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Regarding that Shinespark outside of wrecked ship, two rooms before the Statue, it saves 1:17 seconds from the unmorph position, but i didn't discount the time needed for the Super Short Charge before the small passage. If it's possible to charge the shinespark loosing at most 45 frames, it would still save half second, but if you need the health for the Shinespark in the Landing Site, it can be sacrificed for getting some health drops. If not, that will be even better.
Player (89)
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That's awesome. At this point, I have to imagine getting the charge beam early is justified. Cp, do you know exactly how much time it costs to collect early?
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I think it's something like 5 seconds and 8 frames to collect it early, and then you gain 12 frames or so when getting the E-tank under Charge. So just under 5 seconds.
Agare Bagare Kopparslagare
Player (89)
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Thanks for the clarification cp. Another thing to consider is that having charged spazer/wave will save some ammo against croco. I would imagine that doing a doppler style attack like in the RBO run would allow 4-5 charged shots to occur within the fight. At 180 a piece, that's a decent amount of damage inflicted.
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Cpadolf wrote:
A quick test suggests that the landing site wrap around should save about 1:40, though you need 1 more E-tank to do it (this is probably not a problem). So early Charge does look pretty good now.
Is there any smv, cp? if so, could you post?
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Sure. It's not much to behold though. Smv
Agare Bagare Kopparslagare
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Thanks, man! I was just curious about how it would look like. It seems the next run will be quite different of what most people thought it would be. It's good that you can get the charge beam without any addiction of a door transition too.
Player (89)
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If we find a better position, it would probably be faster to simply charge the shinespark when you initially start entering the door to the landing site. Charge the shinespark, turn around and fire the charge beam, then you can run with full momentum towards the direction of the gauntlet and release the shinespark on the way down.
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Don't know if it would be possible. The problem is the spot you have to shoot to open the door is close to the right door, so if you charge the shinespark there, it will take much time to run to the ledge and then there is the problem of the distance from the spot Samus would jump to the spot where she activate the shinespark. As you have only three seconds to activate the shinespark, i'm afraid you wouldn't have time enough. There's a spot close to the door, the way we do on realtime, but you would need a small jump to make the beam go in the right position. A short charge could be done while reaching the spot where too jump, and then a run to the left. I'll try to find an old smv. Edit: Here is the way it is done in realtime. Btw, after recording it i realized i was using Plasma instead of Spazer, but it's probably the same spot. Also, the jump probably can be done lower or maybe it doesn't even have to be done. I'm not familiar about this tasing stuffs.
Joined: 11/26/2010
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Nice find Hero!!!!!!!! I didn't even think it was possible with charged spazer/wave. I developed that same Wrap Around about 2 years ago with Charged Plasma/Wave but, I just couldn't find a way with Charged Spazer/Wave. The way you did it is similar to the way I initially found it with the Plasma/Wave. I wonder if you can do it the way we do it now on console but, with Charged Spazer/Wave instead? Here's the video of how we do it on console if you haven't seen it before. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6yHIYqXRhY&feature=channel_video_title
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Thanks man. I am not sure, but I think getting wave/spazer has much less spots that work when compared to plasma. So for console conditions, I would have to advise against doing wave/spazer wrap shots. Also, here is a new strategy for green brinstar. It is not optimized, as I feel that even more speed can be accumulated here ad avoid the need to use the morphball. Overall this could save up to 20 frames: http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1997116695/green_cwj_door.smv
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Your welcome!!! Yea I was just trying to find it back then on console to see if it could be useful for TASers. There is no real advantage for console with Spazer/Wave Wrap Around shots. Anyway I couldn't find it in real time so I wasn't sure if it was possible even for TAS conditions. So I'm really glad you found it cause that silences my doubts. Also there might even be a closer spot to shoot because of a jump to save some frames which is way I posted that video. I doubt it for some reason though because of the way the Spazer/Wave is but, that remains to be tested. Anyway nice .smv!!!! I think I remember that CWJ being discussed not long ago. That would be nice if more speed can get you all the way over without balling. Either way its a good amount of frames saved regardless.
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Btw, now that early Charge Beam has some chance of happening, that pseudo Screw + Charged Shot has more chances of beeing usefull. Though i didn't think about anything yet. Also, something i was trying but couldn't find yet: When going to LN norfair, two rooms before the LN elevator, the room with the blue gate, it should be possible to land a power bomb next to the gate, in some spot where it would reach the yellow door, so you'd have no delay when you reach the ground. The blast seems to even reach the door sometimes. I don't know much about technical issues involving the game, so maybe you guys could find the magic spot for this to work (if even possible). Edit: Damn, i just realized that the last link i posted is not openning. Reason is i copy pasted the wrong information and didn't notice. I'll post the smv when i get home. Though, as hero and forensic said, it could not be the same spot for Wave/Spazer. Edit 2: Btw, i did a small test using the charge beam to break the blocks behind the chozo statue in ws gravity room and compared it to Saturn's strategy. Saturn's strat was 9 frames faster. The way i did is probably improvable by some frames, i just don't know if it's possible to gain enough to be at least equally fast to Saturn's strat and avoid the PB option. Here is the smv i compared to Saturn's. Edit 3: Managed to make the Charged Shot option 3 frames faster, so now the difference is 6 frames. The smv is already updated. Edit 4: Don't know if you guys knew about it or not, but it's possible to keep a charged shot while morphed for some time without desabling the Bomb. I think it doesn't work if you have spring ball though. Anyway, don't know if it would be usefull but here is the smv. Edit 5: Just an addition to the information i posted before regarding the comparison between Saturn's Strategy and the Charged Beam: Although Saturn's strat is faster by 6 frames (maybe less if better optimized), it is slower 7 frames due to the lag caused by the Power Bomb. Edit 6: Here is a "maybe" better spot for the wrap around in the landing site. This time recorded using the Wave/Spazer. I get the wrap around in the fourth attempt, be patient. Edit 7: Here is a better example of the wrap around. It seems you need a specific position and some falling speed/forward speed for the beam to go in the right angle. Don't know if this would be faster compared to the way Hero found, but it's worth testing.
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Nice Reeve!!! I thought that Wrap Around might be possible from that position. I'm sure it would save a few frames as well!!! Also that Charged Morphball thing was really cool!!! I wonder if it has any uses?
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Eye Of The Beholder wrote:
Here is a "maybe" better spot for the wrap around in the landing site. This time recorded using the Wave/Spazer. I get the wrap around in the fourth attempt, be patient.
Tested this out and managed to get it about 30 frames faster than my initial test (and although that was improvable, it's definitely not improvable by 30 frames). Theoretically it should be possible to do a jump that's one frame shorter, or jump slightly earlier, but your vertical position has to be incredibly precise, and the lower you jump the better your position must be. The minimum falling speed you need is 2.5120, and with that speed your vertical position has to be greater than or equal to 363.60416, but less than 363.65535. I got extremely close at one point (1/16th of a pixel away), which would have saved another 3 frames, but had no luck getting closer. It should probably be possible to shoot from an even earlier position with a much higher jump, though at that point the jump might have to be too high to save any time (if such a spot exists at all). Anyway. Smv. I also managed to improve your test at the Gravity Statue by 7 frames, so it's faster than Saturn's strategy. Smv
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Cpadolf wrote:
Tested this out and managed to get it about 30 frames faster than my initial test (and although that was improvable, it's definitely not improvable by 30 frames). Theoretically it should be possible to do a jump that's one frame shorter, or jump slightly earlier, but your vertical position has to be incredibly precise, and the lower you jump the better your position must be. The minimum falling speed you need is 2.5120, and with that speed your vertical position has to be greater than or equal to 363.60416, but less than 363.65535. I got extremely close at one point (1/16th of a pixel away), which would have saved another 3 frames, but had no luck getting closer. Anyway. Smv.
Awesome, if Charge Beam early was not justified yet, now it is for sure.
Cpadolf wrote:
I also managed to improve your test at the Gravity Statue by 7 frames, so it's faster than Saturn's strategy. Smv
I wished so bad this strat would be faster! Amazing Job!!!
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Cp, did you try charging the bomb spread before getting picked up by the chozo? It allows the bombs to drop to the floor right after being released. I think it should be much faster than the strategy in the smv you posted. edit, here is a very unoptimized demo: http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/244893504/statue_spread.smv well, the bomb timer is much slower on the spread, so maybe it is not faster :/
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I think it will be slower to charge your beam before the Chozo after the PB as well. Also would it be faster to PB as soon as the Chozo releases you? I believe it would be faster in game though real time might suffer a lot. So never mind its probably not worth the trade off. Edit: Nice .smv's BTW Cpadolf!!! 30 frames is a great improvement for that Wrap Around and it flows a lot better as well!!! Also since the spazer/wave wrap around in Crocomire's lair would be right against the wall from the bottom. Would energy be a concern? If so I know how to hit that door with a charged spazer/wave by the E-Tank. If energy is a concern then just tell me and I'll post an .smv of it for you guys.
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The spazer/wave charge wrap is known for the croco room. I mentioned it a few posts back. You can post a smv anyway. It's always good to have a demo handy. Here are some ideas I had for the maridia tube. I suppose it will save time to open it early, like Saturn demoed in his any% run. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/867265457/KRaid-exit.smv http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/638232781/TUBE.smv
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Nice SMVs dude, though i don't know if the early tube blast would really save time, since you usually charge the shinespark while the Power Bomb is exploding, so you can quickly shinespark up for the Maridia Mainstreet Missile.
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I was just wondering if energy was a concern with the acid since you have to be closer to the wall on that one. I guess that's not a problem though. Sure I'll post it later anyway for the demo collection. Yea the early tube explosion might not save time since you have to charge a Shine Spark for the Main Street Missile anyway. I do like the Kraid exit though!!! How much time would it save?
My name is Forensics.
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I didn't make a full demo of it, so it may interfere with the charging of the shinespark, but it may save 3-4 frames if it were to work out.
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Wow that took forever!!! Here's the Crocomire Wrap Around from above. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1264100721/CrocWrap.smv Anyway yea I can see that charging the shine spark might be a problem with that strategy. Also if I remember correctly Cpadolf said in his Sheet of Improvements over JXQ's run (I wonder why that was removed BTW) that it was faster over all for in game time by blowing up the Tube early but, slower in real time. I could be wrong about that though.
My name is Forensics.
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Hmm, I'm not sure what I meant by that. As far as I remember I never tried blowing up the tube early before (as in doing it after norfair), although I could be wrong seeing as it was over 3 years ago. I might have just been talking about entering the door earlier or something (in a way that would be faster ingame but cause more transition lag).
Agare Bagare Kopparslagare
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Yea honestly I wasn't sure exactly what you meant by that either. I just remember you writing something along those lines. The door thing definitely makes more sense though. Because doing the Short Charge there seems like the fastest way cause you have to wait for the glass to shatter anyway.
My name is Forensics.