Has anyone considered doing a no-damage run? It now seems possible to completely avoid the metroid and Mother Brain, and if you cause enough damage to Ridley at the beginning, you can leave without getting hurt.
Has anyone considered doing a no-damage run? It now seems possible to completely avoid the metroid and Mother Brain, and if you cause enough damage to Ridley at the beginning, you can leave without getting hurt.
That would mean yet another category which I do not support...
It was considered at several points, but it will naturally be very slow, because Super Metroid benefits from damage boosting like nearly no other game does. It could be done for completeness's sake, but it won't be remotely as entertaining as a normal run because avoiding damage is not hard nor impressive in this game.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
It could be done for completeness's sake, but it won't be remotely as entertaining as a normal run because avoiding damage is not hard nor impressive in this game.
Maybe it wouldn't be entertaining because it would be slower, but why do you say it's not hard or impressive? It's conventionally impossible to do so even not counting the three areas where you're supposed to take damage to advance the plot. With all the energy the game gives you, it's assumed you're going to take lots and lots of damage. Beating this game without taking any damage at all is unheard of, and that's why I think it would make for an interesting run.
I imagine that like with most movies, some people would like it and some wouldn't. :)
The big problem you'll run into is that the people who know how to TAS Super Metroid probably won't be interested in making such a run, and Super Metroid's not a particularly easy game for newbies to TAS. So finding a runner to make this movie would be nontrivial. Of course you're always welcome to do it yourself.
There's the added issue that if you're going to be skipping the baby Metroid and Mother Brain segments, then you have to use the X-Ray glitch or another OOB glitch that behaves similarly, and if you're going to use that kind of glitch, then you've really no excuse to not use it throughout the game. So this'd just turn into a slightly longer version of the existing glitched any% run, going up until you get to Crocomire so you have the grappling beam to make it to the X-Ray Scope unscathed (I suppose the pre-scope room might be doable with just the ice beam, actually). You'd have a very hard time selling a run that played the entire game normally only to glitch past the endgame.
Pyrel - an open-source rewrite of the Angband roguelike game in Python.
Well, let's count things that (are supposed to) damage you in the NBMB run.
1. Various enemies. Bypassed by killing them beforehand, or jumping/jumpmorphing over. Slow.
2. Spiked room in Brinstar. Bypassed by waiting for a start screen cutscene to load this room in memory. Takes a long time.
3. Pre-X-ray room. Bypassed by horizontal bombjumping through the entire room (slooow), or taking a huge detour to get Varia (to avoid damage in Norfair), and Grapple/Ice beam (to avoid bombjumping). Lots of enemies on the way, so avoiding them will take time.
4. Big Metroid. The ways to bypass it are known, some of them don't even require tool-assistance.
5. Rinka in MB's room. This one might be difficult, because I haven't confirmed if it's possible to shoot it down without touching it.
So it will be for the most part like the NBMB run without things that make it, well, fast.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
Is this doable anyway? I thought you had to kill yourself to make the "skip MB" glitch work. IIRC, you have to cause the game to store some obscure data from the last save point by going back to the title screen. I don't think you could reset to carry this over, and the only way back to the title screen is death.
Nope, Samus is damaged by a Rinka in the opening-credits. GG.
ACTUALLY, that's a script action, not an enemy collision. Samus is not damaged in the cutscene.
... it's just dawned on me that I know way too much about this game.
kwinse wrote:
Kejardon wrote:
Kriole wrote:
Samus is damaged by a Rinka in the opening.
That's a script action; no damage.
... it just dawned on me I know way too much about SM.
Is this doable anyway? I thought you had to kill yourself to make the "skip MB" glitch work. IIRC, you have to cause the game to store some obscure data from the last save point by going back to the title screen. I don't think you could reset to carry this over, and the only way back to the title screen is death.
No, you don't need to die. You just need to have been in that room recently before doing the MB skip, not entering any big rooms from the point you go through that room and the point where you enter MB's room. There are two ways to do this, kill yourself in that room and load a save in tourian, or let the game demo play for about 3 minutes at which point that room will be loaded and shown, and after that you just load from tourian.
Nope, Samus is damaged by a Rinka in the opening-credits. GG.
ACTUALLY, that's a script action, not an enemy collision. Samus is not damaged in the cutscene.
... it's just dawned on me that I know way too much about this game.
It took THAT to make you realize? oO
<Zurreco> if so called professional players cant adapt to every playing field, theyre obviously not that great
I just noticed something while playing a ROM hack (A More Differenter Zebes). I was in Maridia, suitless, and shot a vertically-aligned door while falling onto it. It stays solid while it's opening, of course; I turned during that period and when the door opened, I was instantly at full fall speed, just like with the crumble blocks.
I don't know if this'll ever be of any use, but I thought it was worth mentioning.
Edit: incidentally, 105 missiles and 28 super missiles is not enough to kill Mother Brain if you don't have the charge beam. Even if you restock on missiles after taking out her barriers, you'll be 2100 damage short...
Pyrel - an open-source rewrite of the Angband roguelike game in Python.
Pretty sure that's well-known by TASers. Due to a number of quirks of turning, it's possible to 'hover' above the ground indefinitely and build up speed even though Samus isn't moving. Only really useful when you're waiting for the ground below you to break, since you can't manage any significant motion to the side while hovering.
Despite that though, I don't see it often in TASes. I'm guessing it's because you can get a better vertical position by falling normally and timing it perfectly - I've never measured it but I would guess the game engine would cause this to be true.
kwinse wrote:
Kejardon wrote:
Kriole wrote:
Samus is damaged by a Rinka in the opening.
That's a script action; no damage.
... it just dawned on me I know way too much about SM.
I was in Maridia, suitless, and shot a vertically-aligned door while falling onto it. It stays solid while it's opening, of course; I turned during that period and when the door opened, I was instantly at full fall speed, just like with the crumble blocks.
Kejardon wrote:
Despite that though, I don't see it often in TASes. I'm guessing it's because you can get a better vertical position by falling normally and timing it perfectly - I've never measured it but I would guess the game engine would cause this to be true.
I don't see it often in TASes. I'm guessing it's because you can get a better vertical position by falling normally and timing it perfectly - I've never measured it but I would guess the game engine would cause this to be true.
Anyway, as been said before I'm sure, it's only useful when ther isn't enough room to jump high enough to reach full falling speed before passing through the blocks (and I have also used in one case where it helped minimize lag).
Would shinesparking in a no-damage run be against the rules? >.<
Trained by Cpadolf. Mission: To Perfect.
Hero says: Yeah bro, I almost went super saiyan once
My SM-RBO
Current Project(s):
1)I don't TAS anymore! Pay me!
Presumably anything that'd make your health drop would be against the rules. Keep that 99 pegged!
Edit: oh, yeah, another random thing I noticed: when you have the Hyper Beam, if you morph while firing, sometimes you'll make a partial bomb spread (typically I only get two bombs centered on Samus, so it's not really much of a "spread"). I assume this means that Samus is temporarily considered to have a charged shot ready whenever she fires the Hyper Beam.
Something to do while waiting for the self-destruct to start, I guess...
Edit again: this one's totally useless AFAICT. If you do a bomb spread while underwater, the bombs have a massive range -- but only if you aren't wearing the Gravity Suit. Probably works on the same principle that the Gravity Jump does.
Pyrel - an open-source rewrite of the Angband roguelike game in Python.
Edit: oh, yeah, another random thing I noticed: when you have the Hyper Beam, if you morph while firing, sometimes you'll make a partial bomb spread (typically I only get two bombs centered on Samus, so it's not really much of a "spread"). I assume this means that Samus is temporarily considered to have a charged shot ready whenever she fires the Hyper Beam.
Something to do while waiting for the self-destruct to start, I guess...
could be fun to watch if it happens in rapid succession
It has been a long time since the last progress report, and I was wondering how the any% runs are comming along. Is anyone willing to give a small update?
We are still at phantoon, partly because we have set such high standards as far as not losing ingame time to luckmanipulation goes (making him the hardest part of the run), and partly because I am working on other runs atm. And I don't know how much free time namespoofer has either, though I know he has been making some attempts at phanootn lately. But all motivation just goes down the drain instantly when working on that battle, especially when you already spent two weeks doing it once and then had to restart the run.
So... yeah. I hope that we will get past this obstacle eventually, and when we do (and I finish the main run I am working on now) the progress will probably go a lot faster.
Thanks.
Hmmm, since you mentioned to be at Phantoon a long time ago already, do I understand it right that you guys restarted the run once again? If that is so, may I ask until which point you got in the previous attempt before cancelling it?
We have only restarted once, and we got to botwoon the previous attempt (and where struggling with the luck there yet again, though not as much as with phantoon). The reason for being at phantoon for so very long is also partly the glitched any% update as well as just inactivity due to lack of motivation
Stupidly enough, the reason for the restart was that Ceres clock improvement I found, though we did find some more along he way that properly justified the restart.
Joined: 11/14/2005
Posts: 1057
Location: United States
hey Cp, do you have any rough estimate on your final in-game time? Do you think 22 would be possible at this point?
I've been crunching a lot of numbers lately for this game. I really think that the route I posted a few pages ago, might be the fastest for both in-game and realtime. Though some slight tweaks might need to be made.
hey Cp, do you have any rough estimate on your final in-game time? Do you think 22 would be possible at this point?
I doubt it. To do so about 45 seconds would need to be saved, and I would consider it a huge success if the improvement exceeds 30 seconds.
hero of the day wrote:
I've been crunching a lot of numbers lately for this game. I really think that the route I posted a few pages ago, might be the fastest for both in-game and realtime. Though some slight tweaks might need to be made.
If that would really turn out to be true then the ingame run should probably be obsoleted. The only real reason it was published at all was because it offered an entertaining alternative route (as well as getting 00:23, but that will be attained in the new realtime run anyway), so if the two runs would be even more similar, and finishing with the same showed time at the end there would be little reason to have it left. We'll have to sort this out...
