How much did it save to crouch in the first RB shaft, 1 frame, 2?
Did you save anything in the PB room?
Did you save anything over the falling video I made for the pre PB room?
1 frame.
Uhm, maybe, but our entering speed was lower, so there was no real gain.
No.
Joined: 11/21/2007
Posts: 94
Location: United States
nice WIP T+K. why exactly can't a super missile go through a gate if it's on the left side as easily as if it was on the right side? is there something special about hitboxes or something?
Current TAS Project:
SMR 100% TAS - 12.5% of the way done with the initial route (I'm going to then release it for further improvments)
why exactly can't a super missile go through a gate if it's on the left side as easily as if it was on the right side? is there something special about hitboxes or something?
It can. It's just that there are no right-sided gates in the game that have enough runway before them.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
why exactly can't a super missile go through a gate if it's on the left side as easily as if it was on the right side? is there something special about hitboxes or something?
Firing up and left gets a big boost to position. There is not reason for firing up and left to have a big boost in position, it just does.
My 2c on Saturn:
I rarely ever think of tricks in the game as belonging to anyone, except maybe Nintendo. Even if they never know about them. We're just playing around with their engine, we're not actually creating anything ourselves.
Because of that, I don't see the point of keeping this sort of thing secret until publication. But if you really want to insist on keeping it secret, then go the whole way and don't even mention or suggest that any of it exists till you're done. If someone else publishes something you used, too bad. That's just more reason to finish your run sooner.
And since I have nothing else constructive to say about the issue, I'm not going to talk about it again.
Edit: yay misplaced paragraphs
kwinse wrote:
Kejardon wrote:
Kriole wrote:
Samus is damaged by a Rinka in the opening.
That's a script action; no damage.
... it just dawned on me I know way too much about SM.
We're just playing around with their engine, we're not actually creating anything ourselves.
I disagree. Would you also say that Beethoven never created anything, as he was just playing around with notes?
Any kind of creation, artistically or otherwise, is based on previous works. Even just combining previous works in a clever way can be a noteworthy achievement. That's what enables a society to evolve.
I disagree. Would you also say that Beethoven never created anything, as he was just playing around with notes?
Any kind of creation, artistically or otherwise, is based on previous works. Even just combining previous works in a clever way can be a noteworthy achievement. That's what enables a society to evolve.
There's a line where on one side you have a 'creation' that really isn't anything new, and on the other side you have a 'creation' that really deserves to be called something new. Opinions differ as to where exactly that line is drawn.
As for speedrunning Super Metroid, the community already has the same general goal. There is only a handful of 'perfect' possibilities, and everyone is striving for them; there is little room for style, which I would consider a significant part of a creation.
An actual creation would be stuff like JXQ's run with the 5-player input. The goal of entertaining has an extraordinarily huge range of possibilities, and you can't really define a perfect entertainment. Each person is likely to have unique goals to accomplish, and the ideal targets everyone works for don't converge. There's style.
kwinse wrote:
Kejardon wrote:
Kriole wrote:
Samus is damaged by a Rinka in the opening.
That's a script action; no damage.
... it just dawned on me I know way too much about SM.
I disagree. Would you also say that Beethoven never created anything, as he was just playing around with notes?
Any kind of creation, artistically or otherwise, is based on previous works. Even just combining previous works in a clever way can be a noteworthy achievement. That's what enables a society to evolve.
How can you compare finding some few frame speedtricks in a video game to a man that composed 9 symphonies while going deaf at the same time?
<Deign> .dice 1d1999191023443691
<BisqBot> Deign rolls a blackhole and destroys the planet.
Ugh, let go. It's already bad when SM experts quarrel and argue over stupid things, but when others chime in just to take part in flaming and bashing, that's even worse. :\
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
I honestly hope this era will pass somehow maybe Saturn will post his any% and then the SM community would go to the friendly-phase again. There's just too much tension in the air compared to 100 pages ago.
And a random idea here, shooting those green pirates after diagonal room in Crateria made their hitboxes bigger allowing to take a damage boost earlier thus saving frames, is this considered to be used elsewhere too? Now I'm thinking of that pink brinstar pipe bug, maybe if it exploding (the explosion) would have a bigger hitbox it might be useful for a frame or two? I know it's a long shot like my ideas usually, too bad I can't test it for myself because my laptop is broken, but generally I was wondering if taking advantage of this has been used elsewhere.
Like probably we could've used it near Kraid in our SM:I TASes with CPadolf but it's too late now. :)
<Deign> .dice 1d1999191023443691
<BisqBot> Deign rolls a blackhole and destroys the planet.
Pipe bug's explosion doesn't cause damage, which is why you can jump right through it if you want to. Coming to think of it, I can't name many enemy whose explosion does damage you. The only one I can think of offhand is the kago spore.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
Methodical robotic thinking will most likely result in the subpixel and small frame optimisations.
Thinking outside the box is where the crazy tricks will be discovered! Keep at it and good luck!
Edit: Grammar and poor word choice.
Like probably we could've used it near Kraid in our SM:I TASes with CPadolf but it's too late now. :)
I think I actually did test earlier boosting of the green pirate after kraid in my SM:I TAS, first time I ever tried that quirk for a timesaver. Didn't save time though so I took it out, taking that boost earlier has no benefits.
And a random idea here, shooting those green pirates after diagonal room in Crateria made their hitboxes bigger allowing to take a damage boost earlier thus saving frames, is this considered to be used elsewhere too? Now I'm thinking of that pink brinstar pipe bug, maybe if it exploding (the explosion) would have a bigger hitbox it might be useful for a frame or two?
The space pirates make use of multiple hitboxes. This is fairly unusual, the main enemies that actually use multiple hitboxes are bosses (Draygon is pretty noticeable, as the section you attack doesn't hurt you).
kwinse wrote:
Kejardon wrote:
Kriole wrote:
Samus is damaged by a Rinka in the opening.
That's a script action; no damage.
... it just dawned on me I know way too much about SM.
Fair enough. Though if you are simply copying your old run and adding a few new techs, shouldn't you be able to finish the entire run in a short period of time?
If I would have the needed freetime and motivation, I could finish one in a month or so. But as of now, I lack both of them (especially the former). Besides I promised to work on SMR again since it was on hold for almost a whole year by now. And cancelling it again for another run would be a bad choice, I think. It's also more interesting for me to TAS, since there is alot of new stuff I have to test.
Tonski wrote:
I wonder how can you claim to beat almost all of the frame counts of Kriole and Taco with no smv proof.
Superjupi summed it up well, nothing more to add here.
Kriole wrote:
Yaaaaay!
Brinstar improved by 16 frames.
- 1 frame at the early super missile room door
- 2 frames for an improved pipebug spike before the charge beam
- 2 frames for an improved charge beam pickup
- 11 frames for an improved green brinstar pipebug room; 9 for the mockball, 2 for the door transition.
Smart guys, without doubt. :-)
The mockball before the gate in the big green Brinstar room was pretty obvious though (to me at least), since you can keep all the momentum before the jump on the small platform that way, pretty much like I did in my 3rd RBO demo. I realize that there are some limitations to shoot the gate due to the lacking wave beam though, which eventually could slow you down slightly.
Tub wrote:
Kejardon wrote:
We're just playing around with their engine, we're not actually creating anything ourselves.
I disagree. Would you also say that Beethoven never created anything, as he was just playing around with notes?
Any kind of creation, artistically or otherwise, is based on previous works. Even just combining previous works in a clever way can be a noteworthy achievement. That's what enables a society to evolve.
Very well said. It's of course not comparable to Beethoven in terms of achievements and the amount of work put into it, but the general principle is the same in both cases.
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/555510500/sesam_OPENIT.smv
i know hero found that and i know that might not be usefull at that point where i use it, but ive got few questions: does this trick only work from a right to the left door? i never found any other direction type working just right to left
and how can i found more of those doors/linked openings? ram address map etc ?
Any kind of creation, artistically or otherwise, is based on previous works. Even just combining previous works in a clever way can be a noteworthy achievement. That's what enables a society to evolve.
Creating a sculpture out of clay wouldn't require any kind of inspiration. Unless, of course, you want to get technical and claim that "clay" is <deity of choice>'s work or "evolutions work", however that would work (hur hur what a clever pun).
I agree with the rest, though.
Joined: 11/14/2005
Posts: 1058
Location: United States
evilchen wrote:
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/555510500/sesam_OPENIT.smv
i know hero found that and i know that might not be usefull at that point where i use it, but ive got few questions: does this trick only work from a right to the left door? i never found any other direction type working just right to left
and how can i found more of those doors/linked openings? ram address map etc ?
Yeah it only work for doors on the left side of the screen. It works in a bunch of rooms, it just requires finding the correct positioning. It has fairly no use in a run other than the one used in CP's run 2 rooms before ridley.
technically, certain rooms could allow you to hit lower doors on any particular right edge by firing to the left. The setup required for it is very particular though, and probably doesn't exist in the game. I haven't looked to see if any are even possible, let alone useful.
It's part of how the block lookup overflows when the beam reaches outside of the room. To the right simply starts over to the left side of the room but shifts it down a row. To the left acts like going right 255 screens, and you have to crunch some numbers and room values to figure out exactly what blocks you're going to hit.
kwinse wrote:
Kejardon wrote:
Kriole wrote:
Samus is damaged by a Rinka in the opening.
That's a script action; no damage.
... it just dawned on me I know way too much about SM.
