That method of gliding into the boss doesn't actually put you in a position you can't get to by jumping up there and starting/canceling a glide. The only reason it worked in that movie is that it somehow caused the boss to not start moving up when it normally does. Weird...
You still did that slow thing in Marble Garden 2 at around 30 seconds in. If you jump from the spindash, then glide on the right frame and immediately cancel and hold right, you'll land on the upper slope under the pulley. You can spin dash immediately upon landing then continue as normal, saving at least 100 frames.
Err, I'm not still doing that slow thing in MG2. Haven't been since I posted the "Marble Garden" complete wip.
Unless I accidentally hexed the wrong set of input in after the end of HC2.
Did the WIP you watched that did that also defeat Sonic's MG2 Boss?
How fleeting are all human passions compared with the massive continuity of ducks.
I didn't mean the glide turnaround, I meant going below where you're trying to get to then jumping up there.
In your WIP "UpthornS3KWipV3_IceCap.gmv", I see you doing this: mg2_1.png
then falling below, instead of this: mg2_2.png
I didn't mean the glide turnaround, I meant going below where you're trying to get to then jumping up there.
In your WIP "UpthornS3KWipV3_IceCap.gmv", I see you doing this:
then falling below, instead of this:
Ohhhhh. I'll fix that as soon as I'm done redoing HC2 again.
How fleeting are all human passions compared with the massive continuity of ducks.
You mean the one that SprintGod uses?
Because gravity weighs more on Knuckles than on Sonic, he loses speed on the uphill slightly faster than Sonic.
Because of this, I was unable to duplicate either the velocity or the subpixel position that SprintGod has when he performs it.
Interestingly enough, though, I have the correct speed and subpixel position to initiate zipping on the ramp after those loops, and while zipping from that location is useless, jumping on the first frame allows me to move forward through the floor, enabling the jump I do there.
If you mean the wall zipping glitch that I use in Marble Garden 2 and Launch Base 1, it's because in every concievable location to perform the glitch,
a) I could not become embedded in a wall
b) Zipping either killed me or trapped me in a hollow square
or
c) Getting to the zipping location took more time than it saved.
How fleeting are all human passions compared with the massive continuity of ducks.
I missed that because I was already working on the other fixes you suggested when you edited that bit in.
I'll do that zip glitch at some point, but I'm kind of sick of redoing Hydrocity, so it will probably be a WIP or two down the line.
How're Marble Garden and Carnival Night looking?
How fleeting are all human passions compared with the massive continuity of ducks.
Marble Garden 1: (listed by frame numbers in BakUpthornS3KWipV3.gmv)
47022: Why do you glide and cancel here to turn around, instead of simply tapping left for 1 frame? You're already stopped at a wall.
50925: It's at least 7 frames faster to jump over those spikes from below instead of stopping at them first.
51194: Rolling here instead of running slowed you down.
51388, 51517: Should start gliding a few frames earlier, because Super Knuckles climbs so fast.
several: Should hold up at the same time as jumping from the wall because it makes you jump from slightly higher.
52210: You can make the top move much faster by timing it differently.
52477: Rolling here and jumping at the next angle change would be faster.
52662: Should start gliding to the boss much earlier than you do, because of the way gliding accelerates and the low speed you have to go through that section at anyway. At least 20 frames faster is possible (and the boss glitch still happens).
Having some playback problems here. Witch rom are you using? Anything else I should know about the playback of this movie? Using gens-movie-9j. Any help most welcome.
Just tested and movie plays back on:
Sonic and Knuckles Sonic 3 (JUE) [b1] and
Sonic and Knuckles Sonic 3 (W) [!].
Make sure you don't right click and save as on those links, you have to follow the link to get to the download page and right click and save the link there.
edit: and by link I mean the movie links. sorry for any confusion. just tryin to keep my post short and to the point. as i read it, noone was asking for rom links, just what rom it plays on, so i listed 2 i tested and pointed out a problem some people have downloading the gmvs from microstorage.
Having some playback problems here. Witch rom are you using? Anything else I should know about the playback of this movie? Using gens-movie-9j. Any help most welcome.
Sonic and Knuckles & Sonic 3 (W) [!].bin
Also known as
Sonic 3 & Knuckles (W) [!].smd
If you have (JUE) where I have (W), that should also be okay.
Edit:
Dustin: oh, ok.
How fleeting are all human passions compared with the massive continuity of ducks.
Marble Garden 1: (listed by frame numbers in BakUpthornS3KWipV3.gmv)
Woops, that link was supposed to say UpthornS3KWipV3_LaunchBase.gmv
[*]47022: Why do you glide and cancel here to turn around, instead of simply tapping left for 1 frame? You're already stopped at a wall.
Glide canceling like that gets me four pixels away from the wall, for a slightly faster exit time. I'm not sure if it actually saves any time, but I tested to make sure that the glide-cancel spindash left begins on the same frame that turning around would be able to.
[*]50925: It's at least 7 frames faster to jump over those spikes from below instead of stopping at them first.
I must admit I wasn't overly rigorous in my testing at that point. I was pretty tired when I finished the special stage and just wanted to finish the act before sleep.
[*]51194: Rolling here instead of running slowed you down.
No it doesn't. But not jumping after I start rolling does.
[*]51388, 51517: Should start gliding a few frames earlier, because Super Knuckles climbs so fast.
51388 is no longer applicable because I now have a better jump.
Okay.
[*]several: Should hold up at the same time as jumping from the wall because it makes you jump from slightly higher.
I never realized this until I tested it in Launch Base. I realize you were doing it in the HC1 demo about how to get over the fans faster, but you continued holding up long after you began to glide, so I wasn't sure whether it was for the glide or the jump.
[*]52210: You can make the top move much faster by timing it differently.
Yeah, I was noticing that as I watched one of my old wips that didn't start holding left as soon as possible.
[*]52477: Rolling here and jumping at the next angle change would be faster.
Right, again.
[*]52662: Should start gliding to the boss much earlier than you do, because of the way gliding accelerates and the low speed you have to go through that section at anyway. At least 20 frames faster is possible (and the boss glitch still happens).
This didn't occur to me.
Thanks.
How about MGZ2, since redoing MGZ1 has caused some desyncs here, you might as well lay those on me now.
How fleeting are all human passions compared with the massive continuity of ducks.
[*]51194: Rolling here instead of running slowed you down.
No it doesn't. But not jumping after I start rolling does.
Are we talking about the same place? Speed going off edge after rolling, which you had: 4096. Speed if you roll then jump: 3890. Running: 4159.
upthorn wrote:
[*]52210: You can make the top move much faster by timing it differently.
Yeah, I was noticing that as I watched one of my old wips that didn't start holding left as soon as possible.
I don't know if "as soon as possible" has much to do with it. Sometimes the top moves 50% faster when it hits the ground, it seemed random.
upthorn wrote:
How about MGZ2, since redoing MGZ1 has caused some desyncs here, you might as well lay those on me now.
Marble Garden 2:
54913: If you jump at the last part of the uphill slope here and hold left, you'll go higher than the ring monitor there, allowing you to glide right and bounce off of the monitor. The optimal jump height and time to glide depends on where that spiked ball is, but it's possible to glide exactly level with the edge, or get caught in-between the edge and the spiked ball (knocking you to the right). Going entirely over where the spiked ball can go is also possible, but probably slower.
55274: Since you can't stop quickly here, it's faster to glide at the earliest moment that will make you hit the platform, then immediately glide again to the right, and spin dash from there.
55344: Stopping to spindash here probably isn't worth it (going by the number of frames it takes to hit the spring). Especially if you make the previous change.
56100: Another place where climbing (~15 frames) earlier would be faster.
57931: It's faster (by 14+ frames) to run and do the spin dash on the ground, then jump or glide to the higher platform while it's still rising.
Boss: At the start of the fight, you can jump from the left side of the screen and jump again on the slight uphill slope on the right side, then go left after hitting the edge of the screen, to get in a position where a glide cancel lets you bounce repeatedly on the boss. It doesn't save any time, but it doesn't lose any either (as long as you refrain from bouncing more than necessary) and is probably more stylish.
Carnival Night 1:
51095: You can hold left for 2 frames then jump to land on the platform running, and take out all 3 monitors in a single jump that puts you right back on the platform again at the same high speed.
62294: You can hold right here and glide-bounce off of the bat to get a large upward boost, enough to avoid doing any climbing at all. It saves at least 9 frames.
Carnival Night 2:
Have you considered hitting the signpost from the previous act to get the timed objects in this act into better positions?
I've redone MGZ2 so that all of those suggestions are either implemented, or no longer relevant.
As for Carnival Night
nitsuja wrote:
Carnival Night 1:[*]51095: You can hold left for 2 frames then jump to land on the platform running, and take out all 3 monitors in a single jump that puts you right back on the platform again at the same high speed.
I actually tried this (landing on the platform running), and it took about 4 frames longer to get to the position I spindash down the hill from. When you tried this how many frames did it actually save?
[*]62294: You can hold right here and glide-bounce off of the bat to get a large upward boost, enough to avoid doing any climbing at all. It saves at least 9 frames.
Carnival Night 2:
Have you considered hitting the signpost from the previous act to get the timed objects in this act into better positions?
The barrel I stop for isn't timed. It's position is reset when I hit the boost tunnel so that I have to wait for it no matter when I get there.
And the positioning on the rotating sets of bumper spheres is better than it was on any other attempt.
Edit: As for playing with the sign, in Hydrocity 1 I played with the signpost where it didn't actually add any frames to the length of the movie. If I improve CN1 and then play with the sign, I'll be adding at least 60 frames of real-time length over the unimproved CN1. If I improve CN1 and then redo CN2, I'll be adding about 20 frames of in-game time length. So unless there's some new glitch discovered which cuts multiple seconds off CN1, any improvements here will probably be lost, and then some in CN2.
So,
Nitsuja:
How's Ice Cap looking?
Anyone who has an opinion:
There's a glitch I can reproduce fairly easily at the end of Mushroom Hill zone 1 which causes Mushroom Hill 2's music not to load -- at least until getting a giant ring. Should I do this, or should I avoid doing this?
How fleeting are all human passions compared with the massive continuity of ducks.
I actually tried this (landing on the platform running), and it took about 4 frames longer to get to the position I spindash down the hill from. When you tried this how many frames did it actually save?
I thought it would save more, but it only saved 4 frames by the time of reaching that spinning light pole after the balloons. The spin dash started earlier than you did it, slightly on the uphill a few frames after going Super.
Ice cap and most of Launch Base looked good to me but I'll take a closer look later.
upthorn wrote:
There's a glitch I can reproduce fairly easily at the end of Mushroom Hill zone 1 which causes Mushroom Hill 2's music not to load -- at least until getting a giant ring. Should I do this, or should I avoid doing this?
I'd do it if it doesn't waste any time and the intro to the Mushroom Hill 2 music doesn't sound better than the continuing of Mushroom Hill 1's music, or if it saves time.
By the way, upthorn, are there any levels in particular that you could use maps on, ones that include rings/monitors/enemies/platforms instead of those crappy ones that are currently at TSC? They look like this, except less blurry (I was using too much filtering in that attempt).
There's a glitch I can reproduce fairly easily at the end of Mushroom Hill zone 1 which causes Mushroom Hill 2's music not to load -- at least until getting a giant ring. Should I do this, or should I avoid doing this?
I'd do it if it doesn't waste any time and the intro to the Mushroom Hill 2 music doesn't sound better than the continuing of Mushroom Hill 1's music, or if it saves time.
It doesn't cost any time, but it doesn't save any time either.
It could probably be hexedited out simply by changing one frame from DDFFFF to F7FFFF without causing any desyncs.
nitsuja wrote:
By the way, upthorn, are there any levels in particular that you could use maps on, ones that include rings/monitors/enemies/platforms instead of those crappy ones that are currently at TSC? They look like this, except less blurry (I was using too much filtering in that attempt).
Flying Battery (both)
Sandopolis 2,
Lava Reef 1
How did you make that, by the way?
How fleeting are all human passions compared with the massive continuity of ducks.
Mushroom Hill complete. New WIP at http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/2227/UpthornS3KWipV3_MushroomHill.gmv
If you don't like the "no music" glitch let me know, and I'll edit it out from the next version.
Currently, the Super Emerald special stages (except the first one) are direct copies from the prior versions. Improvements to these are coming, so feel free to fast forward.
How fleeting are all human passions compared with the massive continuity of ducks.
Christ!
I thought you browsed through some ROM hacking guides and wrote an app to do that, or something.
Thank you so much.
Oh, and I retract my request for Sandopolis 2. I don't even want to think about the logistics necessary to make one of those collages on a level which wraps.
How fleeting are all human passions compared with the massive continuity of ducks.
The Angel Island 1 map has two visible appearances of the Sonic sprite that probably shouldn't be there: one at the start of act 1 and one after the transition to the act 2 map (at the miniboss cutscene). Can those be cut out?
I'm sure they can, but it's not like they're obscuring anything, or otherwise hindering the usability of the map. I mean, hey, I didn't even notice them until you pointed them out. And even I had to look for them.
How fleeting are all human passions compared with the massive continuity of ducks.
Here's Flying Battery 2. I took less care about this one, so you might notice some problems like enemies being cut in half or duplicated.
And I didn't describe in enough detail... I use the emulator to adjust the camera position, keep track of where in the image each screenshot should be inserted, and do the image scaling. So I'm not doing all that much per screenshot, but it can't be fully automated for many reasons. (Sprite loading zones, incorrect tile graphics if the camera moves too fast or the game lagged while it was moving, water height changing, moving platforms/objects/enemies that cross screen boundaries, big ring animation, overlays that vanish when the character goes behind them, instant death zones, game crashing zones, and forced scrolling areas.)
Vertically wrapping levels shouldn't be much harder to do than normal ones. Although Sandopolis 2 is by far the widest level in the game, and I might have to worry about those ghosts getting in the screenshots depending on how they are triggered.
Mr. Pwnage wrote:
The Angel Island 1 map has two visible appearances of the Sonic sprite that probably shouldn't be there: one at the start of act 1 and one after the transition to the act 2 map (at the miniboss cutscene). Can those be cut out?
They could easily be cut out, but I left them there on purpose as icons to indicate the starting positions. It wasn't convenient to do that in Flying Battery 1 because Sonic needs to be in one of those tubes to switch the graphics to show the insides.
Ah. I was thinking it probably could be entirely automated if the emulation "middle-man" were cut out, and levels were read directly from the ROM image.
Of course, that would entail writing routines to render the sprites onto the landscape, which could be fairly complex. But once written could probably be easily adapted to work with Sonic 1, Sonic 2, or Sonic 3 alone.
How fleeting are all human passions compared with the massive continuity of ducks.
then falling below, instead of this:
