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Several people suggested I do a run of Sonic and Knuckles 3 to see if I could improve on SprintGod's run. I didn't think I could improve such a perfect run by more than a few frames, but it soon became clear that I was completely wrong about that. SprintGod's movie is full of amazingly precise playing and several tricks I have to admit I never would have found, but there were still some glitches he didn't find and some occasional slight imprecision in the playing. Also, he played 1-player with Sonic instead of 2-player with Sonic and Tails. Tails makes quite a difference, although my (extremely rough) estimate is that about 50% of this improvement could have been made without him. I should emphasize that I had (/made) much better tools for making this run than SprintGod had. Speed display + camera hack for each character + map maker + jump predictor + multitrack recorder... In any case, the result was a significantly (about 10 minutes) shorter movie.
LevelTimeUnits Improved
Angel Island 10:385
Angel Island 21:162
Hydrocity 10:3310
Hydrocity 21:0416
Marble Garden 10:3710
Marble Garden 20:3525
Carnival Night 10:348
Carnival Night 21:0838
Icecap 11:1611
Icecap 20:0041
Launch Base 11:3810
Launch Base 21:072
Mushroom Hill 10:462
Mushroom Hill 20:3723
Flying Battery 11:0836
Flying Battery 21:1498 (1:38)
Sandopolis 11:458
Sandopolis 21:2839
Lava Reef 11:1226
Lava Reef 20:51129 (2:09)
Hidden Palace0:260
Sky Sanctuary0:523
Death Egg 11:0427
Death Egg 22:1834
Total24:07565 (9:41)
I chose to not use death to save time, either in-game or real-time; SprintGod didn't use death either, and probably more people would be annoyed by it than appreciate it in this case. This also applies to entering bonus games, which interrupt the action and put you back at the last checkpoint and roll back the timer in a way similar to dying.
Thanks to Upthorn for showing how to activate the glitch in Icecap 1 and another glitch in Marble Garden 1, and for his Knuckles movie to give another source of ideas and comparison, and for giving some feedback about this movie while it was in progress, and for his recent work on Gens and help with some tools in it. And I believe it was mike89 on Sonic Center who revealed the Marble Garden 2 glitch.
See SprintGod's comments for a good explanation of the game's basic physics and quirks/glitches. Some more detailed (but currently very incomplete) information can be found at Sonic the Hedghehog tricks. A few things to add are: Acceleration is better in the air than on the ground, but deceleration is better on the ground (unless rolling) than in the air. Most of the glitches used to pass through objects work by tricking the game into putting those objects offscreen long enough for Sonic to pass through them, because the game does not do any calculations with objects that are offscreen.
Sorry for what I do to Icecap 1 and 2, but it is clearly much faster than beating it normally, and at least Icecap 1 has some nice music to listen to.
Some things that might seem like mistakes:
  • At the end of Mushroom Hill 1, Tails has to hit the signpost to the far left, otherwise Knuckles won't appear. I get a fire shield earlier because it is not in the ground anywhere on that screen to get from the signpost.
  • In Hydrocity 2, I have to wait for the third timed object, but starting that level enough later to save another time unit would place the first and/or second timed objects in places where I would need to wait even longer to get through.
  • The "teleport" glitch I use mainly in Launch Base and Lava Reef requires that Sonic be on the ground and at high speed from more than half of a screenful away (so it is not possible to use it in very many places), and sometimes it is slower even when it is possible because there is rarely enough time to do a full-speed spin dash when doing it.
  • Ending Flying Battery 2 where I do is actually faster than ending it with Sonic all the way to the right because of the jump, and the flying glitch I would normally do to save time is not possible there because of the type of ground.
  • At the very end of Hidden Palace zone, the game has a bug where it forgets to return control to player 2. The level won't end until both Sonic and Tails are in place by the teleporter, so I make Tails go there indirectly by using Sonic's command for a spindash as a jump for Tails.
  • In Launch Base 1, I run past a booster without triggering it because I am already moving faster than the booster speed, and rolling down that decline would be slower because rolling has a speed cap (which running does not).
  • I briefly pause the game before the fight with Metal Sonic in order to manipulate his random attack pattern into something better (the same one SprintGod had).
  • When Tails is uncontrollable, he can be tricked into landing early by jumping at the right height near him. But it is difficult to make him actually arrive anywhere earlier; the game will take away his control and teleport him to a predefined nearby spawn point when he has spent too much time offscreen, giving player 2 typically less than a second of control over when he starts flying (very slowly in the vertical direction) to reach you. He only arrives quickly at boss fights because the edge of forced screen boundaries will push him there.
  • The start of Mushroom Hill 2 (while offscreen) progresses more slowly than normal because all of the loops are broken (they are impenetrable walls that must be jumped on top of) and the springs and other objects are not there.
  • In Sandopolis 1, I don't use Tails to bypass the red spring under the sand river because it's not enough faster to avoid the next wait for a timed object.
  • I found a way to skip the midboss of Launch Base 2 that would save time, except it causes the timer to not stop for the extremely long cutscene.
  • The Launch Base 1 boss is "afraid" of Sonic and moves up when Sonic is in the air nearby it, so it's faster to kill it with Tails alone and keep Sonic always under it.
  • Sonic can't touch any of those moving platforms in Flying Battery without losing the glitch.
  • It's possible to zip further into the level in Launch Base 1, but doing so would skip the speed shoes and ultimately be slightly slower.
  • No death
  • Aims for fastest (primarily in-level) time
  • Ignores delays caused by bonus effects
  • Takes damage to save time
  • Abuses programming errors in the game (a lot)
  • Manipulates luck (a little)
  • One player controls two characters
  • Emulator used: Gens Movie Test 9j (works with 9f, etc.)

DeHackEd: Claim!
Bisqwit: Already done!

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TASVideoAgent
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This topic is for the purpose of discussing #1330: nitsuja's Genesis Sonic 3 and Knuckles in 35:19.62
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First edition TAS of 2015Innovative TAS of 2007
Nitsuja, it was pretty hard to find new nice beautiful words to describe your determination and your run so I had no other choice than to seek help from a secret friend (words marked with * are the ones I got from him). I had doubts you should be granted the Ninja rank a few months ago but during the last months, you have completely changed my as well as others mind about issue. You are not a ninja, no sire, you are God of Gods (Zeus can kiss your *dulcet* ass), you SHOULD DEFINITELY at least BE GRANTED the MASTER NINJA rank although that would still not be sufficient. If I were in charge, I would easily grant you a God rank without hesitation since its suits you so damn well. How many here gave SprintGods run 10/10? I sure did. So when you improve his run by nearly 10 minutes, what does that make you? A freaking supreme deity! You have now 5 Sonic records...... WOOOOW! With tremendous *exuberant* Im going to download this *redolent* movie file and simply be totally shocked at all the new tricks, glitches, see you *scintillate* and the new routes you have discovered. I bet it will be pretty difficult sometimes to understand your *esoterica* maneuvers because Im sure you will in many occurrences move too fast through the *mellifluous* spindashing and whatnot. In the end, you finally became massively *pyrrhic*.. Bravo Master Ninja. This is without a doubt the best TAS ever made. I wish this run could get at least 2 stars.. :( Where is the Hell-yes-vote-without-a-shadow-of-a-doubt feature?! Edit: because I knew I would get amazed. I just watched the first stage, he already glitched with the graphics... sweeeet!
Nitrogenesis wrote:
Guys I come from the DidyKnogRacist communite, and you are all wrong, tihs is the run of the mileniun and everyone who says otherwise dosnt know any bater! I found this run vary ease to masturbate too!!!! Don't fuck with me, I know this game so that mean I'm always right!StupedfackincommunityTASVideoz!!!!!!
Arc wrote:
I enjoyed this movie in which hands firmly gripping a shaft lead to balls deep in multiple holes.
natt wrote:
I don't want to get involved in this discussion, but as a point of fact C# is literally the first goddamn thing on that fucking page you linked did you even fucking read it
Cooljay wrote:
Mayor Haggar and Cody are such nice people for the community. Metro City's hospitals reached an all time new record of incoming patients due to their great efforts :P
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AngerFist wrote:
This is without a doubt the best TAS ever made. Where is the Hell-yes-vote-without-a-shadow-of-a-doubt feature?!
So you watched a 35 minute movie in 2 minutes? Isn't there a rule against voting without watching the movie?
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Holy...? I can't wait to see this.
Spacecow
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10 minutes?! Are you kidding me!?!??
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Zurreco wrote:
AngerFist wrote:
This is without a doubt the best TAS ever made. Where is the Hell-yes-vote-without-a-shadow-of-a-doubt feature?!
So you watched a 35 minute movie in 2 minutes? Isn't there a rule against voting without watching the movie?
Watching 2 minutes of this makes you astonished enough! OMG this run is simply amazing! *Marble Garden act 1 starting now :)*
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Voting yes. You shot through half of the game so fast that I couldn't really take in what was going on. Very impressive. I reall liked how Mushroom Hill 1 was played normally, and then Mushroom Hill 2 was halfway done before 1 even ended.
hi nitrodon streamline: cyn-chine
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This is freaking awesome. Yes vote. Ice Cap 1 had me laughing out loud.
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uhhhhhm... so Sonic have new features. He can walk in the air, uhm run diagonally?! Seriously Nitsuja, what the fuck did you do to this poor game? Thanks a lot for causing the brain concussion I got after watching your run.
Nitrogenesis wrote:
Guys I come from the DidyKnogRacist communite, and you are all wrong, tihs is the run of the mileniun and everyone who says otherwise dosnt know any bater! I found this run vary ease to masturbate too!!!! Don't fuck with me, I know this game so that mean I'm always right!StupedfackincommunityTASVideoz!!!!!!
Arc wrote:
I enjoyed this movie in which hands firmly gripping a shaft lead to balls deep in multiple holes.
natt wrote:
I don't want to get involved in this discussion, but as a point of fact C# is literally the first goddamn thing on that fucking page you linked did you even fucking read it
Cooljay wrote:
Mayor Haggar and Cody are such nice people for the community. Metro City's hospitals reached an all time new record of incoming patients due to their great efforts :P
Spacecow
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Okay, wow. This is like Bisqwit's treatment of Mega Man, but even more extreme. The game is broken to hilarious degrees, while still being intact enough that it's extremely entertaining to watch all the way through. It's consistently amazing, clever, and fun to watch. This is the quintessential TAS. Give this three stars. :)
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I'm speechless. A star can't rate this enough. Some parts are extremely amusing since it's glitchy like hell! Very entertaning as well...I don't know what to say anymore...! Words can't express what this speedrun is. It starts kicking the graphics, then Marble Garden 2 is simply owned, Ice Cap 1 is completely skipped, Sonic runs diagonally...WTF!! Yes³ from me.
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This is disgusting. You are relentlessly unfair to these poor Sonic games. I hardly recognized some of the levels. (These are good things)
Spacecow wrote:
This is like Bisqwit's treatment of Mega Man
I remember thinking this same thought around the end of Lava Reef zone.
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Mitjitsu
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I haven't watched it yet, but holy fuck this is is a better improvement than the sonic 2 run. I'm gonna watch this right now, the previous run was in my top 5 of favourites on the site if not my favourvitest of all.
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I could see the progress on this: Nitsuja: Bah, I don't like Icecap 2 that much, so I think I'll just skip it all together. Come on, Mushroom Hill 1, end...ah screw it, I'm going ahead to the next act. And while I'm at it, I think Flying Battery 2 deserves a new background... Seriously, the level of ownage achieved on top of what was already my favorite TAS on the whole site is simply staggering. You just replaced SprintGod as my favorite TASer ever. Congrabulations. Star IMMEDIATELY.
[URL=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IcuV2JdaBYY]Streets of Rage 3 (2 players)[/url]
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Wow... this makes all other TASes look slow :)
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I don't know what to say… This run is a blazing fast mixture of complex physics, big nonlinear levels and crazy megaman glitching. This run is a freaking essence of what most of us like (and strive for) here. This run… is simply awesome, and it's indoubtedly getting a 10 for entertainment from me (man, I laughed almost hysterically at least three times, even though I knew your times from AngerFist). You're a TASing genius, Nitsuja, and you prove that again and again. Thank you!
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
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I know this run is that good when I miss a glitch right from the very beginning and have to replay it again. Yes vote and 10/10. Call us when you come back to real life. :)
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Most entertaining run I've seen in a while - the old run was amazing, which just makes this unbelievable. Wow...
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Protip: Do not watch this movie while drinking a carbonated beverage.
Build a man a fire, warm him for a day, Set a man on fire, warm him for the rest of his life.
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Wow, one of the funniest movies on the site. I sat here laughing my ass off at the sheer WTFness of what was going in this game. It's hard to know if it's perfect, however I always thought SprintGod's was as good as it got. Nitsuja, take a bow.
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OmnipotentEntity wrote:
Protip: Do not watch this movie while drinking a carbonated beverage.
Protip: To defeat the cyberdemon, shoot it until it dies. and what that means, gentle readers, is that I was likening OmnipotentEntity's warning to that, most obvious hint, ever to be published in a self-respecting gaming magazine and what that means, is OBVIOUS YES
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CRAP! He zips even more than meggerman!!?! Great run, love it whenever a sonic run is submitted for 2 reasons... because of the speed, and because its by nitsuja :) Tight stuff... omg MASTER SUPERSONIC DEITY NINJA GOD(DESS)!!!
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Oh, some other things I liked: • "(W) [!].bin" in the topic title • <NrgSpoon> CARNIVAL NIGHT WTF • <atro_city> This is awesome. He's making a complete mockery of the game. • <_LSK_> okay, icecap has me laughing out loud
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
Mitjitsu
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If I vote no to this game then any content on this site would be non existent, then again its unreasonable to hold every run up till this degree of glitching, speed and length. Nitsuja did you use Debug mode to find these glitches, becuase it I've been able to corrupt Marble Garden to a even further degree than whats shown (with debug of course) i.e get the boss to appear in a completely studpid place. My favourite glitches were the Night Carnival one and the Flying battery although, isn't the first boss in Flying Battery meant to appear in a completely in built area. My advice to anyone who hasn't seen the game completed is to watch SprintGod's one before this becuase you'll have no idea what being bypassed. My guess is that you probally used a camhack to do the zipping because I know takes several thousand to optimize them and even when you feel you have achived that you still never know. Although I thought Mushroom 2 was a little cheecky though. I do have one question though, will I thought all the stages were optimized, I did have question marks over Sandopolid one because you see to take a while trying to bypass the sand so you can go down and use the spring rope to shoot up onto a platform above the river, surely you could have used tails to do that quicker though. BTW I've already stated my vote, my next sugestion would probally be to try the super/hyper sonic run and when it becomes possible Sonic Adventure. P.S JXQ I could beat this by 30 mins if I use the level select glitch. hehe EDIT: I strongly argue that this run should get a shiny gold star.
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Only one thing I didn't see, which I was hoping for: In Lava Reef 1 it's possible to, the first time you appear "outside", near where the lava is, fall into the floor with enough speed and emerge near the fire shield and 10 rings below. Other than that, let's move on to what I actually think of this run. Partly it's unfair for me to critique this as not only did I find some of the tricks, but I'd seen many of the others before. (I found MG2, nitsuja credited me as "yse" - which is my handle on TSC these days). So it isn't quite as impressive to me as it should be to most people. This run is the very epitome of why TAS and speedruns are separate arts. Normally you can swipe a few strategies from the TAS to use in a speedrun - but you've blown that right out of the water :D Almost every single level has a new strategy in it! LB2 is the only one that comes to mind that doesn't change... Teamwork between Sonic and Tails was incredible. As with any self-respecting Sonic run, the speed was remarkable. The single best TAS ever. Period. (I was going to say the best exhibition of speedrunning, legitimate or TAS, but that could easily spark a debate.) *goes back to recovering*
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