor soul... It seems that backdashing, using great armor for 7 frames and attacking (or damaging an enemy) has the same result concerning to the random number. And yes, when using Killer mantle soul the random number always becomes 3294C45F (a couple of frames after the attack) in my situation, no matter what I did before. I found the value, which makes the minotaur drop his soul: I simply replaced the first two digits by F9, so it's: F9B91963.

Posted: 10/15/2006 4:04 PM

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Hoe

Joined: 7/31/2004
Posts: 183
Location: USA

In an older AoS thread I posted the PRNG code, and the code which calculates if a soul gets dropped or not. If some one figures out the algorithm, feel free to let me know and I'll add it to EmuRead.

Posted: 10/17/2006 3:34 PM

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Yrr

Joined: 8/10/2006
Posts: 289
Location: Germany, Bayern

YEAH! I found a way how to get minotaur's soul, but I need death's soul for it. Do you think I should use it? I found no way to get it with great armor. I hope getting lubicant & ronginus won't be that hard...

Posted: 10/17/2006 3:44 PM

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moozooh

Senior Moderator

Joined: 8/4/2005
Posts: 5770
Location: Away

Do you need Death's soul as in "I need to go back to Death and redo all that comes after that"? Well, it may be worth it if you grab the Lightning Doll soul in the room just before the top. It could save 3-4 seconds in the end, which would compensate for taking and using Death's soul, etc. That would be redoing ~17000 frames, though. Which is, of course, a lot. Are you sure it is easier for you to redo that much than somehow manipulating the minotaur to drop his soul?

Warp wrote:

Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.

Posted: 10/17/2006 5:20 PM

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Zurreco

Former player

Joined: 8/1/2004
Posts: 2687
Location: Seattle, WA

moozooh wrote:

Do you need Death's soul as in "I need to go back to Death and redo all that comes after that"? Well, it may be worth it if you grab the Lightning Doll soul in the room just before the top.

You automatically get Death's soul when you beat him. While it would save time to go back and get Lightning Doll, I wouldn't worry about it now. Just do whatever you can to get the soul with Great Armor and normal dicking around; it shouldn't take too long to eventually get the drop.

hi nitrodon streamline: cyn-chine

Posted: 10/17/2006 5:56 PM

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moozooh

Senior Moderator

Joined: 8/4/2005
Posts: 5770
Location: Away

Ah, right. I forgot that.

Warp wrote:

Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.

Posted: 10/17/2006 8:29 PM

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Zurreco

Former player

Joined: 8/1/2004
Posts: 2687
Location: Seattle, WA

I finally got around to watching your run, Yrr. Let me first say that I am very impressed with all of it. The way you handled most of those encounters was fluid and flawless, and I commend you for it. However, I do have two questions for you. 1) Are you sure that you couldn't have obtained Lightning Doll right before Death? It will save you boatloads of time later on. 2) Why didn't you stop to kill one of the WereJaguars (the purple ones) in the Floating Garden on your way to Clock Tower? They drop Black Belts, which add bonus STR. The time you spend killing and equipping will be saved in every attack you perform after this. Otherwise, keep up the good work.

hi nitrodon streamline: cyn-chine

Posted: 10/18/2006 4:40 AM
(Edited: 10/18/2006 4:46 AM)

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pirate_sephiroth

Active player (308)

Joined: 2/28/2006
Posts: 2275
Location: Milky Way -> Earth -> Brazil

Yrr: About the random number, the least signficant byte doesn't affect the result. About the Minoutaur soul, you should try tp play with the candles in that room, or try to change the length of the backdashes (the size of each little cloud of dust is ramdom). You can try that in the room before that one too. And Lubicant is really hard to get (and Lubicants have 500 HP too). Zurreco: What? Purple Werejaguars inthe Floating Gardens? Maybe they're Werewolves?

"Genuine self-esteem, however, consists not of causeless feelings, but of certain knowledge about yourself. It rests on the conviction that you — by your choices, effort and actions — have made yourself into the kind of person able to deal with reality. It is the conviction — based on the evidence of your own volitional functioning — that you are fundamentally able to succeed in life and, therefore, are deserving of that success." - Onkar Ghate

Bisqwit wrote:

Drama, too long, didn't read, lol.

Posted: 10/18/2006 4:43 AM

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Zurreco

Former player

Joined: 8/1/2004
Posts: 2687
Location: Seattle, WA

pirate_sephiroth wrote:

What? Purple Werejaguars inthe Floating Gardens? Maybe they're Werewolves?

Sure, whatever they are. They drop Black Belts, and Yrr just hops over them. ZURRECO DOES NOT APPROVE.

hi nitrodon streamline: cyn-chine

Posted: 10/18/2006 12:39 PM
(Edited: 10/21/2006 7:38 AM)

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Yrr

Joined: 8/10/2006
Posts: 289
Location: Germany, Bayern

@Zurecco: I don't like to dump the clocktower, underground resevoir and arena part, just to get black belt & lightning doll. So my suggestion, I'll finish this run, and if I feel like to do it, I'll restart the run with collecting those things. @sephiroth: I found to values which give me the soul, E7D5464F and F91ECB30. I got the soul, but it cost my too much time. I toy with the idea not to get that soul at all, especially with final sword, boss fights can be done very fast.

Posted: 10/18/2006 3:33 PM

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pirate_sephiroth

Active player (308)

Joined: 2/28/2006
Posts: 2275
Location: Milky Way -> Earth -> Brazil

I think you can still get that Minotaur soul... When you enter the room (before he sees you) the RNG changes every frame. Even if you change what you do in the previous room a only a little, it might have a notorius effect in the final result.

"Genuine self-esteem, however, consists not of causeless feelings, but of certain knowledge about yourself. It rests on the conviction that you — by your choices, effort and actions — have made yourself into the kind of person able to deal with reality. It is the conviction — based on the evidence of your own volitional functioning — that you are fundamentally able to succeed in life and, therefore, are deserving of that success." - Onkar Ghate

Bisqwit wrote:

Drama, too long, didn't read, lol.

Posted: 10/31/2006 9:11 PM

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Persona

Joined: 4/30/2005
Posts: 19

This isn't related to TASing but is related to AoS so here goes. Does anyone know how the room before graham on this map is possible? It's for Julius BTW. Basically no matter how hard I try, I always fill up 3 blocks instead of 2. Thanks.

Posted: 10/31/2006 9:15 PM

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Zurreco

Former player

Joined: 8/1/2004
Posts: 2687
Location: Seattle, WA

Wild guess: Julius' fade/dash is fast enough to move him at an angle that he won't enter the 2nd or 4th quadrant. That, or he isn't located within the game while faded, so he can't get map collection.

hi nitrodon streamline: cyn-chine

Posted: 11/1/2006 4:12 AM

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pirate_sephiroth

Active player (308)

Joined: 2/28/2006
Posts: 2275
Location: Milky Way -> Earth -> Brazil

Zurreco, it seems he wants to know how to DON'T get the room...

Persona wrote:

I always fill up 3 blocks instead of 2.

Well, you know... Julius is different from Soma. For example, he can't stand on Gorgons without receiving damage.

"Genuine self-esteem, however, consists not of causeless feelings, but of certain knowledge about yourself. It rests on the conviction that you — by your choices, effort and actions — have made yourself into the kind of person able to deal with reality. It is the conviction — based on the evidence of your own volitional functioning — that you are fundamentally able to succeed in life and, therefore, are deserving of that success." - Onkar Ghate

Bisqwit wrote:

Drama, too long, didn't read, lol.

Posted: 11/1/2006 7:35 PM

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Persona

Joined: 4/30/2005
Posts: 19

Hmm okay, I tried fading and it still counts. :x

Posted: 11/1/2006 8:16 PM

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Zurreco

Former player

Joined: 8/1/2004
Posts: 2687
Location: Seattle, WA

pirate_sephiroth wrote:

Zurreco, it seems he wants to know how to DON'T get the room...

You're right; she wants to know how she didn't uncover that portion of the map. Isn't that what I addressed in my post? Whether or not Persona is trying to avoid uncovering it (low%?) isn't really pertinent, though.

hi nitrodon streamline: cyn-chine

Posted: 11/6/2006 8:32 PM

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Persona

Joined: 4/30/2005
Posts: 19

Okay, the guy who did that map made a video. The room before Graham requires frame exact timing, which I'm not gonna try on my GBA SP. :P

Posted: 2/6/2007 6:44 AM

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Tragedy

Joined: 11/13/2006
Posts: 87
Location: California, USA

The topics for this game have been resurrected more than Dracula. OH SNAP. Anyway, is this still being done? EDIT: Cause, you know, if not, I'll make an attempt.

If you see me posting, I'm most likely being a douche. <small>Working on: not ever coming here again</small>

Posted: 2/7/2007 5:43 PM

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pirate_sephiroth

Active player (308)

Joined: 2/28/2006
Posts: 2275
Location: Milky Way -> Earth -> Brazil

Well, where's Yrr?

Tragedy wrote:

Cause, you know, if not, I'll make an attempt.

If you do, don't break the tradition... make another thread!

"Genuine self-esteem, however, consists not of causeless feelings, but of certain knowledge about yourself. It rests on the conviction that you — by your choices, effort and actions — have made yourself into the kind of person able to deal with reality. It is the conviction — based on the evidence of your own volitional functioning — that you are fundamentally able to succeed in life and, therefore, are deserving of that success." - Onkar Ghate

Bisqwit wrote:

Drama, too long, didn't read, lol.

Posted: 2/12/2007 12:12 PM

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Tragedy

Joined: 11/13/2006
Posts: 87
Location: California, USA

I've attempted at least 100 TASes of this game (actually, IT'S OVER NINE THOUSAAAND), and by George (and Maria), I'm actually gonna sit back and wait for someone else! Or I'll make an attempt once I clear up time on my schedule*. *Schedule includes 16 hours of sleep, 6 hours of school (mon-fri), 6 hours of real life (sat-sun), and 2 hours of napping (SLEEPING AND NAPPING ARE DIFFERENT SHUT UP).

If you see me posting, I'm most likely being a douche. <small>Working on: not ever coming here again</small>

Posted: 3/19/2007 1:55 PM

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Yrr

Joined: 8/10/2006
Posts: 289
Location: Germany, Bayern

Actually I am still the person to do that, but the problem is just the school. I try to continue my run hoping I'll complete it in some day. But feel free to try an attempt...

Posted: 4/3/2007 9:41 PM

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