It'll be difficult to be special if its public release is dependent upon it being matched or bettered by someone else's public release. The best response you'll be able to give is, "seen it already."
Good point. But what if the runs are from seperate categories, or if the run beats the other's time regardless of the fact that it contains old tricks? At that point, it is just an excuse to not progress.
I saved two seconds on the Ridley fight by switching to Geico.
Narrator: Neophos isn't a celebrity, so to help tell his story, we hired that dragon from the Metroid games.
Ridley:*smiles and waves hi*Neophos: I was just cruising along, when a stray intergalactic bounty hunter shinesparked right through my windshield.
Ridley: RAWR
Neophos: I called Geico. They were really nice and friendly and stuff.
Ridley: RAWR
Neophos: They fixed it all up in a couple of days.
Ridley: RAWR
Narrator: Geico. Huge savings on auto insurance.
Ridley:*spits some fire on a nearby Samus plushie, and smiles as it burns*
...oh yeah, awesome RBO WIP guys. Chalk up another one that can't wait for the finished version ^_^
Regarding the Dachora room, the reason I avoided to tell moozooh my true frame-achievements in it was simply because I didn't want to discourage him finding out that his version was a couple frames slower than mine. And since my time in that room was only achievable by using this complex, very subpixel optimized mockballs, it would be very unlikely he could manage to execute them correctly on his own, and therefore failing to match that time. I just didn't want him to get stuck in this room with a unsatisfied feeling to not be able to match my time. And spoiling that strategy would be a bad idea as well, since it would surely be a part of the surprise for the final run. To that time I just couldn't imagine that a SM-TAS machine like Taco could exist, who finds this sort of tricks. If I knew that back then, then I would probably show moozooh my mockball strategy anyway, so that he could simply copy it into his run. But as you see, this would be pretty boring and yet again kill all the uniqueness of his run in that room, and I so like to see own and individual work, no matter whether it's slower or not (Tonski's SMI TAS is a great example).
okaygo wrote:
I might release a WIP, but I'd rather you figure this one out for yourself.
Yeah, that's for the better. No need to overfeed the copycats who have nothing else to do than to wait exactly for that over the past year. Figuring stuff out on his own is the only way to gain knowledge, which is required in order to ever finish a full SM run that meets the current standard here.
Larkin:
Yeah, it will be special. Don't be misled by other people who try to tell you the otherwise without ever seeing my run.
Yeah, it will be special. Don't be misled by other people who try to tell you the otherwise without ever seeing my run.
Correction: it would be special if you actually shared it while you still had something unique to share. It's not getting any more special by just sitting there untouched and unwatched for all eternity while the other competent players whittle away at your achievements.
And since my time in that room was only achievable by using this complex, very subpixel optimized mockballs, it would be very unlikely he could manage to execute them correctly on his own, and therefore failing to match that time. I just didn't want him to get stuck in this room with a unsatisfied feeling to not be able to match my time.
Indeed, optimizing three mockballs after managing a Torizo skip would just break my will and make me hate the game for life.
(I want to smoke this stuff too, sounds like some inane hallucinations are a given.)
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
Joined: 6/11/2006
Posts: 818
Location: Arboga, Sweden
Saturn wrote:
Lots of pride talk
Do you really think it will matter when we are counting our karma for the afterlife who truly found a trick which saves 1/20 of a second?
I sure hope the talk about warnings you were given a while back was true.
If so, third strike and you are out.
Warp wrote:
omg lol this is so fake!!!1 the nes cant produce music like this!
1 frame compared to the current frame counts that have been released or compared to the secret adjusted frame counts no one knows about just yet?
Obvious troll, trying to say that my method isn't real, when infact I have been spending countless hours reversing the game. My private any% run is currently dominating the published run, and all the public WIP's. I have used a modified version of SNES to achieve this accuracy, testing nearly every combination possible for a room at a time on my dedicated quad core, 64bit cpu with 8 gigs of ram. You should see some of the interesting things it came up with... and I'm not done searching.
So please, don't troll me...
Okaygo: Your quad core computer is nothing compared to my personal Beowulf cluster of 10,000 highly trained monkeys well versed in super metroid tasing, given bananas only when they save a frame.
I have no intention of posting the result, however, and instead will simply claim I invented the word 'strawberries' when ever a new Super Metroid TAS is submitted. I will wax on about moozoohs being lazy, the sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament.
I actually completed Super Metroid in negative 3 frames. It happens before I even start the emulator.
Sage advice from a friend of Jim: So put your tinfoil hat back in the closet, open your eyes to the truth, and realize that the government is in fact causing austismal cancer with it's 9/11 fluoride vaccinations of your water supply.
Indeed, optimizing three mockballs after managing a Torizo skip would just break my will and make me hate the game for life.
Well, if the mockball bombs would be so obvious for you to find, then it's really strange why you didn't use them in your latest WIP, especially when you say that you already had the idea to use them there. Seems like it wasn't the case after all.
Well, if the mockball bombs would be so obvious for you to find, then it's really strange why you didn't use them in your latest WIP, especially when you say that you already had the idea to use them there. Seems like it wasn't the case after all.
Would be a waste to spend a hefty amount of time to optimize some really tedious mockballs in a testrun. He had that of improvements for a reason, to test all those hard to optimize timesavers later in the real run.
EDIT: Oh my, too late.
Joined: 6/22/2007
Posts: 181
Location: Eastern Michigan University
DarkKobold wrote:
okaygo wrote:
Fabian wrote:
1 frame compared to the current frame counts that have been released or compared to the secret adjusted frame counts no one knows about just yet?
Obvious troll, trying to say that my method isn't real, when infact I have been spending countless hours reversing the game. My private any% run is currently dominating the published run, and all the public WIP's. I have used a modified version of SNES to achieve this accuracy, testing nearly every combination possible for a room at a time on my dedicated quad core, 64bit cpu with 8 gigs of ram. You should see some of the interesting things it came up with... and I'm not done searching.
So please, don't troll me...
Okaygo: Your quad core computer is nothing compared to my personal Beowulf cluster of 10,000 highly trained monkeys well versed in super metroid tasing, given bananas only when they save a frame.
I have no intention of posting the result, however, and instead will simply claim I invented the word 'strawberries' when ever a new Super Metroid TAS is submitted. I will wax on about moozoohs being lazy, the sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament.
I actually completed Super Metroid in negative 3 frames. It happens before I even start the emulator.
I'm sure it will be special Saturn, I wasn't trying to be a sarcastic twat although it probably came across similarly.
I think SuperJupi nailed it though, it would have been mindblowing back when it was discovered.
I'm not sure what your motivation for the run is, but it can't be for the good of the community or the like as you would have shared your work and probably aided some of the more commited members working on it currently.
And I think it's also kinda unfair to claim Moozooh rips off your moves or techniques, he's consistently shown in the past that he has an uncanny knack to fuck the game over five ways from Friday, I'm pretty sure he could have discovered whatever he says he has.
I hate conflict and always sit on my arse in a backseat position, but when I read that you'd deliberatly mislead people with your frame counts to try and preserve your own movie/pride I just wanted to chirp in.
That all said and done, I do still look forward to your TAS greatly as i'm sure it will still be as impressive, if not more so than your previous work.
Joined: 11/14/2005
Posts: 1057
Location: United States
Twelvepack wrote:
Saturn wrote:
Yeah, it will be special. Don't be misled by other people who try to tell you the otherwise without ever seeing my run.
doesn't it have several obsoleted room strategies? What is special about an un-published, obsoleted run?
Yes, it is very out of date by today's standards. In fact, his new any% demo that got leaked a few weeks ago is also out of date. There have been countless new room strategies since he started his original run a few years ago. I would be hard pressed to call it special, but maybe he has a few things in the run which have yet to be discovered. I cannot even think of a reason for him to post the original run, since he started a new one anyway.
I am also a bit disappointed to hear that Saturn lied to moozooh about something as petty as a microscopic room strategy. Who the hell is going to notice a 1 frame saving mockball? The casual viewer sure doesn't give a shit. Seasoned vets of the game might notice, but that audience consists of about 10 people. Seems like a stupid thing to lie about.
I am also a bit disappointed to hear that Saturn lied to moozooh about something as petty as a microscopic room strategy. Who the hell is going to notice a 1 frame saving mockball? The casual viewer sure doesn't give a shit. Seasoned vets of the game might notice, but that audience consists of about 10 people. Seems like a stupid thing to lie about.
That's what I was going to say but might've sounded stupid from me. Anyway all this stuff is just stupid.
Larkin:
I don't deny moozooh has good TAS skills (almost as good as his talking skills), but the past has also showed that he often made surprisingly clueless claims that were proved wrong later. And that's also the reason he doesn't provide a smv-proof like everybody else. There is a huge difference between talk and real achievements, and that's something he really should realize someday.
hero of the day wrote:
Twelvepack wrote:
doesn't it have several obsoleted room strategies? What is special about an un-published, obsoleted run?
Yes, it is very out of date by today's standards. In fact, his new any% demo that got leaked a few weeks ago is also out of date. There have been countless new room strategies since he started his original run a few years ago. I would be hard pressed to call it special, but maybe he has a few things in the run which have yet to be discovered. I cannot even think of a reason for him to post the original run, since he started a new one anyway.
My old any% is still over the current standard in terms of quality overall, so I wouldn't call it "very" outdated. With "special" I actually meant the new run I plan to make soon. You will know why when it's finished.
hero of the day wrote:
I am also a bit disappointed to hear that Saturn lied to moozooh about something as petty as a microscopic room strategy.
As said before, I didn't want to disappoint him finding out that his time was slower in that room. And since he didn't know about the mockball strategy by the time he posted his latest WIP (as he said), there would be no way for him to match that time without it. So after he asked me for my frame counts, I was basicly forced to lie for good sake. Hope this clears things up a bit.
[...] but the past has also showed that he often made surprisingly clueless claims that were proved wrong later. And that's also the reason he doesn't provide a smv-proof like everybody else. There is a huge difference between talk and real achievements, and that's something he really should realize someday. [...]
So basically you're telling him off for doing the exact same thing you did? Wow.
Everybody knows that the only claim I did on something that is possible without showing a smv was my Ceres escape time before it got matched by Taco. Otherwise I have always provided a smv for them. And just to repeat what was said many times before, all my claims (no matter whether a smv is provided or not) are based on real achievements. I'm not that kind of guy who relys on simple thoughts, despite being right in 99% of cases in them anyway. It's just not enough.
I'm sciencing as fast as I can !
______________________________________
<adelikat> once more balls enter the picture, everything gets a lot more entertraining
<adelikat> mmmmm yummy penises
The best achievement Saturn could do right now instead of making people not care about his posts, is to stop all his other runs and work hard on an up-to-date SM run---a run of which he possibly mentioned in his last post. Though personally, I'd like to see him do it after a couple other runs are finished (RBO? 100%?); after all, that's how the most improvements are made, along with individual ideas of course.
(Can't tell him what to do, obviously, but it would technically be the best option for his TAS reputation that he cares about so much.)
Saturn wrote:
Everybody knows that the only claim I did on something that is possible without showing a smv was my Ceres escape time before it got matched by Taco. Otherwise I have always provided a smv for them. And just to repeat what was said many times before, all my claims (no matter whether a smv is provided or not) are based on real achievements. I'm not that kind of guy who relys on simple thoughts, despite being right in 99% of cases in them anyway. It's just not enough.
Well what about having a 30 frames faster torizo fight compared to JXQ, you where holding that for a long time. (released it first when moozooh prefomed the torizo skip) Or having a ~50 frames faster phantoon fight than JXQ. (though no one ever asked for that one, and it's figured out now anyway)
I'm sure there are more but I won't bother searching for them. The thing is that you mostly do what is much worse, you don't tell about your achievements even when they are highly relevant to others (for example 13 second faster MB fight that JXQ could have had in his 100% run and that jump in the first heated norfair room which has been relevant for basically every run out there) and as it recently became clear even lie about your achivements to make it harder for people to find them.
I'll stop arguing now I think, I can waste my time talking to a donkey or a doorknob or something instead.
Can everyone please stop fucking talking about Saturn. We don't need all this claim counter claim shit espeacially when we're talking about narrow frames margins.
Joined: 11/21/2007
Posts: 94
Location: United States
the only reason we are talking about him is because he rarely ever shows anything. I dont blame him for not having finished a run yet, because it takes a while to go through every room "perfectly". but if he knows he wouln't be able to do it for a while *cough old any% cough* then he should show us what he's found. it's not about who beats the game the fastest (well, it is a little) it's about how fast the game can be beaten. isn't that the purpose of a speedrun, to see how fast the game can be beaten? I'd rather not TAS than deal with Saturn all the time.
Current TAS Project:
SMR 100% TAS - 12.5% of the way done with the initial route (I'm going to then release it for further improvments)
