Joined: 11/18/2006
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Oh, that's a good point about the backpack, I forgot you had one for the Mantis. That totally makes sense. I'll have to see exactly how much time it would take to get the launcher from lvl 5 vs lvl 4, and see if it is a big enough difference to negate the manipulation I'd have to do with ammo spawns at the mantis. You're probably right that it would be best to have the extra ammo, since grenades do the second most damage per time spent reloading (95hp/ 24 frames before another round is fired, ratio of 3.96). Explosive shells are first with a ratio of 4.17, so I'll probably try to manip some more of them for the mantis instead of using the pulse rifle... Anyways, that's a long way off.
If you would be so kind, I'd love to see which walls you were able to boost out of, just for me to play around with and see if I can figure out how they work a little better (for whichever levels you found them in). I know what you mean about getting boosted in the wrong direction, with the one in level 7 you get thrown immediately backwards if you're too low. I haven't tested whether it's possible to get thrown sideways some yet.
I might be able to kill the 1st priest in level 5 somewhat faster, but that door does open up pretty slowly. I may end up running over to the switch on the left side of the room to open the path that I need to take later on in the level, just so I don't have to wait for it when I need it.
I'm almost positive I've had nukes spawn when playing on my 64, but I'll check that out too.
EDIT: Nope
Thanks for the food for thought nfq, you certainly are masterful at route planning for this game.
EDIT: Something I just found out playing around with the campaigner that I didn't know is that his shield that protects him from explosives damage disappears at points, and seems to fully disappear when he's down to around 2000 HP. I know you didn't really try too hard on your campaigner fight, so I'm unsure if you knew about this (you probably did), but that opens the door for grenades and rockets (although they're super slow at firing). Nuking him still does nothing though:(
Joined: 6/13/2006
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looked real good, and tight... and I finally got to see those wall glitches you were talking about. Although I still couldn't make sense and missed the walls you boosted out of. Oh well.
I like how this is fast, but not as fast as the Duke Nukem TAS where things really are too fast for the eye to follow. This is good stuff, keep it up!
Joined: 11/18/2006
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I didn't boost out of any walls in this one, the only known application for wall cannons are in level 6, and possibly level 7. But I hope you liked the walking on water:)
Joined: 6/13/2006
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Oh, the Jesus jumping I knew from previous movies, but it always makes me smile.
Should a different plugin be used? jabo's 1.6 made me see through walls a ton (which was helpful when you were wall glitching, because I could see what you were doing easier) and I know the textures in this game were crap, but it couldn't have been as bad as what I saw an hour ago when I watched it....
Joined: 11/18/2006
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I remember being able to see through some walls using an actual cartridge, but definitely not to the extent that are visible in this movie, you're right. So far I haven't tried testing other plugins, but I have made a conscious effort to stay far enough away from most walls when strafing to avoid the "see-through" effect. Whether the run gets encoded with Jabos or not doesn't matter to me at all, but I'm not going to mess with it now, since the walls are emulated correctly, other than close-up views. Thankfully, this game doesn't suffer from desyncing at all, so swapping plugins around after it's all finished shouldn't be too big of an issue.
EDIT: The deathwarp in level 4 is looking like a wash. I did some calculations on the route deviations to see how long various events take, and here's what I came up with:
Getting the grenades in level 4: roughly 3 seconds
From the 2nd key of level 4 to the checkpoint: 11 seconds
Death warp: 4 seconds
Getting the grenades in level 5: roughly 14 seconds
So the current route takes 14 seconds total (3+11). The new route would take at least 15 seconds(14-3+4). With allowing for some errors in measurement, it looks like it would be exactly the same length to slightly faster to keep the current route. However, if I find a way to either wall-jump or wall cannon to the first key in level 4, I'd certainly incorporate the deathwarp since I wouldn't have the opportunity to get the grenade launcher. I'm going to wait a while before continuing to do some more testing, especially the spots nfq mentioned with the wall cannons that may be of use.
I like how this is fast, but not as fast as the Duke Nukem TAS where things really are too fast for the eye to follow.
it's also because duke nukem 64 often has a pretty low FPS compared to turok which runs at 30fps mostly.
Should a different plugin be used? jabo's 1.6 made me see through walls a ton
it's normal. it was like that in the actual cartridge too.
mmbossman wrote:
The swimming in this game sucks balls, but I was able to get all my swimming times at least respectable, although they look slow at some points.
complex things like swimming is easier with a controller. and you shouldn't release the strafe button when you swim, only the forward button. it's logical because the strafe button doesn't create the same effect as the forward button underwater. study the input of my run when i'm swimming to see how i do.
If you would be so kind, I'd love to see which walls you were able to boost out of, just for me to play around with and see if I can figure out how they work a little better (for whichever levels you found them in).
on level 4, just turn right at the beginning. on level 3, it's at the top when you go all the way up the stairs from the right side. might work from the left side too.
the one on level 2 was kinda hard to do and i didn't find it by myself but i read about it on a page where people post 'cheats' for games. it's here on this object where you see a small glitch at the map: http://img57.imageshack.us/img57/6903/asdng8.jpg
i'm sure there are more, but i don't remember if i found any more. it's probably hard to try and find stuff like that using a keyboard...
I know you didn't really try too hard on your campaigner fight, so I'm unsure if you knew about this (you probably did), but that opens the door for grenades and rockets (although they're super slow at firing).
yeah, the shield 'seems' to disappear completely sometimes, but for me it also seemed to come back when i tried to use grenades.
in any case, the fastest way to kill him would probably be explosive shells. it shouldn't be too hard to manipulate to get those boxes, like you did on longhunter.
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Could you upload a map image of which crease you're talking about in level 4? I've tried to find any sort of sticking, but have only been able to find a (seemingly) useless sticking point on the right side of the climbable wall behind the level entrance. I haven't been able to get stuck in either of the map aberrations to the left of the entrance, but I knew that already.
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There hasn't been any work on this for a little while because I was trying to test all the possible places for wall boosts and wall jumps. Ya know the walkway with the two cliffs on each sides? You can get to them with wall jumps, and on the right side there's a place to get stuck where you suddenly rocket up into the air so far that you can't see the ground. Using RAM watching I found the point where I stop moving upwards, and firing a shot causes me to shoot out. Unfortunately, even coupled with a perfectly timed jump it only gets me back to the start of the walkway. So at this point, I'll still do level 4 before 5 because the other route proved to be a wash, and I don't want to have a level, then a boss, then a level, then a boss, then 4 levels of running before the last bosses. Splitting it up some will keep it a little more entertaining I think.
I'm almost done with all of my other projects (like 90% on one, 80% on another, and 33% on a short third one), and I'm not starting any others until this is done. I'm entirely tired of it staring at me from my desktop.
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This is now the only project I have to work on now! And I'm not starting another until this damn thing is done and submitted. Depending on interest, I may post further WIPs, or I may just PM them to those who want them to keep the last 2/3 of the run new for others.
Out of curiosity for that walljump launch thing, did you check to see if you stop moving upwards once you fire, or if different weapons send you moving at different speeds? If it doesn't immediately halt your upward velocity to shoot that would be a way to get much further than waiting till the peak of the jump.
Also just wanted to say I read most of this thread and found it interesting how you started out and gradually became quite good at memory watching. I have no experience at memory watching emulated games but I've dealt with it plenty on PC games and so I know it's not always easy to find what you're looking for. You almost always improve your abilities when you refuse to take no for an answer.
Joined: 11/18/2006
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Unfortunately the weapons don't seem to have anything to do with the wall-jump, except for the ejection process. My theory: At certain points in some very select walls, Turok is able to get stuck between polygons. In normal walls that just means he stays there suspended in air, but can't do anything. Other walls have a slightly tilted (not straight up and down) configuration, that allows him to jump. And the third types of walls have offsetting polygons on either side, which means that when Turok is standing on top of one, he's in the middle of another. The game doesn't like this, so it tries to eject him one polygon upwards. However, this usually gets him stuck in the polygon right above on the other "side" of the wall, which repeats the process. On the other walls, it's easy to get out of them by just moving the controller in a different direction. However with the wall cannon walls, this doesn't do anything. I believe that when a gun is fired it pushes Turok backwards just a slight amount, so that he's now stuck in the front part of the polygon, and the game ejects him sideways. So in effect the gun acts as a trigger to the movement, but doesn't actually provide a significant amount of propulsion.
As for memory watching, I was entirely opposed to it when I first learned the very bare bones of it when I was working on my Vectorman run. I thought it would make runs boring. However, I quickly realized I was being massively retarded for not using it as much as possible, because not only does it make working with a game faster, it gives you something tangible to look at instead of just a sprite. The only reason I didn't start doing it for this game sooner was because I didn't know of any good RAM watcher for Mupen. But L-Spiro is awesome, so that's solved.
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The first 4 levels of Turok are completed in under 16 minutes. WIP available via PM for those who are interested, but I won't post a direct link so that those who want to wait to see the whole run aren't tempted.
Joined: 11/18/2006
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Making some good progress, level 5 is done, and the Mantis boss has been turned into a big ball of bug goo. I am now done with 5 levels and 2 bosses, and have 3 levels and 2 bosses left to do. I am currently 80 seconds ahead of nfq's rejected run, and at the entrance of level 6 I have a total time of exactly 20 minutes. I'm on pace to finish up somewhere between 36 minutes flat and 36:30. As before, if you wanna WIP, just shoot me a PM.
Hooray for the triple post!
Joined: 11/18/2006
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Just as a quick update, I didn't work on this much the last week and a half, but I'm back on it, and I'm halfway done with level 6, just before the first key. At this point I'm 60% done with the game (although it seems like it should be a lot more), but I'm just trudging along. Still hoping for a late February release, but depending on school it may be early March. Thanks to everyone who has shown interest in this, it's kept me going through the rough parts. WIP for those interested after level 6 is done.
Joined: 11/18/2006
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Level 6 is done, total time now is a smidge over 25 minutes. Extrapolated out, this run will likely be right around 36 minutes and 30 seconds, so that leaves another 11 and a half minutes for the final two levels. And unfortunately, they're (IMO) the most boring ones of the game. But I'll try my best to make them worthwhile. I have a list of 3 people signed up for the WIP, which I will be sending a link out for via PM tomorrow, so if you'd like to be added to the mailer, just shoot me a PM:)
This is now the only project I have to work on now! And I'm not starting another until this damn thing is done and submitted. Depending on interest, I may post further WIPs, or I may just PM them to those who want them to keep the last 2/3 of the run new for others.
