It's not too much of a surprise that it saved a frame there… I've yet to see a conclusive proof it's impossible without it.
What I would like to know is, if using it at Ridley and probably Mother Brain will save time in some types of runs (which I think it will, due to less turnarounds), and whether it will interfere with someting else.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
Joined: 11/14/2005
Posts: 1057
Location: United States
I have been scouring the game for any tricks for the new 100% run. This one seemed pretty cool, so I figured I would post it. It's probably not much faster than the old method, but it looks awesome.
yo
Haha, awesome. That one ought to raise a few eyebrows. But is X-ray completely needed for it? It seems that it is and we won't have it at that point...
Nice find Taco. It was definitely unexpected to see that moonwalk could ever be of use in a speedrun. Too bad you will only benefit of this in Ceres due to it's stupid, unique doors, and only save 1 frame max on a few of them with some luck, so it's unfortunately still not worth to use in a realtime run because activating moonwalk will easily cost you more than a sec. Even in a in-game oriented run, I wouldn't bother to activate it just to save 1-5 frames in the entire game.
moozooh wrote:
I've yet to see a conclusive proof it's impossible without it.
Nothing holds you back to try it yourself to get your conclusive proof. It's kind of strange that you always show interest in finding improvements, yet don't make any effort at all to fulfill this interests. Keep waiting. That's the best choice a dependent TASer can have after all.
As for the LN speedball tech, nice find hero. Although it looks very impressive and unexpected, it is unfortunately more than 150 frames slower (yes I know, it sounds unbelievable) than using it the usual way. Just compared it. The reason is that you lose alot of time while bouncing towards the bomb blocks since it's extremely slow compared to a usual non-bouncing morphball move.
And yes, you need the X-Ray in any case for that trick because it's the only way to turn around without losing blue suit, just like it was showed in the "Temorary Blue Suit" demo as well.
that looks cool :)
is there some reason not to get X-Ray early on your way from Speed Booster to Wrecked Ship? Can't afford the energy/power bombs at that point?
edit: ah well, if it's slower, too bad. Still looks cool!
Too bad you will only benefit of this in Ceres due to it's stupid, unique doors, and only save 1 frame max on a few of them with some luck, so it's unfortunately still not worth to use in a realtime run because activating moonwalk will easily cost you more than a sec. Even in a in-game oriented run, I wouldn't bother to activate it just to save 1-5 frames in the entire game.
It will easily save more, and I'm pretty sure I know where. The only question is if it'll cost anything somewhere else due to direction lock.
Saturn wrote:
Nothing holds you back to try it yourself to get your conclusive proof. It's kind of strange that you always show interest in finding improvements, yet don't make any effort at all to fulfill this interests. Keep waiting. That's the best choice a dependent TASer can have after all.
Sure, thanks captain. What would I do without your advice?
For the record, I already tried that door almost a year ago, and came only about a pixel short from the door opening trigger without testing all possible positions (it's boring), so I'm sure it's possible. Obviously I'll tackle it more if moonwalk is not to be enabled, but that second question I can't answer myself yet as it can arise in any unpredictable place.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
It will easily save more, and I'm pretty sure I know where. The only question is if it'll cost anything somewhere else due to direction lock.
Giving a example would never hurt, as we could surely help you find out whether it really could be of benefit outside of Ceres, unless you plan it to be a surprise for your run of course.
moozooh wrote:
For the record, I already tried that door almost a year ago, and came only about a pixel short from the door opening trigger without testing all possible positions (it's boring), so I'm sure it's possible.
I, Taco, and many more too, and we all got the same result. And if even subpixel master Taco didn't manage to save a frame without moonwalk there (considering how much time and work he spent on Ceres alone, I'm sure he tried every possible combination), then I think this clearly speaks for itself. I realize that making realistic estimations isn't your cup of tea though. Hopefully you manage to improve this ability a bit more someday, as it can save you alot of unnecessary work in the end.
Giving a example would never hurt, as we could surely help you find out whether it really could be of benefit outside of Ceres, unless you plan it to be a surprise for your run of course.
Here. Haven't tested it yet, but I'm anticipating at least 1-2 frames of gain.
Saturn wrote:
I, Taco, and many more too, and we all got the same result. And if even subpixel master Taco didn't manage to save a frame without moonwalk there (considering how much time and work he spent on Ceres alone, I'm sure he tried every possible combination), then I think this clearly speaks for itself.
I talked to him about it personally. You clearly didn't. It doesn't make it any different from all the other situations that you've failed on, and others have succeeded.
Saturn wrote:
I realize that making realistic estimations isn't your cup of tea though.
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha hah a hahahah ahhaahh
HAHAHAHAAHAAH
…oh man!
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
Giving a example would never hurt, as we could surely help you find out whether it really could be of benefit outside of Ceres, unless you plan it to be a surprise for your run of course.
Here. Haven't tested it yet, but I'm anticipating at least 1-2 frames of gain.
That just proves it again. You land too far into the room in that smv, which is already somewhat slower than precisely landing on that platform in the previous room already (like Cpadolf did in his any%v2) if skipping the Spazer. The moonwalk will only be slower here, because you waste a frame stepping back for nothing.
I think everybody agrees that making false claims like this doesn't really help out except of yet again causing unnecessary confusion, so try to make a smv-proof next time in which you can clearly see the gained frames of the moonwalk compared to not using it.
moozooh wrote:
I talked to him about it personally. You clearly didn't. It doesn't make it any different from all the other situations that you've failed on, and others have succeeded.
Just to repeat the obvious again, we all got the same time at that door without moonwalk (hint: the previous post clearly mentioned that already). Whether you personally talked to him or not doesn't change anything as well.
You're right mmbossman, I was terribly wrong there. But I learned my lesson well by now and am very careful when making any claims. Most of the time I do so, I already have a actual smv-proof to confirm them if needed (unlike moozooh). I think the past few months showed that clearly.
Joined: 11/18/2006
Posts: 2426
Location: Back where I belong
Saturn wrote:
I think the past few months showed that clearly.
The only thing I've seen in the past few months is you making claims, and then Taco proving you wrong. And it hasn't just been once, it's been many times. As many before me have suggested, I will suggest again: Stop making claims altogether, because you look downright foolish when they all get proven wrong, time and again.
Here's another nugget of wisdom for you Saturn:
You can use .smv's as proof that something is possible. You can't, however, use smv's as proof that something is impossible. For example, saying "it's impossible to improve this because I have this smv right here" won't work out very well at all.
