(Link to video)
Submission Text Full Submission Page
Mediafire (<2MB): http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?h9iq6yupa3bvg0a
  • Aims for fastest time (by input)
  • Manipulates luck
Recorded with FCEU 0.98.16, but will work in any version.
I spent a week continuing Acmlm's disassembly and found out how the cards work. After another week, I found the optimal delays for this strategy and manipulated time at the naming screen better to minimize delays.
This movie is about 3 seconds faster than the published version and 1 second faster than hero of the day's trading strategy. Similar to hero's strategy, I use trading, but in a way that is completely unexpected.
I won't give the strategy for suspense. If you really want to see what it is before watching, a near-identical strategy is somewhere on a message I posted at this forum.
What I will say is the following:
  • I found out that using Player 2 was better in terms of minimizing delays.
  • I spend a couple seconds on the naming screen. Why? Using the card searcher program (monopoly.cc) I created, I found out that the desired combination occurs after some 2500 executions of the random function RndFunc1. I also found out that although RndFunc1 usually executes once per frame, the naming screen executes RndFunc1 multiple times, depending on RndCount1, and that pressing A will reset RndCount1.
  • The name I enter isn't just for show. Because pressing A will reset RndCount1, I press A at optimal times, which results in pressing A four times, plus "OK".
  • The delays in the game were minimized with a separate delay searcher program (monopolysolve.cc). It took me a whole week to search the timing of every action in this strategy. I extensively used the (monrngtriv.cc) program to find the "distance" between two random seeds.
  • Interestingly enough, the current source for (monopolysolve.cc) was a result of a lot of tweaking to get the desired result. The delay searcher program accommodates a few different strategies, to increase the chance of a solution turning up. There is a part where I must manipulate three CPU rolls at once, so it would be stupid to try and find it manually. After tweaking to correct a timing error, I found a solution, then tweaked the source a few more times before I was satisfied with the result.
Delays:
cards: 1+136+0 (strategy-dependent here) first turn: 0+3+0 cpu turn: 2 second turn: 15+0 cpu 3 turns: 3+7 (I think)
Source to programs (not very neat): http://rapidshare.de/files/30535975/monopoly_source.zip.html---
See /HomePages/FractalFusion/Source/Monopoly for source.
Thanks to Acmlm for his part of the disassembly.
Enjoy the movie!
adelikat: Accepting for publication. Publishers should note that most people (including me) voted for this run to be published along side of the existing run.
FractalFusion: After a long time of trying to decide, I have decided to cancel this submission for a few reasons:
  • For Monopoly, there isn't much point to fastest input anymore.
    • This submission can be beaten by a less entertaining run by 8 frames.
  • Trading is not a good strategy. Lack of "controlling the CPU" is one factor. Arbitrarily setting the price is another.
  • Most other facets of this run are encompassed or extended by submission #1199.
  • The only thing that really remains is bizarreness. Publishing bizarre sub-1-minute runs is not indicative of what the site's goals should be.
  • Having two Monopoly runs published is also not indicative of what the site's goals should be.

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Posted: 8/25/2006 9:13 AM
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Kles
Joined: 7/28/2005
Posts: 339
Wow... this is incredibly dumb. Thanks for abusing the concept of a TAS officially ending at the last input. Anyways, voted yes but reluctantly.
Posted: 8/25/2006 2:48 PM
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xebra
Joined: 5/3/2004
Posts: 1203
Kles wrote:
Wow... this is incredibly dumb. Thanks for abusing the concept of a TAS officially ending at the last input. Anyways, voted yes but reluctantly.
It's actually double bonded Gannon=ban ironic. Yes, yes, a million times yes!
Posted: 8/25/2006 5:16 PM
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krunkalastic
Joined: 2/28/2006
Posts: 21
I definitely liked this run more than previous Monopoly runs. Were I able to vote, I would vote yes!
Posted: 8/25/2006 5:18 PM
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krunkalastic
Joined: 2/28/2006
Posts: 21
P.S. I think this OUGHT to obsolete the other video. Just my opinion.
Posted: 8/25/2006 5:20 PM
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moozooh
Senior Moderator
Joined: 8/4/2005
Posts: 5777
Location: Away
krunkalastic: Don't forget that you can edit () your posts instead of double posting (which is generally discouraged).
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
Posted: 8/25/2006 9:04 PM
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Bladegash
Former player
Joined: 3/9/2004
Posts: 484
Location: ­­
moozooh wrote:
krunkalastic: Don't forget that you can edit () your posts instead of double posting (which is generally discouraged).
No it's not.
Posted: 8/25/2006 9:54 PM
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FractalFusion
Editor, Expert player (2072)
Joined: 6/15/2005
Posts: 3282
Glitchy TAS of 2013 Gameboy TAS of 2013 PSX TASer of 2010
Bladegash wrote:
No it's not.
It is if you post multiple times within 3 minutes. Even multiple times within an hour is excessive. I think there might be a way to beat this run on time. Instead of rolling the two repair cards, I roll instead the Comm Chest repair card, and the Chance chairman card, which eliminates the need for the 2 second wait. On the other hand, I must raise the trade money to 600-something dollars, and the CPU must be Ollie, and the CPU must roll 1+1 then 6+6, or 6+6 then 1+1, to Chance. Would the resulting run be more entertaining?
Posted: 8/25/2006 10:07 PM
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JXQ
Experienced player (761)
Joined: 5/6/2005
Posts: 3132
NES TAS of 2008 Speedy TAS of 2008 SNES TASer of 2007 TAS of 2007 SNES TAS of 2007 Funny TAS of 2007
I don't understand why this wouldn't obsolete the former run. Runs of this game are to show off luck manipulation, which is all based on when the player inputs what. Once the input is no longer needed, the luck has been manipulated.
<Swordless> Go hug a tree, you vegetarian (I bet you really are one)
Posted: 8/26/2006 12:40 AM
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xebra
Joined: 5/3/2004
Posts: 1203
Having both videos neatly bypasses the issue of whether it's better to make the game end more quickly even if it requires more input from the user. Also, the two videos are strategically different and are both interesting.
Posted: 8/26/2006 2:10 AM
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JXQ
Experienced player (761)
Joined: 5/6/2005
Posts: 3132
NES TAS of 2008 Speedy TAS of 2008 SNES TASer of 2007 TAS of 2007 SNES TAS of 2007 Funny TAS of 2007
You can't bypass that issue forever!
<Swordless> Go hug a tree, you vegetarian (I bet you really are one)
Posted: 8/26/2006 2:35 AM
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xebra
Joined: 5/3/2004
Posts: 1203
Till the day I die.
Posted: 8/26/2006 3:03 AM
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kwinse
Joined: 5/13/2006
Posts: 283
... wow, totally unexpected TAS. Yes vote, and I agree that this should not obsolete the existing run.
<Zurreco> if so called professional players cant adapt to every playing field, theyre obviously not that great
Posted: 8/26/2006 6:13 AM
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FractalFusion
Editor, Expert player (2072)
Joined: 6/15/2005
Posts: 3282
Glitchy TAS of 2013 Gameboy TAS of 2013 PSX TASer of 2010
Would the goals have to change? Possibly I could put "is a demonstration". Leaving "fastest time (input)" as is means the run could be obsoleted by a faster-input run that is not as entertaining.
xebra wrote:
Having both videos neatly bypasses the issue of whether it's better to make the game end more quickly even if it requires more input from the user. Also, the two videos are strategically different and are both interesting.
The thing is, if fastest time to bankrupt the CPU is considered, hero of the day's mortgage trade goof strategy, modified to use the CPU Ollie and trade all the money at once, would be the fastest, I think. It's quite bizarre when you first watch it, but it doesn't really offer much for entertainment value after that. Here's the monopoly thread, with hero's 28s movie: http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=935
Posted: 8/26/2006 3:01 PM
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DonamerDragon
Player (105)
Joined: 6/7/2005
Posts: 290
Location: New York
That's pretty awesome, I thought for sure that wasn't possible, but yet you did it. Great job!
Soft Blue Dragon
Posted: 8/27/2006 4:11 AM
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OmegaWarrior
Joined: 2/27/2006
Posts: 29
I'm voting yes, not because it was an entertaining movie, but because I thought that your strategy was very clever and I always love it when a TASer disects the code to find new and amazing strategies.
Posted: 8/27/2006 6:42 AM
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Heisanevilgenius
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Joined: 3/22/2006
Posts: 708
Funny TAS of 2009 Innovative TAS of 2009
JXQ wrote:
I don't understand why this wouldn't obsolete the former run. Runs of this game are to show off luck manipulation, which is all based on when the player inputs what. Once the input is no longer needed, the luck has been manipulated.
I say it shouldn't obsolete the former run because, although the input ends earlier, the computer player takes longer to bankrupt. It's faster... but it's not. The original is entertaining because the computer is bankrupted insanely fast. This is entertaining because the computer eventually bankrupts themselves. They're fun for very different reasons. If anything, I think I prefer the original.
Posted: 8/28/2006 2:33 AM
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krunkalastic
Joined: 2/28/2006
Posts: 21
Sorry about the double post, and thank you for the reminder. I see the arguments about it obsoleting/not obsoleting the pre-existing run...I suppose I didn't consider the strategy differences as a condition for not obsoleting the run. I am going to pull a Switzerland and be neutral on this one.
Posted: 9/2/2006 6:43 PM
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MrManNo1
Joined: 7/30/2006
Posts: 43
Location: New York
It's a good movie, but I think that the old video should be used, as I don't find it to be fair that the new video is shorter, but only because the computer was manipulated into going bankrupt a few rolls of the dice after the video stopped. I think that the length of the AVI should be used to determine the time of the game, not the length of the movie file. However, I know most people disagree with me, so I guess I'll say that this movie should be put on as a second Monopoly run.
Posted: 9/2/2006 10:13 PM
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FractalFusion
Editor, Expert player (2072)
Joined: 6/15/2005
Posts: 3282
Glitchy TAS of 2013 Gameboy TAS of 2013 PSX TASer of 2010
MrManNo1 wrote:
I think that the length of the AVI should be used to determine the time of the game, not the length of the movie file.
If by length of AVI you mean fastest time that the CPU goes bankrupt, here it is, in 35s: http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1822/monopolymortgagetrade.fcm Could probably be improved by delay search, but it is not entertaining enough to warrant. I have managed to beat this submission by 8 frames using the strategy in my first post in this thread, but I decided not to submit it (I didn't even complete it yet) because it is no more entertaining than this submission and is less interesting (although it is certainly more interesting than the 35s bankruptcy). Edit: I almost forgot to mention this. I successfully produced a movie that bankrupts two CPUs over four rolls after input. It looks horrid at the moment, but it works.
Posted: 9/3/2006 12:33 AM
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MrManNo1
Joined: 7/30/2006
Posts: 43
Location: New York
FractalFusion wrote:
If by length of AVI you mean fastest time that the CPU goes bankrupt, here it is, in 35s: http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1822/monopolymortgagetrade.fcm
I actually enjoyed that movie more than the one you published. I don't see why one of your movies couldn't be published along side the existing one as they are different strategies.
Posted: 9/3/2006 12:39 AM
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moozooh
Senior Moderator
Joined: 8/4/2005
Posts: 5777
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I think FF's movie should obsolete the existing one based on the input length, and have this link in the description with the respective note.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
Posted: 9/3/2006 2:00 AM
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Heisanevilgenius
Active player (406)
Joined: 3/22/2006
Posts: 708
Funny TAS of 2009 Innovative TAS of 2009
Well, I'm sure the whole server will come crumbling down in dust and small pieces if we have two Monopoly movies.
Posted: 9/3/2006 2:26 AM
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atro_city
Active player (255)
Joined: 4/24/2005
Posts: 476
Absolutely. Who could ever suggest such madness?
[URL=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IcuV2JdaBYY]Streets of Rage 3 (2 players)[/url]
Posted: 9/3/2006 2:56 AM
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Bag_of_Magic_Food
He/Him
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Posts: 5712
Ever'body ever'where
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
Posted: 9/20/2006 10:36 AM
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Bisqwit
Editor, Active player (297)
Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 7469
Location: Arzareth
I am with JXQ with this; I don't think two movies should be kept at the same time. (The demonstration movie excluded.)
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