Former player
Joined: 10/17/2004
Posts: 226
Location: Bonn, Germany
Ok I think I got the best possible result now, you can watch it here. It's 18 frames faster than the bonus room route, and also more spectacular imo, so I'll continue with this one :) Avin, reload the page ;)
Joined: 9/29/2004
Posts: 39
Hah, given the timestamp on your post, I'm guessing you didn't even see my suggestion before you did it.
Former player
Joined: 10/17/2004
Posts: 226
Location: Bonn, Germany
Yeah I figured it out on my own, but nevertheless thanks a lot, your effort is very much appreciated!! I gotta buy some stuff now and will continue the run later today. I'm going to try to jump off the red shell to get Yoshi, let's see how this works :)
Former player
Joined: 10/17/2004
Posts: 226
Location: Bonn, Germany
sorry for being inactive in this thread for a few days. reason: The lava pit after getting Yoshi kinda frustrated me... I just couldn't find a way to fly over it: If I start flying before the first wall, I won't make it over the whole lava (especially the long way up), because with Yoshi you can't fly up and down unlimited like with the normal feather. And the trick I used earlier (running back and forth) doesn't work anymore after I'm over the first hill). After messing around with this a bit, I accidentally hit a spot at the small wall after the lava pit where Yoshi could stand for a very short time. Getting all excited, I tried around a bit, and finally could perform a wall jump. A screenshot proved that I hit the wall at a place exactly 16 pixels above the ground (Bisqwit explained to me that in the SMB series the walljump spots also appear in 16 pixel cycles). Some more tests proved that Yoshi was not needed for the walljump, and I could also do it at another spot which was 32 pixels above ground level. Overly excited, I went to castle #2 and tried to do the walljump at the long waiting place just before the boss door. If I could do the walljump there, it was save about 4-5 seconds probably. But then came the disillusionment: For some reason, the walljump is not possible at that spot. As this is a vertical scrolling level, it was impossible to find out where the 16*x pixels are, so I just did several tries, keeping the A-button pressed for different amounts of frames, and made a screenshot everytime I hit the wall. After a while, I had hit the wall at 17 consecutive pixels in a row, but none of those had been a success... I don't know if it's because those stone walls have different attributes than the normal walls, or because it's a vertical scrolling level, but well... too bad :( Then Bladegash suggested I should have a look at the level in Lunar Magic. I had no clue what that is, but then found out that it's an editor which let's you edit almost everything in Super Mario World. On that Lunar Magic site I also found a Mario hack called "Demo World : The Legend Continues", and well... that's how I spent the last 3 days :P. This hack is just awesome! More than 80 new levels (with 120 exits total), a new world map, new and old enemies from old Mario games, cool secrets, ... You should really try it out if you haven't already!! Anyway, after having beaten TLC I will now continue with my normal SMW run (maybe I'll do a TLC run sometime later?? :P), so don't worry, I didn't give it up, just took a small break :) I just finished Vanilla Dome 3, you can have a look at it here. I have to spend about 15 seconds on the skull train after I get Yoshi, I tried to make them as entertaining as possible. Those beetles I miss on purpose, it looked pretty cool to fly off just in front of them when I recorded it in slow-mo; however I must say it doesn't look so spectacular in normal speed, so I might redo that passage (maybe eat the beetles instead). Before the end I chose the lower route. They are equally fast, but eating those 4 plants in running-speed looks pretty cool and also means 4 coins in contrast to one single dragon coin on the upper route. Comments please (especially if you have an idea how to pass that long lava pit faster!) PS: I will also do some tests how much time it would take to a) ignore Yoshi and try to fly over the whole lava pit (I somehow doubt this is possible) or b) take Yoshi, but jump off him while floating into the lava. I somehow doubt that this would make up for the time that I can save in Cheese Bridge if I bring Yoshi till there, but well I'll test it out, don't worry.
Former player
Joined: 5/3/2004
Posts: 366
Hmmm...I was aware that you would have to wait like that. I guess I'm sort of suprised that it didn't look as bad as I feared! :) At least testing Yoshi vs no Yoshi at this point won't warrant a two month attack, hehehe...
Joined: 9/29/2004
Posts: 39
WOW! Thank you for the link! Demo World is incredibly fun! For speedrun purposes, you could also note that it's possible to "warp" from World 3 to World 7 by using the secret exit from the mushroom house in world 3. According to the FAQ for Demo World, you're only supposed to do that with a blue shell or Lakitu cloud, but I was able to do it without either just by getting Yoshi, then running back and forth in slow motion on top of the mushroom house until I had a running start, and then flying up to where the first blue shell is in the clouds. Although maybe that's not as fast as using the star roads, I haven't tried beating any of the star road levels yet.
Former player
Joined: 10/17/2004
Posts: 226
Location: Bonn, Germany
Ok I tested out if taking Yoshi to Cheese Bridge Area is faster or not: First of all, just flying over the long lava pool with the cape is not possible, the last hill is just too high (or at least I couldn't find a way to do this, if somebody does, please tell me!). If I take Yoshi, fly over the lava as long as possible, and then jump off him just before falling into the lava, it's possible to get over the long lava pool without having to use the skull train. Then this level can be ended ~ 750 frames faster than if I keep Yoshi and use the lava train. Vanilla Dome 4 can also be finished faster without Yoshi, because flying with cape is a bit faster. Here the difference is ~ 90 frames. In Castle#3 Yoshi makes no difference, as he has to stay outside. So, up to Cheese Bridge Area, I could have been ~ 840 frames faster without Yoshi. But it's still not worth it, because in Cheese Bridge Area I can finish ~ 910 frames faster by getting the wings with Yoshi So, unless there is a way to fly over the long lava pool in VD3, taking Yoshi is the fastest way. I continued my video, you can download the newest version here. In Vanilla Dome 3 I did some "optical" tuning, eating all the beetles instead of jumping on/over them (also means a few more coins) In Vanilla Dome 4 I decided to not do the usual "bump on every enemy" flying, but instead eat some of the koopas and spit them out again on other enemies (there's one cool double-kill) In Castle #3 I chose to hit the P-Block and enter the door which leads to the secret room. This way I enter the last room 14 frames faster than by flying over the whole first room. This last room was pretty annoying, because I had to wait very long at several points, there was just no way to get there faster :(. I tried to make the waits as entertaining as possible. The fight against Lemmy looks a bit boring at the moment, I will redo that tomorrow Comments please! @Avin: Yeah the fastest way to finish Demo World would definately be the Star Road, as it leads directly to Bowser's backdoor. And in the Water World Secret you can also just fly up with Yoshi, then jump off him at the highest point in air and grab the blue shell. PS: Sometimes the movie desynchs in Vanilla Dome 3, at the second lava pool. I have no idea why that happens... just restart Snex9x and then it should work
Emulator Coder
Joined: 10/9/2004
Posts: 453
Location: Norway
Your usual high quality there :) Keep it up.
Editor, Reviewer, Experienced player (978)
Joined: 4/17/2004
Posts: 3109
Location: Sweden
>First of all, just flying over the long lava pool with the cape is not possible, the last hill is just too high Thoroughly uninformed and stupid suggestion (I haven't even watched the new vid): If there's a way to get out of the flying animation, perhaps you could wall-jump the hill? I have no idea how the landscape looks here, but anyway.
Former player
Joined: 10/17/2004
Posts: 226
Location: Bonn, Germany
it's a lava hill, you can't wall-jump on that :P and the problem is that I have to lose height before, and then can't get high enough afterwards to fly over the hill (only jumping off Yoshi would get me high enough)
Editor, Reviewer, Experienced player (978)
Joined: 4/17/2004
Posts: 3109
Location: Sweden
Which button turn on the frame position? That would help a lot, now I'll have to explain it. In ghost house, you enter the first door only touching half of it. But the next door, you reach completely before you press up. Has it to do with the P-switch and the coins you need to take? In lava train level: Just after throwing the beetle you fly and land on a yellow pipe, but you lose a lot of speed. Can't it be done with spin flying instead? The place which you had problems with, the lava hill... if it's not possible to fly over it completely, couldn't you start flying halfway through it? Now it looks like you do a regular running jump, which is slower. You were able to work up the speed to fly on a previous raft, but perhaps it's not possible when the raft is tilted like that... Castle: I don't understand your You seem to lose your speed after the P-switch, is this unavoidable? I liked the playing around with the moving floor, much better than just standing around looking stupid.
Former player
Joined: 10/17/2004
Posts: 226
Location: Bonn, Germany
The dot button (.) turns on the frame counter. Pause button pauses the game, then with backslash (\) you can advance a single frame In the ghost house I can't enter the blue door earlier because Mario doesn't stand on solid ground then. Landing on the ground earlier would mean jumping off earlier, but then I would jump without running speed, and lose a lot more time in the end Concerning the passage before the yellow pipe in VD3: Have a look at the first 6 posts here - it took quite some tries till I was just able to just reach the pipe. Spinjump flying doesn't work here, the lava pool is too long and too low... I tried to start flying in the middle of the long lava passage, before the hill, but I just can't get running speed anymore once I'm over the first small hill. I think it has to do with the skulls moving up and down, that slows down too much :( Castle: I have to release the Y-button for 2 frames to jump on the P-Block (and not grab it instead), and that results in the loss of running speed. I tried to grab it and throw it to a later position which is closer to the door, but then it always falls into the water... Here it also looks like I enter the door a bit too late, but once again the problem is the falling speed; Mario has to stand on the ground before entering the door. Nevertheless thanks a lot for your comments, it never hurts to think about certain passages again, I might always overlook some possible improvements
Editor, Reviewer, Experienced player (978)
Joined: 4/17/2004
Posts: 3109
Location: Sweden
Thanks for the (.) tip and the answers. >Nevertheless thanks a lot for your comments, it never hurts to think about certain passages again, I might always overlook some possible improvements A polite way of saying "thank you for wasting my time"? :)
Former player
Joined: 10/17/2004
Posts: 226
Location: Bonn, Germany
no really, sometimes I don't notice an error when I look at the video 10 times, and then at the 11th time I suddenly realize "damn this could have been done faster". And if somebody points me to certain passages, I might already notice the error at the 5th time :) I redid the Lemmy fight, it's looking a lot better now (I'm jumping on the flame in the meantime :D), and also added the Cheese Bridge Area. I ran on the moving platforms as long as possible, to get some extra speed (this saved 13 frames) You can download the updated movie here thx Truncated for correcting the link :)
Editor, Reviewer, Experienced player (978)
Joined: 4/17/2004
Posts: 3109
Location: Sweden
Error. I think the correct URL is http://www.viper7.com/smw/vanillaghost-cheese.smv
Joined: 6/15/2004
Posts: 104
Location: Zürich / Switzerland
Hmmh... maybe it's just me, but the movie desyncs right at the start: Mario just hits the lower of those two ghosty-things. I never had problems playing your movies and I have not changed any setting in my Snes9x. Do others have the same problem? Philip
Former player
Joined: 10/17/2004
Posts: 226
Location: Bonn, Germany
did you try restarting Snes9x? For me the movie sometimes (1 out of 10?) desynchs in the second lava pool of Vanilla Dome 3, I have no idea how this comes... never had any problems in the ghost house though
Editor, Reviewer, Experienced player (978)
Joined: 4/17/2004
Posts: 3109
Location: Sweden
No problems with this video here. Even then old savestates from the previous movie works.
Former player
Joined: 10/17/2004
Posts: 226
Location: Bonn, Germany
Cookie Mountain has been added. A pretty boring level, as I have to fly up in the sky for a very long time. I need to get over that long green pipe, and if I stayed on the ground longer this would only slow me down. At the end I did some cool moves, flying under a piranha flower and then between the sumo koopas (that was pretty hard to time...) I also dropped Yoshi already in the Cheese Bridge bonus area, that saved another 29 frames :) You can watch the new video here
Editor, Active player (297)
Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 7469
Location: Arzareth
Vanilla Dome 3 and 4 are awesome. I don't quite even understand how you jumped on the lava. It didn't certainly seem like you did anything with the cape. Your usage of Yoshi is also very enjoyable watching. In the end of Lemmy's castle, it looked like you falled a little too slowly to the red door. I don't understand how did your green Yoshi suddenly turn into a blue one.
Joined: 5/3/2004
Posts: 1203
He threw the clutch on the cape the moment he was going to hit the lava. It's really obvious when he does it with Yoshi because you can see Yoshi straining. The animation doesn't change at all when he's doing the screw attack flying, so it looks mysterious. As for Yoshi, I really don't know much about the game, but since he didn't do anything unusual there, it's probably safe to assume Yoshi turning blue is by design, that is, he turned blue by virtue of the magic wings, and it is intended as a reward in the game.
Joined: 8/31/2004
Posts: 298
Location: Falun, Sweden
Nice VIPer7. I didn't see anythink to coment right away but there is a little thing. Could you link to a full version of the movie upp till you enter cheese bridge the 2nd time? Just out of curiosaty I mean. (GAH! I never learn, is it mean or meen?!)
Bein' away for like five years, and not a single new post in the ZSNES forum... :'-(
Former player
Joined: 3/19/2004
Posts: 710
Location: USA
mean On topic: Keep up the good work >_>
Former player
Joined: 10/17/2004
Posts: 226
Location: Bonn, Germany
@Bisquit, Mazzic, Bob Whoops: Thx for the compliments :) I didn't "jump" on the lava, I just pressed A to fly up again (during spin-jump flight and flight with Yoshi), and I pressed A in the very last frame before falling into the lava (so it looks like I touch the lava :D) In Lemmy's castle I can't enter the door earlier, because that stupid green !-block is in the way :S (no, finishing the Green Switch Palace later would definately NOT be worth it, we're just talking about a few frames here! :P) xebra is right, Yoshi turns blue because of those wings. Then he can fly without eating a shell in the bonus stage, and afterwards he acts just like a normal blue Yoshi @Mazzic: You can download the full movie from reset to Cookie Mountain here. After 24 out of 97 levels, the video is now about 22 minutes long. It also contains 2 small changes (in the Green Switch Palace and Vanilla Dome 1), which lead to 31 frames improvement :) I will now start a new video beginning in Cheese Bridge b. ---edit--- ok here is the new video. Cheese Bridge b was pretty easy, I just lift off as soon as possible and try to collect as many coins as possible, flying through the chains. Unfortunately I couldn't get the 3UP moon, because I'd either have to do a kamikaze flight before the first goal (costing time) or land on the platform after the first goal (costing even more time...) Now on to Soda Lake, this will be a bit more interesting I think :)
Former player
Joined: 10/17/2004
Posts: 226
Location: Bonn, Germany
Soda Lake has been added, you can download the new video here I don't think this can be done any faster, because I pressed the forward button constantly, except for the passage just before entering the pipe, there I had to delay a bit by pressing left for 8 frames; otherwise I would have touched the bullet and lost a lot more time. The jump out of the pipe doesn't matter whether it's long or short I tried to hit as many fish and collect as many coins as possible, except for one passage where I chose to get 1 dragon coin instead of 2 normal coins, because the dragon coin was a lot harder to get. Now on to the star road! :) (here I can compare 2 levels with Alexis Neuhaus)