That's right. Surprisingly doing a turnaround is more than 10 realtime frames faster than the crouch exit (while same fast in ingame time). Though I have some doubts moozooh meant the difference in realtime frames when he always went for ingame time before. But yeah, this could be the only possible explanation for that statement.
Feel free to correct us, moozooh.
EDIT:
For those who wonder, we solved the misunderstanding:
IRC wrote:
[23:57] <moozooh> Saturn_: i said the skip itself was slower, not the escape alone. i just double-checked and i still don't see anything wrong. the starting reference point i chose was landing in torizo's room, since everything before that was too different and thus difficult to compare. the ending reference point was x=500 in the pre-torizo room on the way back. everything is correct.
[23:58] <Saturn_> so you gained 2 frames "before" collecting the bombs
[00:00] <moozooh> yes. the jump is part of the skip.
Moozooh saved 2 frames before actually grabbing the bombs, which was expected. I just didn't consider this as a "part of the skip" at first.
I took the liberty to update my RBO run.
Yay!
It covers the Gauntlet, green Brinstar Etecoon area (10 energy without annoying beeping), pink brinstar SS super missiles and reverse gate energy tank, spazer, and finally elevator to Norfair, where the movie ends. As usual, feel free to poke holes into it. I feel rather content with this update.
Enjoy ;]
Edit:
Saturn wrote:
Moozooh saved 2 frames before actually grabbing the bombs, which was expected. I just didn't consider this as a "part of the skip" at first.
It indeed was expected; if you check the jump before the pickup in frame advance, you can see me blindly going back and forth to get into the right position. I also considered "Torizo skip" to start after the Morph Ball Bomb sign had disappeared, so I was rather confused. (Since the torizo skip does not have a frame window of success)
Joined: 11/14/2005
Posts: 1058
Location: United States
sweet WIP kriole. Other than a few tiny frame savers here and there, I don't see any large mistakes. I did notice somethings about the route however;
Since you did not use a power bomb to collect the charge beam, you should have collected it the first time through. It might have saved you some missiles.
The other thing that bothered me was that you skipped the blue brinstar energy tank. I don't think you will have enough energy to kill ridley now, unless you use the pause glitch. Going to blue brinstar would have also given you another PB tank and missile tank.
looking forward to your next wip.
Woah! Nice CWJ in the first Gauntlet room. The quality of all this is really impressive Kriole, kudos. I especially like it how you have 10 energy left and no beeping sound. :D
Couldn't have you done one more corner boost on your way to the etecoon items in the room before the 4 Beetoms?
And this one's just a thought, but could've you jumped over that hole into the super missiles and collect the etank on the way back, this way you wouldn't lose momentum on your way left but if it's faster to go forward armpumping from there...
And in the spike room could've you taken some kind of damage boost to the far left position on that ledge and ran to the etecoon room?
Was there a reason not to use a PB in dachora room? Save them to CF later?
Could've it been possible to jump to that grapple block while still opening the gate? I think here you could've saved some time.
Haha quite a list I hope these will be answered. I think 95% of these I thought wrong and you did the faster way, but it doesn't hurt to ask. :) Anyway really good job.
<Deign> .dice 1d1999191023443691
<BisqBot> Deign rolls a blackhole and destroys the planet.
Nice WIP, fells like you could have used more PB's in gauntlet though to save time, I know you need a bunch of them later but for example you could get 4 of them at the beetoms before the pre dachora room which would certainly take less time than you'd save at gauntlet.
As hero I to am a little uncertain about your energy, hopefully you know what you are doing...
The other thing that bothered me was that you skipped the blue brinstar energy tank. I don't think you will have enough energy to kill ridley now, unless you use the pause glitch. Going to blue brinstar would have also given you another PB tank and missile tank.
Thanks for pointing this out, rather big mistake I did here. I will redo that part.
Tonski wrote:
Couldn't have you done one more corner boost on your way to the etecoon items in the room before the 4 Beetoms?
I could have, but it would get me longer from the door while it still was open. Would have wasted about 20-30 frames.
Tonski wrote:
And this one's just a thought, but could've you jumped over that hole into the super missiles and collect the etank on the way back, this way you wouldn't lose momentum on your way left but if it's faster to go forward armpumping from there...
I tested this, only to come to the conclusion that you need a very high speed, much more than 2.0 px/f to carry out the jump all the way to the super missiles without touching the ground. Also mockballing does not help, since you have to de-morph to get the missiles. In other words, speedbooster is needed to do that.
Tonski wrote:
And in the spike room could've you taken some kind of damage boost to the far left position on that ledge and ran to the etecoon room?
That is a possible improvement which does not save that much time, since I jump nearly as soon as I touch the ground.
Tonski wrote:
Was there a reason not to use a PB in dachora room? Save them to CF later?
Let's blame ammo shortage, the real reason being ignorance.
Tonski wrote:
Could've it been possible to jump to that grapple block while still opening the gate? I think here you could've saved some time.
Jumping to the grapple block is impossible, but getting there might be possible with some complex MBB jumping, which I did not even care to test. Falling down also gives me the missile refill.
Edit:
Cpadolf wrote:
Nice WIP, fells like you could have used more PB's in gauntlet though to save time, I know you need a bunch of them later but for example you could get 4 of them at the beetoms before the pre dachora room which would certainly take less time than you'd save at gauntlet.
With the energy I had at that moment, it was impossible to get those beetoms to drop power bombs.
Looks pretty good. Nice new strategies in the gauntlet and during the Wave Beam gate before pink Brinstars E-Tank.
The only major mistake you did is not killing the 4 drainer all with one Missile shot in the small room right before the Etecoon E-Tank. You would get 4 very important PB's for only ~20 frames of delay. That way you would also save a ton of time using a PB for the bomb block barrier in the long pink Brinstar room connecting the mainstreet room and Spore Spawn's area. If you're not too far in Norfair yet, I would advice to redo the run from that small drainer room to get the 4 missing PB refills, as they would definitely save you a couple more seconds in Norfair as well. Though I know that redoing a pretty big part like this sucks, so if you are willing to accept losing some time and generally have more troubles in Norfair with PB's, then you could still try to continue.
Other than this, the quality of the run looks really good so far. Keep it up.
Kriole wrote:
It indeed was expected; if you check the jump before the pickup in frame advance, you can see me blindly going back and forth to get into the right position. I also considered "Torizo skip" to start after the Morph Ball Bomb sign had disappeared, so I was rather confused. (Since the torizo skip does not have a frame window of success)
Yeah, thats exactly what I meant before. We should try using more descriptive methods when mentioning frame differences in areas that aren't obvious to everybody.
EDIT:
I see now. Well, then you should definitely have enough energy to get this 4 PBs. They will save alot of time later.
You being good at it, did you try CWJ off the ledge there? You don't have to get all the way to the bombs with that jump. And if even that doesn't hope, maybe morph ball bounce? CWJ + morph ball bounce combo?
Btw before you go on redoing that part redo it all the way from the Dachora room, you'll be getting more PBs so you can now use one there, I think it'll save a nice chunk of time.
Also I don't think that jumping to that grapple block is impossible.
<Deign> .dice 1d1999191023443691
<BisqBot> Deign rolls a blackhole and destroys the planet.
I think I will actually cope with the amount of power bombs I have at the time.
I've seen skrees drop super missiles, do they actually drop power bombs? Would be handy to know. (Those green thingies charging at you from above)
You mean the bats in Red Brinstar before Spazer? No, they only drop Energy and Missiles often, and Supers only in very rare cases. Except the drainer, there are no enemies that drop PB's before Norfair to my knowledge. There are a few other enemies that do drop PBs, but like with Supers from the bats, only in very rare cases (Rio - the big yellow flyer from Brinstar for example).
I finally got around to compare my movie to moozooh's NBMB WIP movie, taken that he said he was 70 frames ahead of me. However, upon entering the corridor before the elevator to Green Brinstar you are 11 frames ahead of me, not 70. You maybe checked realtime frames? What do I know.
Also he lost ~20 frames in ceres by not optimizing it.
Anyway how is you progress on the RBO? (or any one else's progress on any other run for that matter)
I and Taco bring you incredible news.
Recently Taco improved the run from the elevator to Ridley from the "perfect" 801 frames to 800 frames, though it did not go public until today. This did not only put us equal to Saturn's 3130, it did even give us the chance to improve it to 3129!
So, this very day, I was discussing possible improvements with Taco. I said that I managed to improve the last door from "84 to "87 but still get 49"13. Taco directly plunged into this, with his new 800 frame run at hand he improved the 49"13. Well, to what you all probably know.
I proudly present 3129
We believe that this is the ABSOLUTE perfect run whatsoever. Incredible amount of kudos to the one to improve this.
EDIT: Taco requested that I gave myself some more credit. So I will add that it was I, Kriole, who found the last escape frame.
This is awesome, especially considering that I was perhaps the first one after Taco to see it :)
Saw it only minutes (seconds?) after it was created. (over msn)
I really hope he uses his seemingly extreme patience and creates a full run with this extreme quality.
The trick to release forward for one frame to get higher momentum thus making the turnaround jump without screwing up the last room is certainly weird...
Joined: 1/21/2008
Posts: 10
Location: I live on the Freaking Moon! o_O;;;...
Kriole wrote:
I and Taco bring you incredible news.
Recently Taco improved the run from the elevator to Ridley from the "perfect" 801 frames to 800 frames, though it did not go public until today. This did not only put us equal to Saturn's 3130, it did even give us the chance to improve it to 3129!
So, this very day, I was discussing possible improvements with Taco. I said that I managed to improve the last door from "84 to "87 but still get 49"13. Taco directly plunged into this, with his new 800 frame run at hand he improved the 49"13. Well, to what you all probably know.
I proudly present 3129
We believe that this is the ABSOLUTE perfect run whatsoever. Incredible amount of kudos to the one to improve this.
EDIT: Taco requested that I gave myself some more credit. So I will add that it was I, Kriole, who found the last escape frame.
YEA Taco! KRIOLE! Lol. Nice job! =]
...o_o also sorry for just "appearing" all of a sudden.
