Several people suggested I do a run of Sonic and Knuckles 3 to see if I could improve on SprintGod's run. I didn't think I could improve such a perfect run by more than a few frames, but it soon became clear that I was completely wrong about that. SprintGod's movie is full of amazingly precise playing and several tricks I have to admit I never would have found, but there were still some glitches he didn't find and some occasional slight imprecision in the playing. Also, he played 1-player with Sonic instead of 2-player with Sonic and Tails. Tails makes quite a difference, although my (extremely rough) estimate is that about 50% of this improvement could have been made without him. I should emphasize that I had (/made) much better tools for making this run than SprintGod had. Speed display + camera hack for each character + map maker + jump predictor + multitrack recorder... In any case, the result was a significantly (about 10 minutes) shorter movie.
Level
Time
Units Improved
Angel Island 1
0:38
5
Angel Island 2
1:16
2
Hydrocity 1
0:33
10
Hydrocity 2
1:04
16
Marble Garden 1
0:37
10
Marble Garden 2
0:35
25
Carnival Night 1
0:34
8
Carnival Night 2
1:08
38
Icecap 1
1:16
11
Icecap 2
0:00
41
Launch Base 1
1:38
10
Launch Base 2
1:07
2
Mushroom Hill 1
0:46
2
Mushroom Hill 2
0:37
23
Flying Battery 1
1:08
36
Flying Battery 2
1:14
98 (1:38)
Sandopolis 1
1:45
8
Sandopolis 2
1:28
39
Lava Reef 1
1:12
26
Lava Reef 2
0:51
129 (2:09)
Hidden Palace
0:26
0
Sky Sanctuary
0:52
3
Death Egg 1
1:04
27
Death Egg 2
2:18
34
Total
24:07
565 (9:41)
I chose to not use death to save time, either in-game or real-time; SprintGod didn't use death either, and probably more people would be annoyed by it than appreciate it in this case. This also applies to entering bonus games, which interrupt the action and put you back at the last checkpoint and roll back the timer in a way similar to dying.
Thanks to Upthorn for showing how to activate the glitch in Icecap 1 and another glitch in Marble Garden 1, and for his Knuckles movie to give another source of ideas and comparison, and for giving some feedback about this movie while it was in progress, and for his recent work on Gens and help with some tools in it. And I believe it was mike89 on Sonic Center who revealed the Marble Garden 2 glitch.
See SprintGod's comments for a good explanation of the game's basic physics and quirks/glitches. Some more detailed (but currently very incomplete) information can be found at Sonic the Hedghehog tricks. A few things to add are: Acceleration is better in the air than on the ground, but deceleration is better on the ground (unless rolling) than in the air. Most of the glitches used to pass through objects work by tricking the game into putting those objects offscreen long enough for Sonic to pass through them, because the game does not do any calculations with objects that are offscreen.
Sorry for what I do to Icecap 1 and 2, but it is clearly much faster than beating it normally, and at least Icecap 1 has some nice music to listen to.
Some things that might seem like mistakes:
At the end of Mushroom Hill 1, Tails has to hit the signpost to the far left, otherwise Knuckles won't appear. I get a fire shield earlier because it is not in the ground anywhere on that screen to get from the signpost.
In Hydrocity 2, I have to wait for the third timed object, but starting that level enough later to save another time unit would place the first and/or second timed objects in places where I would need to wait even longer to get through.
The "teleport" glitch I use mainly in Launch Base and Lava Reef requires that Sonic be on the ground and at high speed from more than half of a screenful away (so it is not possible to use it in very many places), and sometimes it is slower even when it is possible because there is rarely enough time to do a full-speed spin dash when doing it.
Ending Flying Battery 2 where I do is actually faster than ending it with Sonic all the way to the right because of the jump, and the flying glitch I would normally do to save time is not possible there because of the type of ground.
At the very end of Hidden Palace zone, the game has a bug where it forgets to return control to player 2. The level won't end until both Sonic and Tails are in place by the teleporter, so I make Tails go there indirectly by using Sonic's command for a spindash as a jump for Tails.
In Launch Base 1, I run past a booster without triggering it because I am already moving faster than the booster speed, and rolling down that decline would be slower because rolling has a speed cap (which running does not).
I briefly pause the game before the fight with Metal Sonic in order to manipulate his random attack pattern into something better (the same one SprintGod had).
When Tails is uncontrollable, he can be tricked into landing early by jumping at the right height near him. But it is difficult to make him actually arrive anywhere earlier; the game will take away his control and teleport him to a predefined nearby spawn point when he has spent too much time offscreen, giving player 2 typically less than a second of control over when he starts flying (very slowly in the vertical direction) to reach you. He only arrives quickly at boss fights because the edge of forced screen boundaries will push him there.
The start of Mushroom Hill 2 (while offscreen) progresses more slowly than normal because all of the loops are broken (they are impenetrable walls that must be jumped on top of) and the springs and other objects are not there.
In Sandopolis 1, I don't use Tails to bypass the red spring under the sand river because it's not enough faster to avoid the next wait for a timed object.
I found a way to skip the midboss of Launch Base 2 that would save time, except it causes the timer to not stop for the extremely long cutscene.
The Launch Base 1 boss is "afraid" of Sonic and moves up when Sonic is in the air nearby it, so it's faster to kill it with Tails alone and keep Sonic always under it.
Sonic can't touch any of those moving platforms in Flying Battery without losing the glitch.
It's possible to zip further into the level in Launch Base 1, but doing so would skip the speed shoes and ultimately be slightly slower.
No death
Aims for fastest (primarily in-level) time
Ignores delays caused by bonus effects
Takes damage to save time
Abuses programming errors in the game (a lot)
Manipulates luck (a little)
One player controls two characters
Emulator used: Gens Movie Test 9j (works with 9f, etc.)
I was thinking of a screenie either in the upside down level, or when he's glitching and it looks like Sonic is running downhill while simultaneously sinking through the floor.
I was thinking
Early enough in as not to be a spoiler.
But illustrative of the level of glitching to be expected throughout the entire run.
Edit: I went ahead and posted it. If people are upset, I'll change it back.
[Edit by Bisqwit: Updated URL; you overwrote my file]
Edit: Sorry -- It wasn't on purpose.
That would explain why the backup I downloaded looked just like the file I'd just uploaded.
How fleeting are all human passions compared with the massive continuity of ducks.
Funniest moment of the run is in Flying Battery Zone when Sonic runs in that weird tilted mode and changes direction at about 19:17 in the avi file. Reminded me a lot about the ocarina of time slippers momentum turnaround thing. Wouldn't make a good screenshot, so I don't know why I'm posting, but it made me laugh.
EDIT: Actually I have no idea which screenshot Upthorn was talking about, because he linked to something that will change whenever the current screenshot changes.
knsonic2nz2.png is the one he posted.
knsonic2nz.png is the one I posted (and you substituted with a better quality version of the same shot).
I updated the URL in upthorn's posting to point to the one he meant.
(Precise history:
1. I posted knsonic2nz.png
2. He posted knsonic2nz2.png
3. He posted knsonic2nz.png, overwriting my file, and linked to this at the forums
4. I renamed his newest file into knsonic2nz2.png, and put back my own knsonic2nz.png -- movies page still linking to upthorn's file, but upthorn's post now linking to my file
5. JXQ posted, possibly reading my shot (that was now shown in upthorn's post) as Upthorn's and Upthorn's shot (shown at movies page) as mine (because of mandatory contrast)
6, Nitsuja replaced knsonic2nz.png (my file) with a better quality version, and changed the movie page to feature it instead of knsonic2nz2.png. Movies page now shows my shot (optimized by nitsuja).
7. I edited Upthorn's post to link to his own file insted of mine
)
Of Hydrocity 2? There's nothing going on in that shot.
To drag out the (now infamous) example of Link's Awakening DX, the screenshot someone first uploaded and I improved showed a bit of action (Link hookshot-glitching over the giant pit) -- I found Bisqwit had replaced it with the current screenshot that shows no action. His reason? It had more color and life than the boring, rust-colored cave that was originally there.
Thinking about it again, I agree with his decision.
Upthorn's screenshot may show a lot of action, but it's incredibly ugly and an eyesore.
The original screenshot of Layb^H^H^H^H^H Hydrocity 2 has no action, but looks better and is more pleasing to the eyes.
I believe the current screenshot (Mushroom Zone boss) is an adequate compromise to both. Colorful and pretty, while still showing Robotnik getting his shiny metal buttocks kicked.
(but then again, I'm just mostly a lurker.)
For the Mushroom Hill 2 and Launch Base 2 screenshots, both of those are in cutscenes and are about what you will normally see when you get to that point in a Sonic and Tails game. For the Angel Island 1 screenshot, it has an unsettlingly ugly background.
Hydrocity 2 was my idea because it looks nice, it is in the actual gameplay, it is one of those rare moments where both Sonic and Tails are onscreen and not curled up into a ball, it is something of a glitch that Sonic is walking instead of rolling there despite having just done a spindash, and it is certain to not be in any later revisions of the movie.
My suggestions are:
But, obviously it doesn't matter very much whatever the screenshot is.
Yeah, it's surprisingly difficult to find a good screenshot of this run.
The glitched up title bar on Angel Island 1 is ugly, and Sonic is rolling, while Tails is barely onscreen.
After that, the next "glitchy" screenshot I can get (wherein the game is obviously being broken, in a still frame), would be in Carnival Night, but Sonic is barely onscreen in it, Tails is not visible at all, and it's quite off-center.
And after that, all the good glitchy screenshots are spoiler-ific.
How fleeting are all human passions compared with the massive continuity of ducks.
I made a bunch of screenshots and put them here: http://nrg.gotdns.com/etc/s3ktas/
Though I apparently took them at double size. Maybe there might be something decent.
Joined: 10/17/2005
Posts: 629
Location: Seattle, WA
If there's any one movie that I wish was on Google Video so I could show all kinds of people its awesomeness, this would be it. I've shared some links to preposted movies before, and I simply can't wait for this game's avi to be available for sharing, cause this is just awesome, just awesome.
JXQ posted, possibly reading my shot (that was now shown in upthorn's post) as Upthorn's and Upthorn's shot (shown at movies page) as mine (because of mandatory contrast)
Hydrocity 2 I thought was Bisqwit's screenshot, but is nitsuja's. Angel Island 1 I thought was upthorn's screenshot. Was Bisqwit's Mushroom Hill 2?
I also didn't like the Hydrocity one because the colors in it are so bland due to the water.
I picked Launch Base because there are many colors on the screen, and all three characters are on screen, two of them in interesting poses. Other levels I personally like the colors of include Sandopolis 1 and Ice Cap, but Ice Cap zone is pretty much useless for a screenshot (though the above one is nice).
I don't think the screenshot doesn't need to show a glitch or some TASing aspect, because you watch the movie for that. If you want to show a glitch then an animated gif is much more appropriate in most situations. Then we could have Ice Cap zone flying by, giving me a headache.
Edit: of NrgSpoon's, I like 037.
<Swordless> Go hug a tree, you vegetarian (I bet you really are one)
Protip: Do not watch this movie while drinking a carbonated beverage.
Oops. Haha, and I about lost that beverage too. But I enjoyed every minute of it. Twice. I owe the carbonated expulsion to the stunt Carnival Zone (which was then used again multiple times later, most notably in Ice Cap)
Star kthx.
Yeah, I think that's the best choice out of mine that's the least spoilerific; people familiar with the game will realize that something is off, too. Also, I was trying to get that Mushroom Hill screen that nitsuja posted, but I missed on both ends.
I owe the carbonated expulsion to the stunt Carnival Zone (which was then used again multiple times later, most notably in Ice Cap)
Actually the Carnival Night 1 trick only happens that one time. It tricks the game into thinking Sonic is on one of those carousel wheels no matter where he goes, so he can walk up walls and ceilings without falling, and when he walks off an edge the game pushes him rapidly in some direction in hopes of getting him back on the wheel. I used the curves in the level to slingshot around until it thought Sonic was on the right side of the wheel, so it pushed him left through the left edge of the level. It's possible to keep that glitch into act 2, but it's useless there and would mean a slower act 1 boss fight, so I cancel it by jumping (off of the wheel, so the game thinks).
That's quite different from the glitch used in Icecap and Flying Battery. That one makes it think Sonic is on a non-curving sprite-based object, and can only be cancelled by getting on a real sprite-based object such as the button on a capsule. Instead of pushing Sonic down when he walks off an edge and letting him walk up curves onto walls, it won't even attempt to make Sonic follow the surface of the level and will let him stand in the air. Also, it makes it almost impossible to spindash because it usually acts as if Sonic is standing on the edge of some object even if he's on the ground. The Icecap boss would have been a few seconds slower without somehow getting Tails there in time, because Sonic couldn't spindash and had no lightning shield.
JXQ wrote:
Oh, does that mean the improvements really aren't?
No, they are, but it makes them more difficult to make than they should be.
EDIT: Found a drastically different Hydrocity 2 route that is faster and avoids any possible interaction with timed objects, so no wait needs to be added after act 1. But Lava Reef 2 isn't working out well.
Early enough in as not to be a spoiler.
But illustrative of the level of glitching to be expected throughout the entire run.
Edit: I went ahead and posted it. If people are upset, I'll change it back.
[Edit by Bisqwit: Updated URL; you overwrote my file]
Edit: Sorry -- It wasn't on purpose.
That would explain why the backup I downloaded looked just like the file I'd just uploaded.
But, obviously it doesn't matter very much whatever the screenshot is.
