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Posted: 11/19/2004 2:52 AM
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Avin
Joined: 9/29/2004
Posts: 39
I also really like how you're doing it now. It keeps me very interested in daily checking your progress and looking at the levels as you're doing them. By doing one level at a time, I can really focus in on that level, and have my mind geared to that level specifically, the things you've done recently and what you'll be doing in the near future, to think of ideas to help you in any way I can, and I'm sure most others who have been following this thread are doing the same. However if you did a really fast run of the entire game, I would be completely overwhelmed. I would watch the entire thing once and not really want to go through level by level and look for improvements. I also wouldn't appreciate each level nearly as much, because I probably wouldn't pay as close attention to the improvements others have suggested. So that's a bit of a selfish reason on the part of myself and probably others who are keeping up with this thread, but it's probably valid to the progress of this run, because as you mentioned, our support has been encouraging you, and I think the current one level at a time method is the ideal way to have most of us continue to give as much feedback as possible. Also, for yourself, I don't know about you, but I personally think that if I were you, I would like the one level at a time thing because I could personally master the ins and outs of that level completely, and after a few days per level, pronounce that it's "done" and move on to the next. If you do them all at once, though, you have the burden of having to remember every detail of every level all at once.
Posted: 11/19/2004 6:23 AM
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VIPer7
Former player
Joined: 10/17/2004
Posts: 226
Location: Bonn, Germany
@Michael: Have a look at Vanilla Dome 2a, there I jump before the drop. If I don't jump, then Mario starts running and reaches the edge a bit faster; if I jump, then Mario starts falling earlier. The problem are those fish, if I reach them at a "bad time" then there's no way passing them without losing the shell. So it doesn't really matter whether I enter the water 1 frame sooner or later... And I thought it'd be better if I do things a bit different each time, so it doesn't look like I just copy+pasted the first part of this level (which could have been done quite easily...) @Jeffrey, TNSe, Avin: I also prefer the method how I've been doing it so far. It just feels better to know (or at least think) that a level is perfectly completed and I won't have to deal with it again later. The only problem is: I can't expect everybody to check this thread on a daily basis. And then it can happen that somebody mentions an error 7 days after the movie for this level was first published... No offence Michael, but I just wasted one day with the result of a 0 frames improvement, that's kinda frustrating :( Doing a semi-fast full run now sounds attractive, just because I'm really looking forward to some levels, but I guess in the end it would just be a waste of time and maybe also destroy my motivation to do it all again later. So, I'll continue like this, and just hope that everybody watches the video and points out errors or possible improvements as soon as they can...
Posted: 11/19/2004 2:15 PM
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Bobix
Joined: 11/2/2004
Posts: 5
Location: Vasa, Finland
I like the way you are doing it now, one level at a time. It has become a part of my daily routine to check this thread and watch a new level every now and then. Keep up the motivation man! =)
Posted: 11/19/2004 3:28 PM
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VIPer7
Former player
Joined: 10/17/2004
Posts: 226
Location: Bonn, Germany
I completed the Vanilla Ghost House, you can watch the video here I completed the first room 1 frame faster, doing a kamikaze flight instead of releasing Y before entering the door. I think that's the fastest way to finish this room. In the second room I did the spin-jump flight, bouncing off 4 green bubbles. I couldn't find a way to free and pick up the P-Block in one go, so that slows me down quite a bit. If somebody has an idea or knows some glitch, please post here! I will also do another check if normal flying would have been faster (although less entertaining...)
Posted: 11/19/2004 6:12 PM
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VIPer7
Former player
Joined: 10/17/2004
Posts: 226
Location: Bonn, Germany
so... normal flying is indeed faster than spin-jump flying, I can free the P-Block 32 frames faster. But then it takes a lot longer to grab the P-Block, so in the end the normal-flying run is a poor 2 frames faster than the spin-jump run (everything else was done equally). So I ask everyone to please look at both videos, and tell me which one to pick: Version 1: Normal flying; enters the second door at frame 2007 Version 2: Spin-jump flying; enters the second door at frame 2009 Personally I like the 2nd version a lot more, because it looks a lot cooler to bump off those bubbles (I guess some people didn't even know you could bump on them...), and it's only 2 frames (= 1/30 second!) slower... please vote! (or of course if somebody can think of a method how to grab the P-Block faster in any of the versions, please post it here!)
Posted: 11/19/2004 6:42 PM
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Gigafrost
Former player
Joined: 5/3/2004
Posts: 366
Yeah, the spin-jump flying looks better. About the only thing I could think of that might help the normal would be flying over the bubbles and coming down to cape the side of the blocks, but it's difficult for me to tell how feasible that could even be. Megafrost also wonders if going counter-clockwise to get the P-block helps in the normal fly...
07-24-2009: 2595 anime DVDs and counting...
Posted: 11/19/2004 6:57 PM
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TNSe
Emulator Coder
Joined: 10/9/2004
Posts: 453
Location: Norway
I like the spin jumping :P
Posted: 11/19/2004 7:04 PM
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OmnipotentEntity
He/Him
Player (36)
Joined: 9/11/2004
Posts: 2630
I'mma vote for the spin jump. Suggestion for a little more speed, (I don't know if it will work though.) The platform with the P-block, you seemed to land a little late. Would landing earlier and jumping earlier help any? (ie cape both in one jump? or land on top the block and destroy it caping the prize block. Then jump back up to grab the p-block.)
Build a man a fire, warm him for a day, Set a man on fire, warm him for the rest of his life.
Posted: 11/19/2004 7:37 PM
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Avin
Joined: 9/29/2004
Posts: 39
I love the spin jump flying! If it's a cost of two frames, go for it! I am one of those who did not realize that it was possible!
Posted: 11/19/2004 8:12 PM
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Michael_Fried
Former player
Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 1107
For the spin jump flying version, it looked like you could have fallen down a little farther to the right on the P-switch when you picked it up instead pressing left to slow down so much. As for which is more entertaining, I thought the normal flying looked cooler, but the spin jump flying was also good so I wouldn't mind you choosing it if you can find a way to improve it by more than 2 frames.
Posted: 11/19/2004 8:30 PM
(Edited: 11/19/2004 8:43 PM)
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VIPer7
Former player
Joined: 10/17/2004
Posts: 226
Location: Bonn, Germany
I just found a way to do the spin-jump flying 8 frames faster! The problem is that it takes some time till the P-Block is "ready for pick-up"; that means hitting the block as fast as possible has more priority than landing on top of it. So I did a spin-jump under the block (instead of bursting it with the feather). I'll update the movie when I have completed the rest of the level, then I'll try again for the normal version. ---edit--- Here it is. I gained another frame on the "normal flying" version because I could enter the blue door faster (I enter it at exactly frame 2000 now). I'll give the normal version a few more tries, but otherwise I'll stick to this one
Posted: 11/19/2004 8:34 PM
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feitclub
Former player
Joined: 3/13/2004
Posts: 1118
Location: Kansai, JAPAN
I think it looks a little cooler to "normal" fly through and dodge the bubbles rather than bounce off the bubbles. Plus it's faster.
Do Not Talk About Feitclub http://www.feitclub.com
Posted: 11/19/2004 9:17 PM
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VIPer7
Former player
Joined: 10/17/2004
Posts: 226
Location: Bonn, Germany
*cries* Thanks to Megafrost's suggestion (going up to the P-Block clockwise by jumping through the bubble while Mario is invincible) I could improve the "normal flying" method by another 13 frames, entering the door at frame 1994. Somehow 1 frame is lost in the fade-out sequence, so in the end this video is now 5 frames faster than the spin-jump flying So, again, here are the 2 videos for comparison: normal flying, entering door at frame 1994, entering VD3 at frame 3173 spin-jump flying, entering door at frame 2000, entering VD3 at frame 3178 I still like the spin-jump version a lot more, and so far it's also 4 vs. 2 votes for the spin-jump, but I guess 6/5 frames is just too much of a difference... I will continue in Vanilla Dome 3 tomorrow morning (in ~ 12 hours), feel free to post your thoughts which video I should continue
Posted: 11/19/2004 9:44 PM
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TNSe
Emulator Coder
Joined: 10/9/2004
Posts: 453
Location: Norway
I change my vote to the faster normal flying one now :)
Posted: 11/19/2004 10:27 PM
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Avin
Joined: 9/29/2004
Posts: 39
The way you do it in the normal flying route is now probably more impressive, unfortunately, even though I do still like the spin-bounces better. Maybe in the World 7 ghost house you can do the spinjump flying? I would like to see spinjump flying for at least one level in the movie, since it's something I hadn't previously known about at all.
Posted: 11/19/2004 10:49 PM
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VIPer7
Former player
Joined: 10/17/2004
Posts: 226
Location: Bonn, Germany
I just tested it out, in Valley Ghost House the Spin-Jump flying would be 14 frames slower than normal flying...
Posted: 11/20/2004 12:09 AM
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Gigafrost
Former player
Joined: 5/3/2004
Posts: 366
Yeah, for some reason that small modification makes the normal flying look better...
07-24-2009: 2595 anime DVDs and counting...
Posted: 11/20/2004 3:08 AM
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feitclub
Former player
Joined: 3/13/2004
Posts: 1118
Location: Kansai, JAPAN
Wow, regular flying got a lot better, and I liked it before. I love invincibility abuse!
Do Not Talk About Feitclub http://www.feitclub.com
Posted: 11/20/2004 3:09 AM
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OmnipotentEntity
He/Him
Player (36)
Joined: 9/11/2004
Posts: 2630
By the same token, have you tried the spin jump counterclockwise? (That bubble could be irksome though) But the normal flying looks cleaner than it did. If you're conflicted about it tomarrow morning then toss a coin.
Build a man a fire, warm him for a day, Set a man on fire, warm him for the rest of his life.
Posted: 11/20/2004 1:06 PM
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VIPer7
Former player
Joined: 10/17/2004
Posts: 226
Location: Bonn, Germany
Doing the spin-jump counterclockwise wouldn't speed things up, the problem with spin-jump flying is simply that it's slower than normal flying, which means I bump against the P-Block a lot later... So I decided to continue the normal flying movie, sorry Avin, maybe I'll do it in Valley Ghost House, as I have to do that passage twice, and doing it the same twice would be kinda boring. We'll see... Now in Vanilla Dome 3 I found out something interesting. On the second "lava train" I was bored and just ran back and forth a bit, and then realized that after a while Mario was running and I could lift of for flying. So I optimized it and now saved a big deal of time! You can also see a 3UP moon on top of the screen, I didn't know that there was one... After that I fly up and enter the bonus room; I'll now do the normal route and see which one is faster. Getting Yoshi in the fastest way possible will also be interesting... Anyway, here it is. Comments are, as always, welcome! :) PS: I also tried out the run back and forth trick in castle 2, before entering the Morton's room, but there the space is too short :(
Posted: 11/20/2004 2:27 PM
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VIPer7
Former player
Joined: 10/17/2004
Posts: 226
Location: Bonn, Germany
ok I tried the normal route through the lava pools, and it works all fine up to the 4th lava pool, there I just can't find a way to pass the lava without waiting for the very slow "lava train". If there was a way to get over the lava faster, this route might be a bit faster than going through the bonus room... Any ideas? Here it is ---edit--- I tried to do it by carrying the beetle shell with me and then throwing it up and jumping off it, but still not enough :(
Posted: 11/20/2004 2:50 PM
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Gigafrost
Former player
Joined: 5/3/2004
Posts: 366
Is it possible to do normal flying in some way? Other than that, it looks to me like you'd have to wait. Hmmm...
07-24-2009: 2595 anime DVDs and counting...
Posted: 11/20/2004 2:58 PM
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VIPer7
Former player
Joined: 10/17/2004
Posts: 226
Location: Bonn, Germany
Yes, it's possible! :) 2 (!!) frames faster than the bonus room way :P I'll try to improve it a bit more
Posted: 11/20/2004 3:04 PM
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Gigafrost
Former player
Joined: 5/3/2004
Posts: 366
That's cool! Already this level was turning out to be really impressive (I've always used the "lava trains"). Excellent! ^_^
07-24-2009: 2595 anime DVDs and counting...
Posted: 11/20/2004 3:08 PM
(Edited: 11/20/2004 3:18 PM)
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Avin
Joined: 9/29/2004
Posts: 39
On the platform with the beetle and upside down piranha, if you land on that platform by regular flying you can stomp near the beetle to throw it in the air and as it lands, knock it into the piranha plant before it ascends. Then back up and get a running start ... and you can somewhat time your flight to hit the top of the pipe so that you have just enough room to get some downward momentum to get under the lowered ceiling over the lava .. however in my experiments, I haven't been able to get farther the width of four or five blocks width from the end of the platform before I sink into the lava. But maybe you could try it and see if you think it's feasible? The reason killing the piranha plant I think is necessary is because you need to hit your head against the pipe it comes out of, but I could be wrong. Another alternative is to just time it so that it's up when you bump your head against it, which would mean waiting for a moment, and kill the beetle en route. *edit* Using this method, I've gotten right next to the yellow pipe, flying JUST low enough that I can't reach the pipe, but if I were a few pixels higher I think I would be able to reach it. So I'm convinced it's possible, especially since I know a lot less about the exact timings with regard to flying to get Mario to do different things.
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