Topic by N._Harmonik

Posted: 2/17/2007 10:25 PM

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N._Harmonik

She/Her

Joined: 8/27/2006
Posts: 502
Location: Canada

Now that all the main Pokémon games (that are doable) are done, let's see if we can't get this spin-off run and published!

Why, oh, why do I even try to understand my own species?

Posted: 2/17/2007 10:55 PM

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I thought that was what you were trying to do, as you posted in all the pokemon related threads. Anyways, if anyone wants to continue this, they are welcome. I don't really like this game to much, so maybe I'll work on Pokemon Stadium instead. I agree that we should do more pokemon runs, even though most of them are pretty boring to watch, it's for the sake of completeness.

Posted: 12/25/2007 2:42 AM
(Edited: 12/25/2007 7:35 AM)

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FractalFusion

Editor, Skilled player (1941)

Joined: 6/15/2005
Posts: 3247

Update: 5 battles done, 1.75 clubs beaten (stopped at Lightning Club Master): http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1357560536/1.75clubsdone%20FractalFusion.vbm Second battle is a two-move win. All other battles are one-move wins. The strategy that I use is based on the fact that the RNG (at CACA-CACB) does not run when changing the deck, and that only index offsets are randomized. Here's my strategy for each battle: 1) Simulate a deck change (to get the proper RNG values after changing it for real). 2) Enter battle and check C480 for the opponent's cards. Make note of all Basic Pokemon cards and also note which ones are weak (i.e. the target cards). 3) Check each frame and look at C37E for the opponent's starting hand. Ideally, I want a hand that has as few (but greater than zero) target Basic Pokemon as possible (either 1 or 2), and no others. 4) Play on to get information such as coin flips. 5) When I am satisfied with the event, go back to the frame with which I started battle. Check CACA and write down the 3-byte sequence. Then play on a bit and then go to C27E for my starting hand and opening draw card. 6) Return to the deck change screen and modify the deck such that the desired cards fall in the index offsets specified in step 5. 7) Trigger the battle on the desired RNG number and beat the opponent. The deck order (to where index offsets refer) is listed at C400. When adding cards, they are appended to the end. When deleting cards, the first instance is deleted and the remaining cards are shifted left. It is possible to intentionally redraw the hand (by not getting Basic Pokemon) to manipulate the coin toss. Also, against special opponents (the Club Masters, Ronald, and probably the Grand Masters), the game basically hacks the draw in their favor, giving them a hand with at least two Basic Pokemon and some energy cards. It occurs just before placing prizes. Since I can't win in less than two moves, I can rely on the prizes for a card which can be used on the second turn. Also, redrawing the hand may mess with their Basic Pokemon. Useful cards: Nidoran Male (1 energy, 30 damage on coin flip), Hitmonchan (1 energy, 20 damage), Pluspower (10 extra damage), Defender (prevents opponent attack which takes time), Energy Search (shuffling deck changes random map completely).

Posted: 12/25/2007 3:58 AM

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N._Harmonik

She/Her

Joined: 8/27/2006
Posts: 502
Location: Canada

Defeating an opponent in one move? This I've got to see! Please put this on YouTube!

Why, oh, why do I even try to understand my own species?

Posted: 12/25/2007 7:29 AM

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FractalFusion

Editor, Skilled player (1941)

Joined: 6/15/2005
Posts: 3247

I don't like to put stuff on Youtube, so I uploaded it to Filefront instead: http://files.filefront.com/pokemoncardavi/;9320823;/fileinfo.html Note: Video recording starts after the tutorial battle. In fact, this video goes on and beats everyone but the Club Master in the Lightning Club, all with one-move wins. I'll update the movie link above. I won't be working on this for a while.

Posted: 12/30/2007 12:22 AM

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Chamale

He/Him

Player (178)

Joined: 10/20/2006
Posts: 1352
Location: Canada

I just watched the run, it was pretty amazing, but I have one question: Why's the name Mark?

Posted: 12/30/2007 2:29 AM

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Soulrivers

Former player

Joined: 12/27/2006
Posts: 532
Location: Göteborg, Sweden

Really good WIP Fractal. I'll be watching this project.

My published movies [03:45:05] <Naohiro19> Soulrivers: ... [03:45:19] <Soulrivers> ? [03:46:35] <Naohiro19> <Soulrivers> No! <Naohiro19> So? <Soulrivers> Yes! [03:46:48] <Naohiro19> joke

Posted: 12/30/2007 3:40 AM

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N._Harmonik

She/Her

Joined: 8/27/2006
Posts: 502
Location: Canada

Chamale wrote:

I just watched the run, it was pretty amazing, but I have one question: Why's the name Mark?

That's the default name though TAS Pokecustoms demand that names be only one digit long usually.

Why, oh, why do I even try to understand my own species?

Posted: 12/31/2007 12:17 AM

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Chamale

He/Him

Player (178)

Joined: 10/20/2006
Posts: 1352
Location: Canada

In this game, most text zooms past instantly, instead of going 1 character per frame. I think it's enough to negate the problems with having a 4-character name.

Posted: 8/21/2010 10:17 PM
(Edited: 8/31/2010 11:15 PM)

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p4wn3r

Player (42)

Joined: 12/27/2008
Posts: 873
Location: Germany

Reviving this for a good reason. I've resumed FractalFusion's project for a co-authored submission and now four clubs are defeated. The movie file can be gotten here: http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/843842017/0456%20-%20Pok%E9mon%20Trading%20Card%20Game%20%28U%29%28Menace%29.vbm But, since nobody watches movies on the emulator, here's a poor encode: ~~http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_aSDnT8dnU~~ EDIT: Deleted the video, see http://tasvideos.org/2824S.html for the full run. Note: If you complain about the quality, I've reached my objective. My goal is to traumatize people so much with my encodes that they watch the vbm instead. I suggest that you pay me a decent internet connection if you want to see better videos, this one took long enough to upload.

Posted: 8/22/2010 3:15 AM

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N._Harmonik

She/Her

Joined: 8/27/2006
Posts: 502
Location: Canada

Wouldn't it be faster if the protagonist was given a one letter name so the text would scroll quicker?

Why, oh, why do I even try to understand my own species?

Posted: 8/22/2010 7:18 AM

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Zeupar

Joined: 5/14/2007
Posts: 525
Location: Pisces-Cetus filament

N. Harmonik wrote:

Wouldn't it be faster if the protagonist was given a one letter name so the text would scroll quicker?

Indeed. However, since he has resumed FractalFusion's project, he can't change the name unless he starts over.

AzumaK wrote: I swear my 1 year old daughter's favorite TASVideo is your R4MI run :3 xxNKxx wrote: ok thanks handsome feos :D Help improving TASVideos!

Posted: 8/22/2010 11:11 AM

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p4wn3r

Player (42)

Joined: 12/27/2008
Posts: 873
Location: Germany

N. Harmonik wrote:

Wouldn't it be faster if the protagonist was given a one letter name so the text would scroll quicker?

Perhaps. When text speed is set to fastest, text blasts through the screen several characters per frame, it probably wouldn't make difference the name's length. I haven't counted how many times "MARK" is printed in the intro section nor how much it costs to rename him to make a proper resolution on what's faster. It's more like Zeupar said. FractalFusion's movie was nicely optimized, I didn't consider naming mistakes a strong reason to redo the whole movie.

Posted: 8/27/2010 12:56 AM

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p4wn3r

Player (42)

Joined: 12/27/2008
Posts: 873
Location: Germany

Update on the run. Seven medals won, only grass club and the grand masters to go. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/345396964/0456%20-%20Pok%E9mon%20Trading%20Card%20Game%20%28U%29%28Menace%29.vbm I'd encode it, but I consider it pointless, since the TAS is reaching its completion. Comments on the WiP would be greatly appreciated.

Posted: 8/27/2010 5:06 AM

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Jungon

He/Him

Player (40)

Joined: 4/2/2009
Posts: 376
Location: Porto Alegre - Brazil

Question: why do bosses always have 2 pokémon? =P

*Jungon*/*Johnnyz* smilie weirdo =P ^^ o.o @__@ +D

Posted: 8/27/2010 3:43 PM

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p4wn3r

Player (42)

Joined: 12/27/2008
Posts: 873
Location: Germany

At boss battles, the game changes their hand shortly before the prizes are put, and they receive some basic pokemon and energy cards. I've never seen their hand be changed to one that has only one pokemon, so FractalFusion and I assume the game puts a minimum of two basic cards, making it impossible to manipulate a one-turn win.

Posted: 8/28/2010 8:18 PM

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Jungon

He/Him

Player (40)

Joined: 4/2/2009
Posts: 376
Location: Porto Alegre - Brazil

I asked because I was almost sure I already saw it before, a gym leader with only 1 pokemon at the start of a duel =P or maybe it was a legendary battle in the end ...

*Jungon*/*Johnnyz* smilie weirdo =P ^^ o.o @__@ +D

Posted: 8/29/2010 2:34 AM

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p4wn3r

Player (42)

Joined: 12/27/2008
Posts: 873
Location: Germany

Grand master battles, with the exception of Rod, can be won in one turn. Only the first two Ronalds and club leaders can't. You have to make the game put a legendary card and another weak card in the hand. The AI won't put the legendary in the bench at the start to abuse its poképower by placing it during their first turn. What happens is that the enemy goes out with only one pokemon, even if it has two in their hand. It doesn't work for Rod because his legendary Dragonite isn't a basic pokemon.

Posted: 10/9/2010 10:14 PM

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dirk456

Joined: 3/3/2007
Posts: 53

The run was made out of pure awesomesauce o.o Any chance of doing the japanese only sequel? Basically same game, defeat the same 8 leaders and after that you traver to Great Rocket Island where you have to beat another set of guys.

Posted: 10/9/2010 10:22 PM

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p4wn3r

Player (42)

Joined: 12/27/2008
Posts: 873
Location: Germany

Thanks, I'm glad that you liked it ^^ Fractal and I discussed briefly about doing the sequel a little after we submitted the run. If the randomness works the same way it does in this one (and likely it does), it's just a matter of finding the new addresses, program a Lua script and it's possible to start right away. IIRC, the game is a bit longer than this one, and some battles have strange requirements, like having Jigglypuffs or banning some type of energy from your deck. However, it'll probably be faster because there's no tutorial. Both of us are pretty busy with other projects though... I intend to give it a go, but not too soon. If anyone wants to try in the meantime, I'm here to help ^^

Posted: 10/12/2010 8:12 PM

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p4wn3r

Player (42)

Joined: 12/27/2008
Posts: 873
Location: Germany

Apparently, I was wrong about a TAS of the second game being faster than the first. There's already a TAS of Pokemon Card GB2 on nicovideo by cstrakm and it's considerably longer: http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm7256179 I never played this game and know nothing of Japanese, but from what I read, you need to have all legendary cards before entering the final stage. They can be gotten by challenging the Grand Masters once they're rescued, but he uses a faster alternate method to get them sooner. This also allows to get Legendary Zapdos, whose pokepower can get rid of benched pokemon and deal damage to things that can't be OHKO'd. I could see that there's a trainer card able to deal damage to opponents too. Also, it seems the RNG only rolls when the menu is open, so the randomness is probably different from the first. The same author also made a TAS of the first game in the (J) version: http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm6861809 Apparently, he didn't know the RNG manipulation techniques used in the published run and went with a different strategy. Instead of changing the deck before most duels, he made one with lots of cards like Bill, Prof. Oak, Recycle and Computer Search, which allow one to access more cards in the first turn. That got him longer turns and made luck manipulation a lot harder though, he waited more frames and sometimes had to KO opponents with pluspowers or coin flips where it was possible to avoid it. He also couldn't manipulate Murray (it's a pain to get him with two Abras) and Mitch to be killed in two turns. He also didn't use Defenders to stop the AI from attacking. Overall, despite the tutorial ending ~1:30 sooner in (J) version, his run is 4.2 seconds slower than the published (U) run. Still, it's an amazing effort and his strategies could maybe be used to save time in a future revision.

Posted: 10/15/2010 8:26 AM

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FractalFusion

Editor, Skilled player (1941)

Joined: 6/15/2005
Posts: 3247

p4wn3r wrote:

I never played this game and know nothing of Japanese, but from what I read, you need to have all legendary cards before entering the final stage. They can be gotten by challenging the Grand Masters once they're rescued, but he uses a faster alternate method to get them sooner.

I found a site (Japanese) that details what the black box does. http://juno777.hp.infoseek.co.jp/kako/gb2_black.htm Basically, you feed the black box with cards, and you get something back in the mail. The legendary card requirements are: base set raichu LV40 base set zapdos LV64 dark raichu LV31 | v legendary zapdos LV68 ---- base set ninetales LV32 dark ninetales LV28 fossil moltres LV35 | v legendary moltres LV40 ---- fossil articuno LV35 vending sheet poliwrath LV40 vending sheet kingler LV33 | v legendary articuno LV36 ---- dragonair LV33 fossil dragonite LV45 dark dragonite LV33 | v legendary dragonite LV41

p4wn3r wrote:

I could see that there's a trainer card able to deal damage to opponents too.

That card is apparently named "Digger". It either does 10 damage to you, or 10 to your opponent. Probably better to use Scoop Up on Zapdos and drop Zapdos again.

Posted: 6/24/2011 3:12 AM

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p4wn3r

Player (42)

Joined: 12/27/2008
Posts: 873
Location: Germany

Just posting here to say that FractalFusion and I are having a deeper look into this game. The luck manipulation in the current run was made mostly through experimentation, so now we're trying to do it more analytically. An improvement to it might be on its way. Meanwhile, here's some random vid I made after deciphering a little of the RNG: Link to video

Posted: 6/24/2011 4:12 PM

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alden

Player (120)

Joined: 2/11/2007
Posts: 1522

so awesome

I make a comic with no image files and you should read it. While there is a lower class, I am in it, and while there is a criminal element I am of it, and while there is a soul in prison, I am not free. -Eugene Debs

Posted: 6/24/2011 4:31 PM

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Zanoab

Joined: 12/31/2009
Posts: 174

That was an awesome video. I would probably kill to have that kind of luck many years ago (I actually still have a working gbc and the game right now). Btw, what is the max for coin flipping? If it is unrestricted, there could be a possibility of doing some memory corruption depending on where/how the coin flips are stored (it would be a problem if it was compressed).