Hero:
The reason for the slightly slower fight was Spoofer's setup at the beginning, since it required a additional flame shot, and didn't use the first Missile to save some cooldown time for the next shot. That way we were forced to hit his eye a bit later than Kriole for the first time, and only that delayed the fight in the end.
The finishing move had nothing to do with it. :-)
Robot Metroid, created by DMantra (creator of CliffHanger/Eris at m2k2). Hands down the absolute best metroid video. Ever.
Disagree-ing costs a body part from your uhm.. body..
Oh, progress is insanely nice, I'm now at the Red Brinstar Elevator and officially done with the WS. It is completely optimal to known standards, and all the drops were manipulated through minimal door lag. I lit the WS on fire.. Yeah!
Trained by Cpadolf. Mission: To Perfect.
Hero says: Yeah bro, I almost went super saiyan once
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[edit]
Turns out, cpadolf's pattern is still the fastest. I've never considerd frames where you only press the run button. I'll get back on this (and sorry moozooh!)
Wow, damn good job! You've won another 1/3 of a pixel. :)
Can you do the same for the PAL version, just in case?
For PAL it's:
>>>.>>>>.>>>.>>.>>>.(B>)>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>(B>)>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>(B>)>>>>>>>>>(B>)
157.66796875px :)
Here's the rest of the list of "fast" combinations that actually obtained a charge. Doesn't seem to be a distinct pattern, weird game :P.
>>.>>>.>>>>.>>>>>.>>>>>(>B).(>B)>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>(>B)>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>(>B)>>>>>>>>>>>>>>(>B)
is the fastest super short charge (163.9375px). I've brute-forced it with lua :-). lua script
You must have written down that pattern wrong, because when performed, it turns out longer than the one I found by over one pixel.
EDIT: Both the length and the difference between the lengths of the patterns also seems to depend on slopes. I tested the shortcharge in the room before the pillars in LN, and it was 10 pixels shorter or so. I had not observed this before.
EDIT2: Ok, so it turns out he didn't take frames where nothing but B was held, and he's now going to test for that as well. It'll be interesting to see if my pattern holds up :)
Amazing job, Gromba. This is probably the most useful bruteforcing we will ever have for this game. Good luck trying to shorten Cpadolf's version even more with the additonal dash input.
As for the PAL version, just took a look on it, and it seems to have a unusually fast running animation after reaching the 3rd speed level, which is what allowed to shorten the overall charge distance immensely compared to the NTSC version.
With it, you can even get a charge for the shinespark towards X-Ray, something that most likely won't be possible on NTSC without freezing the drainer to extend the platform length there.
>>.>>>.>>>>.>>>>>.>>>>>(>B).(>B)>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>(>B)>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>(>B)>>>>>>>>>>>>>>(>B)
is the fastest super short charge (163.9375px). I've brute-forced it with lua :-). lua script
EDIT2: Ok, so it turns out he didn't take frames where nothing but B was held, and he's now going to test for that as well. It'll be interesting to see if my pattern holds up :)
Your pattern is the fastest! I didn't try any weird input things, so there is a small chance that there is a faster one... but I'm pretty convinced. Pretty ingenious :-)
we need more bruteforcing :D
i think i should learn that lua stuff :(
Mweah, with snes9x.speedmode('maximum') my 2 year old notebook can do around 1200 frames/sec. When you've got something of say 20 frames, and you want to use 4 buttons (say right/up/jump/speed), you got
.
So Saturn is right, that was probably the most useful bruteforcing we will ever have for this game
Mweah, with snes9x.speedmode('maximum') my 2 year old notebook can do around 1200 frames/sec. When you've got something of say 20 frames, and you want to use 4 buttons (say right/up/jump/speed), you got
.
So Saturn is right, that was probably the most useful bruteforcing we will ever have for this game
Be careful with how quickly you write off brute forcing. There are many important problems where the best known solutions are essentially brute force, and many, many really smart people have developed ways to effectively solve them in many cases. Techniques like branch and bound and dynamic programming.
The simple calculation 4^20 ignores these techniques and any domain specific knowledge which can be used to quickly prune unpromising search paths. For example, if you're looking for the optimal path through a room in super metroid you can stop searching any paths where your HP drops if you know there's no useful damage boost in that particular room. Or if you're trying to brute force the kraid fight, there's no need to search paths which fire shots when kraid is still underground.
I'm not saying the whole game will ever be brute forced, but certainly it can do more than 40 frame segments.
Fantastic :D
I asume that you have to be out of supers and PB's in order to switch between grepple and missiles fast enough though, which is unfortunate.
That was not what I was expecting.. :( I foresaw some crazy SpeedBooster-supermissle-follow-draygon-through-the-wall type shit. :(
Still, was completely awesome regardless.
Trained by Cpadolf. Mission: To Perfect.
Hero says: Yeah bro, I almost went super saiyan once
My SM-RBO
Current Project(s):
1)I don't TAS anymore! Pay me!
Nice find, hero.
Just compared it, and it's unfortunately still a bit slower than my 2-round shinespark strategy in the end.
But it's still great to see Draygon can be 1-rounded legally, as I didn't exect it to ever be possible without Plasma and X-Ray. Good job man!
Looks very good, hero.
Question, though: Any particular reason you didn't use Super Missiles? Unless they cause some problem, that would probably help speed it up.
Unless they cause some problem, that would probably help speed it up.
The cooldown time for supers are twice as long, and thus you can't have the grapple beam extended long enough to keep draygon in place the whole time (I think it takes 11-12 frames or so for it to get fully extended, while the cooldown for supers is 20 frames). Either way, as awesome as this trick is, it would not be possible to do in any run, even if it could have been done with supers. Because you have to waste all of your PB's and supers (or missiles if supers where possible to use).
Joined: 11/14/2005
Posts: 1057
Location: United States
Solon,
In regards to the super missiles, Cp explained it well. It's funny, because I think I posted an smv a long time ago which attempted this same thing, but with super missiles. The only thing it did was turn draygon white. Though with better timing and maybe firing the grapple beam twice, it might be possible.
As most of you have already noticed, this tech is unfortunately useless in every type of run. As Saturn pointed out, it is actually slower than the two round shinespark method. I know that with some fine tuning, a spark is possible with my method also. The only problem is that I don't think I can get 2,000+ damage with a spark being used in the center of the room. I might look into that more. Like Cp said, the other problem with this tech is that the super missiles and powerbombs must be at 00.
The only problem is that I don't think I can get 2,000+ damage with a spark being used in the center of the room.
You can. Draygon's position doesn't matter, only Samus' before the spark. If you start the shinespark close enough to him, you can get up to 2250 damage, which is only 150 less than the max possible when Draygon is close to the wall due to the additional crash abuse (but therefore saves you 40 HP of damage from Draygon's body).
Even if you manage to speed up the 1-rounder some more, it would only be applicable to a 100% due to the needed Grapple, and even there, being forced to waste a ton of ammo with the additional 00 restrictions to PBs and the other Missile-type will certainly make you end up slower anyway, as you will require all Supers for a significantly faster Ridley kill.
Joined: 11/14/2005
Posts: 1057
Location: United States
Cpadolf wrote:
Saturn wrote:
You can. Draygon's position doesn't matter
Well, I doubt that you would have enough time to get up to the correct height before he crashes in to you since he is so close.
Thanks, that is what I was trying to say. Draygon will be moving at high speed, so that when I initiate the short charge, I cannot get into the correct position fast enough.
.
So Saturn is right, that was probably the most useful bruteforcing we will ever have for this game
