Topic by Deign

Posted: 9/26/2006 6:53 PM

Post subject: ToeJam & Earl in Panic on Funkotron

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Deign

Active player (435)

Joined: 7/23/2006
Posts: 389
Location: Washington

This is in no way a comprehensive TAS. I only spent about an hour and a half on this, and it is only the first level. I just kind of made this for a handful of reasons. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/2117/ToeJamAndEarl2.gmv 1. Wanted to test out working with the GENS emulator. a. Didn't like it too much. 2. In hopes that someone may find this poor atempt at a TAS interesting enough to warrent someone working on a real one. a. ??? Find out the answer to this in time. 3. To see if the game itself would be interesting enough for a TAS. a. ??? Find out this answer also soon enough. 4. I was bored at work. 5. Wanted to see if the game would be quicker using both ToeJam and Earl or just using one of them. a. I think if I had put more work into this, it would have definately been more easily shown that using both does indeed make it quicker. However it would reveal itself more when more enemies are around. 6. Wanted to test if using funk moves was faster than running. a. Turns out running and funk moves ends up being the same speed if you have room to pick up speed and just straight run. Jumping does slow you down a little but not too much. I suppose when I'm finished with working on Metroid Fusion, and if there's a "better" version of GENS for movie making I may decide to tackle this. But that would be a long ways from now

I'm sciencing as fast as I can ! ______________________________________ <adelikat> once more balls enter the picture, everything gets a lot more entertraining <adelikat> mmmmm yummy penises

Posted: 9/26/2006 6:56 PM

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LagDotCom

Joined: 3/7/2006
Posts: 720
Location: UK

I hope someone takes this up, this is definitely one of my favourite games around. I would suggest using spare Panic Buttons to run faster than normal (you can activate them with X, Y or Z, I forget which). You can also luck-manipulate monsters to run towards you and stuff, I guess. Using the jumping above and rapid dropping jars attack should be the fastest way of grabbing humans.

Voted NO for NO reason

Posted: 9/27/2006 7:56 AM

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Deign

Active player (435)

Joined: 7/23/2006
Posts: 389
Location: Washington

I just realized, this movie desyncs real quick if you don't set both controllers to 3 button. FYI for anyone that was interested in watching it.

I'm sciencing as fast as I can ! ______________________________________ <adelikat> once more balls enter the picture, everything gets a lot more entertraining <adelikat> mmmmm yummy penises

Posted: 9/27/2006 8:33 AM

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Truncated

Editor, Reviewer, Experienced player (969)

Joined: 4/17/2004
Posts: 3107
Location: Sweden

>... if there's a "better" version of GENS for movie making I may decide to tackle this. Well, which version did you use? There has been a few revisions lately.

Posted: 9/27/2006 8:41 AM

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Deign

Active player (435)

Joined: 7/23/2006
Posts: 389
Location: Washington

May have just been that I was tired, but I was using the Gens 9f that was modified by Nitsuja. Maybe I'm too use to the way VGA works, which I think works extremely well. Like I said, after I finish with Fusion I'll give it another look (if no one else wants to do this game).

I'm sciencing as fast as I can ! ______________________________________ <adelikat> once more balls enter the picture, everything gets a lot more entertraining <adelikat> mmmmm yummy penises

Posted: 9/27/2006 9:46 AM

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Truncated

Editor, Reviewer, Experienced player (969)

Joined: 4/17/2004
Posts: 3107
Location: Sweden

>Gens 9f Okay, that explains your desynch problem. Gens is now up to version 9j, and it sets the correct controllers automatically. Download it from http://tasvideos.org/EmulatorHomepages.html

Posted: 9/27/2006 3:04 PM

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Deign

Active player (435)

Joined: 7/23/2006
Posts: 389
Location: Washington

Truncated, that was much easier to work with. Mostly due to the save states being as they were. I went ahead and redid lvl 1 using it and made it much much more precise. This is what I came up with. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/2123/TJaE2.gmv

I'm sciencing as fast as I can ! ______________________________________ <adelikat> once more balls enter the picture, everything gets a lot more entertraining <adelikat> mmmmm yummy penises

Posted: 9/28/2006 1:48 PM

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Deign

Active player (435)

Joined: 7/23/2006
Posts: 389
Location: Washington

Mmmk, so after getting use to this version of Gens, I redid Level 1 to get a panic button. This movie goes through to finishing level 2. I'm going to go ahead and put a pause on this project though. Unless there's enough positive feedback about the game or the movie. Don't want to make a movie that isn't entertaining. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/2129/TJaE2.gmv

I'm sciencing as fast as I can ! ______________________________________ <adelikat> once more balls enter the picture, everything gets a lot more entertraining <adelikat> mmmmm yummy penises

Posted: 9/28/2006 2:07 PM

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N._Harmonik

She/Her

Joined: 8/27/2006
Posts: 502
Location: Canada

"Isn't entertaining?!" Are you kidding? This game is hilarious!

Why, oh, why do I even <i>try</i> to understand my own species?

Posted: 9/28/2006 5:34 PM

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Deign

Active player (435)

Joined: 7/23/2006
Posts: 389
Location: Washington

N. Harmonik wrote:

"Isn't entertaining?!" Are you kidding? This game is hilarious!

o Believe me, this is a fun game to play. The question being however, is whether a TAS would be fun enough to watch to warrent creating one.

I'm sciencing as fast as I can ! ______________________________________ <adelikat> once more balls enter the picture, everything gets a lot more entertraining <adelikat> mmmmm yummy penises

Posted: 9/29/2006 2:52 PM

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N._Harmonik

She/Her

Joined: 8/27/2006
Posts: 502
Location: Canada

Deign wrote:

N. Harmonik wrote:
"Isn't entertaining?!" Are you kidding? This game is hilarious!
o Believe me, this is a fun game to play. The question being however, is whether a TAS would be fun enough to watch to warrent creating one.

This game is fun to play AND watch! Not to mention, it is different as you can't just go from left to right to complete the level. Have to collect all those, er, humans too. Besides, I wanna see someone beat that super annoying duck-on-a-flying-carpet into submission! That would give me (and probably many others) satisfaction.

Why, oh, why do I even <i>try</i> to understand my own species?

Posted: 11/12/2006 6:00 AM

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Quietust

He/Him

Emulator Coder, Former player

Joined: 7/14/2004
Posts: 250

Are there any plans to continue this run?

* Quietust, QMT Productions P.S. If you don't get this note, let me know and I'll write you another

Posted: 11/12/2006 6:55 AM

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nifboy

Former player

Joined: 5/31/2004
Posts: 375

Having just discovered this topic today, I'm really impressed. It flows exceedingly well. Funk move, bizarre wall climbing, and some panic button put in for good measure.

Posted: 4/24/2007 3:07 AM

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Deign

Active player (435)

Joined: 7/23/2006
Posts: 389
Location: Washington

Firstly, I apologize for my absence. I have been unable to put any effort towards anything that didn't involve work or college for the past 5 months and thus...have been away for a while. However, I'm back now. I've decided to pick this game back up. I redid the first 2 levels and turned off game-tips at the start. Overall about 300 frame improvement since the previous time I didn't put in as much effort. Also now in this file is level 3 completed as well. Enjoy. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/5218/TJ%26E2.gmv

I'm sciencing as fast as I can ! ______________________________________ <adelikat> once more balls enter the picture, everything gets a lot more entertraining <adelikat> mmmmm yummy penises

Posted: 4/24/2007 3:21 AM

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mmbossman

Experienced player (822)

Joined: 11/18/2006
Posts: 2426
Location: Back where I belong

Yo yo yo, first I have to say welcome back from your long time away! And second, I watched your WIP and was thoroughly entertained. This game is so bright and colorful it's pleasant to view, and the movement never stopped. It took me a while to figure out you were trapping humans in bottles, but once I found that out it made it even more fun to see. I never played this as a kid, so I don't have any in depth knowledge to impart or tips to help you up, but I hope you keep it up! EDIT: Just out of curiosity, have you updated your copy of Gens since you last posted? I've found that it's become my favorite emulator to use recently, and it's become pretty user friendly now.

Living Well Is The Best Revenge My Personal Page

Posted: 4/24/2007 1:28 PM

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Paused

Joined: 5/9/2005
Posts: 748

I got a desync in the second level. Earl gets bitten by the the 3rd poodle and then the two of them walk into the wall alot... Though enjoyed what I saw. Just a few comments. At SDA there was some talk of finishing the Hyper Funk Zones, that on rails mini game. Gives infinite Super Jars when completed apparently. Not sure if you can pick up enough supers on the way to make an endless supply nescessary. Also, should you not be playing with 6 buttons rather than 3? That way you can use Panic Buttons and Funk Vaccums with out needing to go into the pause menu. Anyway loves that your using the duo. Planning on picking up Lamonts favorite things later?

Posted: 4/24/2007 4:05 PM

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emu

Active player (380)

Joined: 1/2/2007
Posts: 188
Location: Germany, Munich

Synchs fine with my version (20061213). I forgot about this game until arrow from SDA made a speedrun last month. The game is hilarious (especially smacking jars into the faces of the earthlings). I never played it through and (still) didn't watch the whole speedrun, so I don't know if it will start to be repetitive later on. However it looks very entertaining so far and I hope to see more of it. Nice handclap glitch btw. Did this skip the rather long diving part?

Posted: 4/24/2007 7:29 PM

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Deign

Active player (435)

Joined: 7/23/2006
Posts: 389
Location: Washington

Paused: The hyper funk zones would take far too much time to do enough hyper funk zones to get the infinite super jars. Also, it has desynced for me on that same spot when i play it back every so often. Just try to play it back again and it should be ok. Lastly, if you watch the 3rd level you'll see that you can still activate panic buttons without a 6 button controller ;) I will most likely not be using any funk vacs as they take a large amount of time to use. I do not plan on picking up Lamonts favorite things. I would consider that for a 100% run, but for now I'm just doin the speed run =) Emu: Yes it does skip the long diving part, however even in single player i know that entire dive + fire room is completely skippable. In fact just that one level alone could be improved by more than a minute on arrows run on SDA. Thanks for your comments

I'm sciencing as fast as I can ! ______________________________________ <adelikat> once more balls enter the picture, everything gets a lot more entertraining <adelikat> mmmmm yummy penises

Posted: 4/25/2007 7:14 AM

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Deign

Active player (435)

Joined: 7/23/2006
Posts: 389
Location: Washington

Update: Level 4 completed...was a ton easier than level 3. Only difficulty was that there was no super jars within easy reach. In case anyone is wondering why i jumped into the ditch with the fat alien only to high5 glich over the wall, it's because if I didn't toejam or earl would have hit a Hyper Funk Zone and this is quite undesired. Also, I do drop a lot of seemingly meaningless jars. Reason for this is verticle height control. If I do it immediately after a jump I shorten the jump height. If done near the peak of the jump I can leangthen the horizontal ground covered in the jump. One last thing I feel that may need explanation is the reason I always jump before throwing jars is for 3 reasons. A: Still moving in one direction or another while throwing. B: Can move immediately after hitting the ground whereas when throwing from the ground there is a large period of time where you are immobile. C: You can fire off the proceeding jar much quicker while in the air as opposed to being on the ground. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/5238/TJ%26E2.gmv Enjoy. And let me know if you see at any point either a route that may be quicker or possibly something i overlooked. Any sort of constructive criticism is much appreciated.

I'm sciencing as fast as I can ! ______________________________________ <adelikat> once more balls enter the picture, everything gets a lot more entertraining <adelikat> mmmmm yummy penises

Posted: 4/25/2007 11:34 AM

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Arrow

Joined: 1/6/2007
Posts: 14

I'm obscenely impressed with your work so far. The way you're coordinating between the two characters is beautiful. My jaw dropped during level 4 and didn't come back up until the movie was over. I'm quite literally excited to see the rest of this.

Yes it does skip the long diving part, however even in single player i know that entire dive + fire room is completely skippable. In fact just that one level alone could be improved by more than a minute on arrows run on SDA.

I know the high-five glitch can be easily done in real time, but are you saying there's a way to skip that portion in a single player run that I overlooked?

Posted: 4/25/2007 12:50 PM

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moozooh

Senior Moderator

Joined: 8/4/2005
Posts: 5770
Location: Away

This game should get an award for the most hilarious sound effects, particularly that "AWESOME…" moan. :D Regarding the run, it didn't impress me much, but seemed to pick up a bit starting with the 3rd level. It can be a fine run if it keeps the pace on that level or above. I can't provide any feedback on quality, just keep in mind that it's always faster to keep one character running as close to the "forward" side of the screen as possible, with the other doing "side jobs" on the way while the screen is scrolling, rather than alternating them or something (NES Contra/SuperC runs are a good example). Also, I've noticed a bit of lag during some jar throwing sequences, have you tried something to decrease it? And I assume you have all the needed memory addresses to ease the positioning/speed optimization?

Warp wrote:

Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.

Posted: 4/25/2007 9:52 PM

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Deign

Active player (435)

Joined: 7/23/2006
Posts: 389
Location: Washington

Arrow: Yes on the 2nd level the wall in which i jumped, if you go to the wall on the left, a single player can spam jump and you will jump to the very top of that wall. Then use the bubble to cross the gap to the end of that area. Moozooh: Yes the first 2 levels don't have much to offer. Those are the levels that the game has to break in the player to how the game works. Level 3 is where you get to the real game. I'm trying to keep whichever character has the most forward motion to the front, but because of having to throw so many jars AND make sure they dont miss, this will tend to switch because of where the jars are coming from or so i can make sure the jar gets picked up. In the last area of level 3 I had to switch them because earl moves rocks LOADS faster than TJ. And as you could see there was an earthling in a bush behind a rock. Other than that, yes I am trying to keep the forward momentum as best i can. Asfor memory addresses, I tried to fiddle around with that for about 2 hours trying to figure out how to make sure i got the most super jars from presents(which i've had 0 luck with so far. Having to accept 1 - 2 SJ per present so that I wouldn't have to stop too much) which I was unsuccessful at. Honestly I just dont know what I'm doing when it comes to that portion of TAS'ing.

I'm sciencing as fast as I can ! ______________________________________ <adelikat> once more balls enter the picture, everything gets a lot more entertraining <adelikat> mmmmm yummy penises

Posted: 4/26/2007 12:38 AM

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Quietust

He/Him

Emulator Coder, Former player

Joined: 7/14/2004
Posts: 250

Super Jars count is located at address FFA91A (unsigned, presumably 2 bytes), confirmed by using a code to lock it greater than zero and give myself infinite jars

* Quietust, QMT Productions P.S. If you don't get this note, let me know and I'll write you another

Posted: 4/27/2007 6:21 AM

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Deign

Active player (435)

Joined: 7/23/2006
Posts: 389
Location: Washington

Update: Level 5 is now completed. I was able to do the last area of lvl 5 without riding a single bubble and using a lot of teleports. Current time at very very start of level 6 is 10min 8.333 seconds. I can't be too certain but at this rate I suspect the complete run to be 40-45 minutes. This is just an estimate based on lvls 3-5 time. My rerecord count just about doubled on this level alone lol, but I think it's pretty clean, once again, let me know if you see anything (hopefully not...bubble room was painful ><) that needs adjustment. Edit:Adjusted the timing at the end of level 4 so that the 2 poodles would spawn on their own which cut 50 frames. Just FYI in case you have a load state that was saved after this spot. Edit#2: Forgot to put link...i fail at life http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/5279/TJ%26E2.gmv

I'm sciencing as fast as I can ! ______________________________________ <adelikat> once more balls enter the picture, everything gets a lot more entertraining <adelikat> mmmmm yummy penises

Posted: 4/28/2007 3:52 AM

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Quietust

He/Him

Emulator Coder, Former player

Joined: 7/14/2004
Posts: 250

A few additional useful memory addresses: FF8DDE - Toejam's horizontal speed (signed 16-bit) FF8E5E - Earl's horizontal speed (signed 16-bit) FF8DE6 - Toejam's vertical speed (signed 16-bit) FF8E66 - Earl's vertical speed (signed 16-bit) Horizontal speed starts at 256 and increases 8 per frame (including the first frame, so you really start at 264), but jumping while moving immediately sets horizontal speed to 512 - if a short jump lasts less than 32 frames, do one when starting from a standstill. Horizontal speed normally maxes at 768, but a panic button will set it to 1024 and sliding across snowy hills can potentially reach 1536. Swimming underwater pushes you to 768, but the water slows you down so you have to swim as quickly as possible.

* Quietust, QMT Productions P.S. If you don't get this note, let me know and I'll write you another