Topic by N._Harmonik

Posted: 8/27/2006 11:16 PM

Post subject: Request: Pokémon Mystery Dungeon

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N._Harmonik

She/Her

Joined: 8/27/2006
Posts: 502
Location: Canada

Since the English version's about to be released, I thought I'd put up a request for this game. There're two versions; Red Rescue Team for Game Boy Advance and Blue Rescue Team for Nintendo DS. But of course, since we don't have a properly working Nintendo DS emulator yet, that means whoever decides to do this will have to use the former. Let's see, you have to manipulate the questions at the beginning to get the best starter (and possibly the best first partner too). Throughout the game, you have to choose which Pokémon are necessary for your team to advance and which missions are a must for getting through to the end credits at least.

Why, oh, why do I even try to understand my own species?

Posted: 8/27/2006 11:28 PM

Post subject: Re: Request: Pokémon Mystery Dungeon

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Zurreco

Former player

Joined: 8/1/2004
Posts: 2687
Location: Seattle, WA

N. Harmonik wrote:

Since the English version's about to be released, I thought I'd put up a request for this game.

Let me get this straight: you're requesting a run for a game that hasn't even been released world-wide? What is the huge rush?

hi nitrodon streamline: cyn-chine

Posted: 8/27/2006 11:45 PM

Post subject: Re: Request: Pokémon Mystery Dungeon

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N._Harmonik

She/Her

Joined: 8/27/2006
Posts: 502
Location: Canada

Zurreco wrote:

Let me get this straight: you're requesting a run for a game that hasn't even been released world-wide? What is the huge rush?

Eh heh heh... (curls into a tight ball from embarassment) Good point. I guess you could practise on the Japanese version though.

Why, oh, why do I even try to understand my own species?

Posted: 8/28/2006 12:26 PM

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Xaphan

Former player

Joined: 5/24/2005
Posts: 405
Location: France

Hmmm... I don't know if you have the time, but why wouldn't you try to do a run for this game yourself... It's not animosity, though, you should try to run through the game... Let me explain... If you try and post WIP here, some people might get interested in this game and continue on or help you... I do not know this game... but as it's a Pokemon game it must be quite long and not so easy... I hope you get my point here... i did not want to be mean... ;)

Not dead yet... still very busy... damn...

Posted: 8/29/2006 7:21 AM

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KaitouKid

Former player

Joined: 6/6/2005
Posts: 384

Zurreco's the resident dick when I'm not around. Don't mind him.

Posted: 8/29/2006 7:22 AM

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Zurreco

Former player

Joined: 8/1/2004
Posts: 2687
Location: Seattle, WA

KaitouKid wrote:

Zurreco's the resident dick when I'm not around. Don't mind him.

Gotta fill the quotas, partner. Seriously, though. Why plan for a game that most people haven't had the chance to even play yet?

hi nitrodon streamline: cyn-chine

Posted: 8/29/2006 11:54 AM

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N._Harmonik

She/Her

Joined: 8/27/2006
Posts: 502
Location: Canada

Xaphan wrote:

Hmmm... I don't know if you have the time, but why wouldn't you try to do a run for this game yourself... It's not animosity, though, you should try to run through the game... Let me explain... If you try and post WIP here, some people might get interested in this game and continue on or help you... I do not know this game... but as it's a Pokemon game it must be quite long and not so easy... I hope you get my point here... i did not want to be mean... ;)

Well, I'm not sure I have enough time... Besides, I have almost no experience with speedruns aside from watching them and knowing what frame advance, save states and all the other stuff are.

Why, oh, why do I even try to understand my own species?

Posted: 8/29/2006 4:21 PM

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Shadow_Byrn

Joined: 3/16/2006
Posts: 289

I'm about the same as you but I'm getting myself psyced up (out?) to take on Shining Force!

I am just a silhouette, a silhouette of a memory of a solitary night .. nothing more.

Posted: 8/30/2006 6:47 PM

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N._Harmonik

She/Her

Joined: 8/27/2006
Posts: 502
Location: Canada

Shadow Byrn wrote:

I'm about the same as you but I'm getting myself psyced up (out?) to take on Shining Force!

Hmmm... good point... I think.

Why, oh, why do I even try to understand my own species?

Posted: 9/9/2006 10:22 AM

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Rat

Joined: 7/17/2005
Posts: 23

I know it's still early, but I've been fudging with the rom and found out how to manipulate whether or not a wild Pokemon joins your team. :D This is handy for getting strong rare Pokemon with a low recruit rate. Snorlax, for example(Belly Drum+any physical attack=boss rape). When fighting a wild Pokemon, how effective your attack will be is predetermined before you do it--whether you use the neutral attack or one of your four moves--whether they'll hit, crit, or miss is already decided before you use them. If you savestate and use Water Gun and it misses, then when you reload state and choose a different attack, that'll miss too, and so will the others, while the action the enemy chooses remains the same for that turn(same for your partners). To change up the order, you move to a different square; the enemy usually does something different on that turn instead. So, if you're trying to recruit the foe, just reload, change your position, and try again. Item use might also change the order, but it could really depend on the item. If all your moves are missing that turn, an attack item might not. Also, I'm a novice at this and don't do any real TASing, but I'm hoping it might help anyone wanting to do a run on this in the near future. The English version comes out in a little over a week.

+_+

Posted: 9/16/2006 11:23 PM

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Teirusu

Joined: 9/16/2006
Posts: 1

Hi there, long time TAS viewer, first time poster. I think the real nightmare in trying to pull off a TAS of this game is going to be optimizing the randomized dungeons. First you have to make the decision of wether or not you want to obtain an item, recruit a specific pokemon, or simply get off the current floor. Then you've gotta luck manipulate the floor into making the task quicker (IE: Putting your goal right next to you.), which is the most difficult part. After doing some tests, I'm lead to believe that the entire dungeon is generated as you enter the first floor. I think you may need to have some very extensive knowledge of memory reading and knowing what values generate what parts of the floor before you can even begin to optimize the dungeons themselves. Of course, you also have to make the decision wether to spend your time fighting and leveling, and since you have to fight bosses eventually, and your partner is as smart as a brick (And if they die the mission ends as if you died). Luck manipulation can take you far, but you have to take the partner's actions into consideration, as well, as they don't run from enemies, even if you do. I'd love to shake the hand of the person who could pull off an optimized Mystery Dungeon TAS. I think it may be quite a while before we start seeing some nice attempts at it, though, due to the havily randomized nature of the game's dungeons. There are some guides on GameFAQs that have item drop locations/rates, pokemon locations, etc. So if you realy wanted to (and had the in-game memory knowledge) you could pull this off. It would take a lot of hard work and dedication, though.

Posted: 9/17/2006 12:30 AM

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subanark

Joined: 2/8/2006
Posts: 60

If you want a harder game to optimize that is really boring to watch try Monster Gate.

Posted: 9/17/2006 12:36 AM

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Mukki

Skilled player (1090)

Joined: 8/26/2006
Posts: 1139
Location: United Kingdom

The idea of TASing a game that isn't globally released is bad because -- 1) Most won't have played it and so entertainment value is lowered. 2) It will probably get obsoleted quickly. Once the game is released glitches and tricks will be discovered soon after. I'd leave this for a while.

http://tasvideos.org/Mukki.html

Posted: 9/17/2006 6:23 AM

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KDR_11k

Joined: 1/23/2006
Posts: 352
Location: Germany

Megaman Zero 4 was TASed before the international release but asking for a game to be TASed when there's not even a non-rerecording emulator available...

Posted: 9/17/2006 1:48 PM

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N._Harmonik

She/Her

Joined: 8/27/2006
Posts: 502
Location: Canada

KDR_11k wrote:

Megaman Zero 4 was TASed before the international release but asking for a game to be TASed when there's not even a non-rerecording emulator available...

You just contradicted yourself. Megaman Zero 4 is for the Game Boy Advance. So is Pokémon Mystery Dungeon: Red Rescue Team. So people should be able to TAS it.

Why, oh, why do I even try to understand my own species?

Posted: 9/17/2006 3:15 PM

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Mukki

Skilled player (1090)

Joined: 8/26/2006
Posts: 1139
Location: United Kingdom

KDR_11k wrote:

but asking for a game to be TASed when there's not even a non-rerecording emulator available...

It isn't the DS version that is being requested, it is the GBA version. Even then I'd avoid it. Megaman and Pokemon are two very different games. Megaman games have been reasonably similar for years (and in no bad way) and being a platform game it is usually easier to TAS. However, look at the previous Pokemon TASes, these have been done with extensive study of the game's engine. So much so that even the name of the player influences and manipulates glitches in the game. Tell me, does anyone REALLY have the knowledge of this game that has not even been realeased to produce a worthwhile TAS to sit alongside the others???

http://tasvideos.org/Mukki.html

Posted: 9/18/2006 4:12 PM

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Rat

Joined: 7/17/2005
Posts: 23

Good points, but the game gets released in the US today. :P There's already a bunch of knowledge down on various sites about this game, so as far as I can see, all it comes down to as to whether someone'll TAS this or not is is if the recorded result has any kind of watchability. I know I'd like it, since I've played the game before and know how stuff works, but as for those just watching and otherwise not familiar to in-game, I'm not so sure. As for comparing this to past Pokemon TASes, you can't really, because of the game engines being so different(if that's the right thing to say), because this is a "mysterious dungeon"-type game. The random generator decides things much further ahead, you can use more than a single move in one turn if you fuse them together, the Pokemon's level-up stats are completely different. You can't really say a TAS of Pokemon Mysterious Dungeon is going to be anywhere similar to a TAS of the main series.

+_+

Posted: 9/18/2006 5:08 PM

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Mukki

Skilled player (1090)

Joined: 8/26/2006
Posts: 1139
Location: United Kingdom

From the sounds of it the dungeons are randomly generated and so can probably be influenced by luck manipulation and so it would be interesting to see how the player uses this to his/her advantage.

http://tasvideos.org/Mukki.html

Posted: 9/19/2006 11:36 AM

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Xaphan

Former player

Joined: 5/24/2005
Posts: 405
Location: France

KDR_11k wrote:

Megaman Zero 4 was TASed before the international release but asking for a game to be TASed when there's not even a non-rerecording emulator available...

The fact is that I did not need to speak Japanese to TAS (or NATE if you prefer :P) RMZ4... It's a game that had 3 prequels and the game system did not change in RMZ4... Moreover MMZero is a series that is quite well known so it might have interested quite a bunch a people when i did my run... and I stress the point that I wasn't the first one to try a run for it, Iriasu was the one to give me the idea. Though I know of the basics of Pokemon games, I guess that Mystery Dungeon is not like the other ones. Though I fear that a run for Mystery Dungeon in japanese won't interest people that much because it's not so well known as RMZ4 was and it's a new gameplay (i guess) so in japanese it might be as fun to watch as a RMZ4 TAS.

Not dead yet... still very busy... damn...

Posted: 9/20/2006 9:29 PM

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LagDotCom

Joined: 3/7/2006
Posts: 720
Location: UK

Been playing this all day (yes, in English...). Seems like it would be no less boring than say, Secret of Mana, and hell on earth to plan for. I don't think a TAS should be planned until some serious research on the randomness/item effects is done. Reminds me of those months spent playing NetHack...

Voted NO for NO reason

Posted: 9/21/2006 1:53 AM

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JSmith

Joined: 8/1/2006
Posts: 428

LagDotCom wrote:

Reminds me of those months spent playing NetHack...

You weren't using savestates, I hope! Although you probably were using frame advance...

Trying 127.0.0.1... telnet: connect to address 127.0.0.1: Connection refused telnet: Unable to connect to remote host

Posted: 9/21/2006 8:06 AM

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pirate_sephiroth

Active player (308)

Joined: 2/28/2006
Posts: 2275
Location: Milky Way -> Earth -> Brazil

LagDotCom wrote:

Been playing this all day (yes, in English...).

Yeah, the game has already been dumped. Now let's find a bold one for the task...

"Genuine self-esteem, however, consists not of causeless feelings, but of certain knowledge about yourself. It rests on the conviction that you — by your choices, effort and actions — have made yourself into the kind of person able to deal with reality. It is the conviction — based on the evidence of your own volitional functioning — that you are fundamentally able to succeed in life and, therefore, are deserving of that success." - Onkar Ghate

Bisqwit wrote:

Drama, too long, didn't read, lol.

Posted: 9/21/2006 9:48 AM

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Kitsune

Joined: 4/29/2005
Posts: 1212

I've been playing this game since yesterday since getting the Rom. And I have to say, that I am LOVING this game. The Conventional Pokémon games were starting to get boring with all of that traveling around and fighting trainers all the time. It's very refreshing to the Genre.

Posted: 9/22/2006 12:41 AM

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Rat

Joined: 7/17/2005
Posts: 23

I've been playing the game on and off since the Japanese versions were dumped last year. XD I don't really have anything to add from a TAS standpoint, and giving out gameplay info would probably be redundant(unless it's something not that obvious), so I'll just ask this: would a TAS of this run just to the credits, or through the other half of the game past the credits where evolution, 99-floor dungeons, legendary recruits, etc. open up? Since the 99-floor dungeons are a long pain in the ass(especially when they reduce you to level 1!), I figure just finishing the main plot and getting to the credits would be acceptable enough. I still suggest Snorlax in the main party, if a potential TAS will have any new recruits beyond the starter and his partner at all.

+_+

Posted: 9/22/2006 5:47 AM

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Kitsune

Joined: 4/29/2005
Posts: 1212

After playing this game so much, I only have one Question. At any point, will the two main Pokémon ever Evolve at all? So far I have Eevee at 19, and Charmander at 20. I am hoping to get Eevee to Espeon. I am really hoping they can evolve..